Fluoride

[Sheila]

I went to the dentist today and they told me that I needed to use a fluoride toothpaste or rinse. I am very confused right now. I have been researching this because for some reason I thought fluoride was not good for you.

There are many, many sites out there that think fluoride is toxic and others think it's a miracle. Currently I am using a natural sea salt paste which I love but does not contain flouride.

Does anyone know the real truth about fluoride?

Thanks,
Sheila

[RedWellies]

I'm afraid I don't know the "real truth" but I too have read the reports that fluoride is toxic. I have also seen pictures that show it damages teeth! I prefer not to risk it. We are exposed to so many toxins, best to avoid those you can I think. Maybe the answer is to eat less sugary foods (and acidic ones too I believe), then your saliva can cope with cleaning your teeth for you! I also read that just brushing your teeth (no toothpaste) really helps to clean them.

[Herbsman]

I try to avoid fluoride. Scientific opinion is divided and it's difficult to find good scientific evidence that points one way or the other. Check some articles in The Ecologist (http://www.theecologist.org), they might shed some light. Personally I think fluoride is completely unnecessary, as are most things we buy - it just exists to make money for the people that profit from producing it.

couple of articles here

http://www.theecologist.org/archive_detail.asp?content_id=390
http://www.theecologist.org/archive_detail.asp?content_id=348 <--- there are no paragraph breaks in this one so it's a bit difficult to read...

[sandra]

Don't they add fluoride to the drinking water in the U.K.?

[RedWellies]

Some areas have it added, Sandra. Also in the US too I think.

[Jesse]

I have erosion on my teeth, and so I started taking fluoride, after that my teeth have been much better no more pains when I eat etc..
I have also read about fluoride being dangerous, but it did help me anyway.

[Sheila]

Thanks everyone for the responses. It's just one of those things that I have a gut feeling saying it's wrong. It's like when I was little and they told me to drink my milk and I knew for some reason milk was bad even though I couldn't put my finger on it at the time.
Sheila

[cvC]

I think that something like eleven percent of the water supply in the British Isles is flouridated and 60% of the American one. Other ways in which people are exposed to flouride is in toothpaste, other dental treatments and some drugs, including anti-depressants such as Prozac and, for anyone going to countries like India to remember, the anti-malarial Lariam, and there are also countries where it is added to salt, including, in Europe, France, Germany Austria and Switzerland. Another way in which, in my view, people are being poisoned is with mercury fillings and something to remember about the white alternatives is that there's at least one type of those that contains fluoride. Below are some quotations from something that I saw at Rense a while ago and which is about a proposal for "all processed food and a large number of raw food commodities in New York" to be fumigated with sulfuryl fluoride, "which breaks down to fluoride in the human body":

"Fluoridation is the greatest case of scientific fraud of this century"
Robert Carlton, Ph. D., former U. S. EPA scientist on "Marketplace" Canadian Broadcast Company, Nov. 24, 1992.

"Regarding fluoridation, the EPA should act immediately to protect the public, not just on the cancer data, but on the evidence of bone fractures, arthritis, mutagenicity and other effects"
William Marcus, Ph. D., senior EPA toxicologist, Covert Action, Fall 1992, p. 66

"The real reason behind water fluoridation is not to benefit children's teeth. If this were the real reason there are many ways in which it could be done that are much easier, cheaper, and far more effective. The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination and control and loss of liberty.

"When the Nazis under Hitler decided to go into Poland, both the German General Staff and the Russian General Staff exchanged scientific and military ideas, plans, and personnel, and the scheme of mass control through water medication was seized upon by the Russian Communists because it fitted ideally into their plan to communize the world. ...

"I was told of this entire scheme by a German chemist who was an official of the great IG Farben chemical industries and was also prominent in the Nazi movement at the time. I say this with all the earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years' research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine--any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person mentally or physically." - CHARLES E. PERKINS, Chemist, 2 October 1954.

Quoting Einstein`s nephew, Dr. E.H. Bronner (a chemist who had also been a prisoner of war during WWII) in a letter printed in The Catholic Mirror, Springfield, MA, January 1952:

"There is a sinister network of subversive agents, Godless 'intellectual' parasites, working in our country today whose ramifications grow more extensive, more successful and more alarming each new year and whose true objective is to demoralize, paralyze and destroy our great Republic--from within if they can, according to their plan--for their own possession.

"The tragic success they have already attained in their long siege to destroy the moral fiber of American life is now one of their most potent footholds towards their own ultimate victory over us.

"Fluoridation of our community water systems can well become their most subtle weapon for our sure physical and mental deterioration. ..

"As a research chemist of established standing, I built within the past 22 years, 3 American chemical plants and licensed 6 of my 53 patents. Based on my years of practical experience in the health-food and chemical field, let me warn: fluoridation of drinking water is criminal insanity, sure national suicide. Don`t do it."

http://www.rense.com/general73/dow.htm

Here are a couple of anti-fluoridation sites:

http://www.fluoridealert.org/
http://bruha.com/pfpc/index.html

[mn_nurse]

You NEED fluoride, just not in large amounts. Consuming too much fluoride can cause fluorosis, but this is with actual CONSUMPTION (not rinsing) of flouride. Subtract fluoride from your diet completely and you will suffer from multiple dental caries and eventually lose your teeth.

[cvC]

My understanding is that flouride is harmful to both the teeth and the rest of the body and that it doesn't need much or to be ingested to have an effect. This is from an article about its use in drugs:

"Andreas Schuld, who is the founder of Parents of Fluoride Poisoned Children headquartered in Canada (http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/), is considered by many at this time to be among the world's leading experts on fluorides. He states, 'IG Farben chemists discovered that fluorides were potent anti-thyroid substances back in the 1930s.'

Following this discovery in Germany, thousands of patients in one clinic alone had their thyroid activity decreased through the administration of minute doses of fluoride compounds. One proven, effective method of administering this anti-thyroid medical treatment was by having the patients bathe in water dosed with minute amounts of fluoride compounds."

http://www.rense.com/general63/flou.htm

[insubordination]

I never used to use fluoride toothpaste but went back to it because I had bad teeth. I'm not sure of the truth.

I know the above post is true. In absence of iodine, the thyroid will use fluoride.

[nervine]

http://thedoctorwithin.com/index_fr.php?page=content.php

http://thedoctorwithin.com/index_fr.php?page=articles/enzymes_longevity.php

Fluoride destroys enzymes..

The only thing that is bad for your teeth is acids. Sugar does fuckall to your teeth. It's the citric acid in softdrinks that will ruin your teeth not the sugar.
Alcaline will neutralize acid so brush your teeth with plain barsoap. Keep one at the side to brush your teeth with. Or use kingfisher's toothpaste. It's made out of nothing but natural stuff. The purple one tastes particularly nice ;)

[creature]

I use a fluoridated mouthwash, on my dentist's advice. My dentist is now happy, so I am happy.

There are arguments on both sides of the camp, but on the whole I'm happy to trust the people whose job it is to look after my dental health.

[Lyns]

I'm not sure about either argument for or against. What I do know is that I have fluorosis, as a result of eating a lot of toothpaste when I was a kid. I just liked the way it tasted! My front teeth look horrible, but I have no cavities. I currently alternate between a fluoride and non-fluoride toothpaste, I just don't swallow any more.

[codebug]

mn_nurse is correct. But a better way to say it is fluoride is the best thing available at preventing tooth decay. If you look at the Periodic Table (http://www.webelements.com/), you will note that most things in Flouride's family (F, Cl, I, & Br) are all good at killing living things. Flouride kills bacteria that attack teeth better than anything else, while Cl, as you know, kills bacteria that attacks people. Iodine is used as an antiseptic (Wikipedia) and Bromine is nasty with human flesh, too (Wikipedia).

The thing to understand is that Fluoride just kills the nasty stuff on our teeth, while the alternatives just clean teeth. Floride is supposed to assist in healing the teeth, too. Stannuous Floride (http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Uses/0,3915,6375|Stannous+Fluoride,00.html) is an even more powerful version of fluoride.

Both sides are correct. Floride is poison, but don't swallow it. Fluoride can save your teeth and there seems to be nothing else does. Please take your dentist's advice and use fluoride. AFAIK, nothing else will improve your teeth's current condition.


You NEED fluoride, just not in large amounts. Consuming too much fluoride can cause fluorosis, but this is with actual CONSUMPTION (not rinsing) of flouride. Subtract fluoride from your diet completely and you will suffer from multiple dental caries and eventually lose your teeth.

[PainterLady]

Fluoride is a scam! It deadens a part of the human brain. Change dentists if he prescribes it! I did and haven't had a cavity in 25 years! My current Dentist is totally against fluoride!

[Tigerlily]

I think your arguments would be more affective if you have some links to prove your point. "Fluoride is a scam!" isn't going to convince most educated people. ;)

[PainterLady]

http://www.fluoridealert.org/

Basically fluoride is a waste by-product of phosphates used for fertilizer. It used to cost Florida (governor Bush) a lot of money to dispose of this toxic by-product, that is until cities across the country started buying it from Florida(Gov. Bush) to put in their water supplies by getting federal grants(president Bush)!

Hopefully most educated people will do their own research. :)

[creature]

Erm, fluoridated water has been around since the 60s, I think. Making it a Bush conspiracy is probably a little bit of a reach.

[PainterLady]

It has been poured into our water more now than ever via Florida.

[Seaside]

Fluoride protects teeth not because it kills bacteria, but because its atomic size is the same as calcium, so that when the teeth lose calcium from their structure, the fluoride replaces it, creating a stronger tooth structure. But putting fluoride in toothpastes and rinses is a waste, since in order to get the protection fluoride provides, you must go to the dentist for a treatment, and then NOT SWALLOW FOR AT LEAST HALF AN HOUR, because fluoride is a poison.
Fluoride is a necessary trace element for bone health, but there is plenty of it in ordinary black tea, occurring in an organic form. The reason why there is so much of it in toothpastes, mouthwashes, and drinking water is because people who make a profit from selling the chemical have convinced dentists, who get even less nutritional education than medical doctors, that fluoride is a good thing to put into these items. If the fluoride found in drinking water and over-the-counter dental hygiene products were capable of doing for the teeth what dental fluoride treaments do, the FDA would not allow it to be sold without a prescription. The FDA, however, does nothing to prevent poisons from being included in food and water if they don't exceed the minimum allowed concentrations. The trouble with this policy is that it does not cover cumulative damage, or the effects of combined toxins. The bottom line is that the kind of inorganic fluoride added to drinking water and hygiene products is a poison. I don't have any links, though, since I get my info from real books written by people who can be held accountable for publishing misinformation, unlike the sorts of things you can find on the internet.

PainterLady, I've never used fluoride either, and my teeth are in great shape! My two younger, non-vegan brothers, however, who rely on conventional treament, have had all kinds of trouble with root canals, gum disease, etc.

[j&k]

Seaside's account of flouride is exactly right. Think of flouride like a medicine. It does work, but it has potential side effects. The risks to date are still somewhat unknown. But much like medicine, we can do fine without flouride provided we take good care of our teeth and eat healthfully.

Flouride does have benefits when needed, much as medicine does, so it is not the most evil thing ever. It just isn't necessary for most people. Flouridated drinking water, however, is a very bad idea for most.

Best,
Josh

[Smoothie]

we don't have flouride in the water, here in denmark. i use a flouride-free toothpaste myself, and haven't had any problems with my teeth. i'm on third year now.. well, as far as i have been able to research, flouride is supposedly making people kind of lazy, and is not that good for your brain. which would be a great liberal conspiracy, if it was known by the people who started putting it into toothpaste, but i don't really care about that stuff anymore. let the stupid ones be lazy:) i just won't put anything into my mouth that is not good for my body and brain.

[Roxy]

This link might be of interest, particularly to those in the USA.

http://www.ewg.org/newsletter/20061129-fluoride/

[Seaside]

Thanks Roxy. I tried to sign, but I keep getting a "page not found" error message when I hit the submit button.