Beer

[Risker]

Yes, thanks for your efforts Cumin!

[Frosty]

My colleagues gave me lots of veganified bottles of cider today, wuhooooooo!!! :D :D Unfortunately I am still at work, so can't drink them yet :rolleyes:

[Gorilla]

why let that stop you, Frostmeister?! :p

[Cumin]

You da man.

Nice work, Cumipopples!

Thanks mate, but if you ever call me that again, I will have no choice but to call you Stu-pid at every opportunity.
:bandanna:

[Gorilla]

i asked for more info about Westons' labelling change and got the following reply (helpfully titled 'Enquiry About Suitability of Cider for Vagans'!):

The problem that we have recently experienced is that The Major Multiples have prevented the entering of ciders suitable for Vegans on their websites and, as we use a common database, from which we share our product specifications with the Multiples this has meant that we have had to drop the claim from our specifications. A full declaration of all the ingredients we use is made on this database, including, where appropriate, the use of lactic and malic acid. For consistency Westons made the decision to eliminate the declaration “suitable for vegans”. However, we have received numerous comments from vegans and as such we are looking to reinstate the claim on our own labels.

Earlier in the week I confirmed with our Master Cidermaker that our products are suitable for vegans in particular that we have written confirmation from our suppliers of malic and lactic acid to this effect.

The power of the Multiple Supermarkets is very strong and on this occasion has causes considerable disruption. We are very grateful that you contacted us with regards to this matter.

[Risker]

Sounds positive, still isn't quite clear what's happening though.

[Gorilla]

no, but at least we know we can still drink it. :)

[Corum]

One of my favourite Real Ale breweries is Batemans in Wainfleet, Lincolnshire. I've been a fan of their beers for years!!! :D

I am so pleased to find, having got home from the supermarket with two bottles of their finest XXXB and Victory Ale that on the back of the labels are the words "As it contains no fish based finings it is VEGAN friendly"

And there is even a Vegan Society label on there as well! :D

Cheers!

[vava]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A827426

This is the one I remember - the real deal!

[Buddha Belly]

The whole Scrumpy, woodpecker and Westons thing is really confusing. At least now there is clarifacation that we can drink all of them again. In fact i'm celebrating with a few cans now.

Anyone know if Merrydown is vegan? :undecided:

[Frank]

My friend who is a vegan watched a programme on cider making.

After seeing the apples get cartloaded in - insects and all into the process - we can safely presume that no cider is vegan.

We can also say no beer too on that basis.

Or probably anything else you care to think about.

So, I guess we therefore have to go through life knowing that we don't deliberately eat animal life - but that we accept its killed in the process of (or final product) - of many 'foodstuffs' - but we are not aware of it, therefore we are still vegans.

Still doesn't help does it?

Makes the 'may contain milk' arguments less than rosy!

Can of worms time I think....

[Risker]

^ Did your friend also see the bit where they washed all the apples before they were used to make cider? this really is a 'practical and possible' situation.

[Frank]

^ Did your friend also see the bit where they washed all the apples before they were used to make cider? this really is a 'practical and possible' situation.

I don't know.

The point is - nothing really can be 100% vegan can it?

The pickers of the apples, trampling on insects. The trucks driving on them, delivering the apples and killing millions of insects/larger animals each year as their transport hits them/runs over them etc.

Washing an apple does not really help all that much at the end of all of that turmoil.

Were they organic apples? Were they vegan organic apples? - or were millions of insects/other animal life harmed and killed by pesticides?


We need a good discussion thread - 'No true veganism exists - does it?'

[sandra]

I saw a bit of Countryfile on Sunday and they were showing cider making. I saw a lot of tiny flies flying about where they were making it and had the awful thought that some of them probably ended up being crushed along with the apples. :(

[Gorilla]

We need a good discussion thread - 'No true veganism exists - does it?'

this has been discussed on the forum a fair bit before - omnis trying to use the argument of animals being harmed in harvesting against veganism - i don't think it's relevant personally, as Risker says it just comes down to 'practical and possible'

[Mahk]

I saw a bit of Countryfile on Sunday and they were showing cider making. I saw a lot of tiny flies flying about where they were making it and had the awful thought that some of them probably ended up being crushed along with the apples. :(

Frank's right. Preserving all animal life, especially the very small such as insects, worms, and even mammals such as field mice, is impossible in our industrial world and population sizes. The world of large scale crop production uses many machines such as this 16-row-wide corn plant combine which pulverizes everything in its path, field critters included.
http://www.toytractortimes.com/october05/lexion/images/septle17.jpg
People may naively think, "But I'm sure the field mice and baby tree frogs hear the approaching machine and know to run to safety". Bull crap. They live on the ground, can't see what's approaching let alone know what it will do to them like we could due to our height, and even if they did successfully flee they would only return later to discover their homes, nests, babies, and the entire eco-system they rely on for their very existence have all been demolished. Pretty? No, but it is a reality.

Does dwelling on it better the animals? yourself? the planet? NO, so don't do it unless you value developing stomach ulcers!
"I know, lets make a law that all plants and fruits must be hand picked and inspected." - (no one in particular). Yeah, I'm sure that would work.:rolleyes:

[sandra]

Yeah, I know what you're saying is right Mahk..........it still doesn't stop me feeling bad though! :(

[bradders]

there are steps that we can take though, campaign for greater use of hedgerows etc that offer more attractive homes to creatures that might get caught up, emailing the supermarkets en mass might help, it might not but at least we would be trying.

[Frank]

Stella is now vegan.

They no longer use fish finings.

[Risker]

^Is that straight from the horses mouth frank?

[bradders]

Oh please tell me you're not kidding around here, that's fantastic.

[Frank]

Yes.

They confirmed in writing to the Vegan Society.

[bradders]

WOW, that's great, wonder if any of their other products will follow suit?

[Frank]

They may already be.

They have been asked about their other drinks.

I'll let you know when I do.

[Risker]

Yes.

They confirmed in writing to the Vegan Society.

Sorry to be pedantic mate but that's not straight from the horses mouth, unless you work at the vegan society and you spoke to the brewery directly?

(Sorry, I can't help but be a sceptic!)

Assuming it is now vegan, how long do you think we should leave it before it would be safe to buy? :confused: