new tech green cars, electric, hybrid etc

[Jamie]

Hi everyone,

I'm starting a thread about new green cars & car technology & advances etc. I was in London recently and walking through Soho kept seeing these really odd looking little cars that were called 'g-wiz' and had the website www.goingreen.co.uk (http://www.goingreen.co.uk) on the back.

So when I got home I looked it up, and these look like the coolest little cars!!! It makes me wish I could have one. Although I'd have to live in central london, have a garage or carport attached to the house/with power, work in central london and not mind spending all the time in traffic to get there (it's got to be more comfy than the tube though surely!)...

I'm also a little interested in the hybrid cars, I'm sure I read somewhere that you can get them to plug-in electric (so you can charge them up to run on elec from the start) too which is great. We are moving to Australia soon and won't be needing a car for a few years but when we do I'll be looking into those.

And a while ago I got an email forwarded with a video of a segment on a BBC show, I think it was Top Gear, of a new technology in development, with only one in existance so far, of a car that runs off of salt walter, but it's very strange in that it's designed with everything in the base of the car and the sides and top are a shell that can lift off and be changed with just the use of a wynch, so you could just change it quite easy and keep the base. It's an intriuging idea although the steering look like it was based on a game console attachment rather than a real car - I don't like that, I think you need to keep game world and real world more seperate!

Anyway that's just a waffle, I'm interested to hear what other people think/have heard about/seen/driven/know etc.... :)

[aubergine]

There was an article in one of the sunday papers lately about the total environmental cost of hybrid cars. Basically they were saying the batteries were impossible to dispose of and were more polluting than internal combustion engines over the lifetime of the vehicle.

What we should be really be driving are Hydrogen powered cars. Truly zero emissions, and the technology exists.

[Jamie]

batteries: really! that's terrible. Hopefully they can sort something else. I think I read that the G-Wiz batteries are fully recyclable but I may be thinking of something else...

hydrogen powered cars - tell me more! :)

[aubergine]

http://www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen/

BMW are pretty much the world leader with this technology

[mango]

Hydrogen is not an energy source. It's a way of storing energy. You need electricity to produce the hydrogen, and you have to get that electricity from some other source. Yes it's clean when you burn the hydrogen, but that's not really relevant. Hydrogen cells are rechargeable batteries, not a source of energy.

The search for green cars is a futile attempt to displace guilt and panic. Human society and the planet are totally screwed and I'm afraid buying a new car won't help. It's just one last desperate marketing ploy by cynical capitalists trying to enjoy a couple more years of hysterical consumption before everything falls apart.

[Jamie]

what would you suggest we do then Mango?

[LittleNellColumbia]

.

[Jamie]

electric scooters, sort of like motorcycles or vespas do you mean, or those ones that are slightly like skateboards with a big pole with the handle coming out of it (sorry terrible description!! :o )

[LittleNellColumbia]

.

[Jamie]

lol :)

[mango]

what would you suggest we do then Mango?
I don't think it really makes much difference at this point. It's gone too far. The only effective solution would be immediately reorganising the entire planet to eliminate gross inequality and create a fair and equitable economy based on local, organic production for local consumption - but it's not going to happen is it? Anything less than that is totally futile.

Trying to work out how to maximise your chances of surviving social and ecological collapse is probably the most realistic attitude.

[nervine]

Check this out:

ftp://141.209.3.26/pub/patriot

If you have any other files you'd like to contribute, e-mail them to
bj496@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu.
------------------------------------------------

FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES

by Robert E. McElwaine


For decades, the various energy companie$ have been COLLUDING with each other, [and probably also with the national and international banker$, governments, news media, "scientific" establishment, and "education" systems], to successfully ignore or even SUPPRESS several kinds of "FREE- Energy" technology. Government intervention is needed to stimulate research, development, and mass production of these technologies.

Free-Energy devices probably do not create energy, but rather tap into EXISTING natural energy sources by various forms of induction. Unlike solar or wind devices, they need little or no storage capacity, because they can tap as much energy as needed whenever needed.

For example, at least three U.S. patents (#3,811,058, #3,879,622, and #4,151,431) have so far been awarded for motors that run EXCLUSIVELY on PERMANENT MAGNETS, apparently tapping into energy circulating through the Earth's magnetic field. The first two require a feedback network in order to be self-running. The third one, as described in detail in "Science & Mechanics" magazine, Spring 1980, ("Amazing Magnet-Powered Motor", by Jorma Hyypia, pages 45-48, 114-117, and front cover), requires critical sizes, shapes, orientations, and spacings of magnets, but no feedback. Such a motor could drive an electric generator or reversible heatpump in one's home, year round, FOR FREE. [Complete descriptive copies of U.S. patents are $3.00 each from the U.S. Patent Office, 2021 Jefferson Davis Hwy., Arlington, VA 22202; correct 7-digit patent number required. Or try getting copies of BOTH the article AND the Patents via your local public or university library's inter-library loan dept..]

A second type of Free-Energy device, such as the "Gray Motor" (U.S. Patent #3,890,548), the Tesla Coil, and the unpatented motor of inventor Joseph Newman, taps electro- magnetic energy by induction from "Earth resonance" (about 12 cycles per second).

During the 1930's, an Austrian civil engineer named Viktor Schauberger invented and partially developed an "IMPLOSION TURBINE" (German name, "ZOKWENDLE"). As described in the book "A BREAKTHROUGH TO NEW FREE-ENERGY SOURCES", by Dan A. Davidson, 1977, water is pumped by an IMPELLER pump through a LOGARITHMIC-SPIRAL-shaped coil of tubing until it reaches a CRITICAL VELOCITY. The water then implodes, no longer touching the inside walls of the tubing, and drives the pump, which then converts the pump's motor into an electric generator. The device seems to be tapping energy from that of the Earth's rotation, via the "Coriolis effect", LIKE A TORNADO. [And it can also NEUTRALIZE GRAVITY!]

A fourth type of Free-Energy device is the "McClintock AIR MOTOR" (U.S. Patent #2,982,261), which is a cross between a diesel engine (it has three cylinders with a compression ratio of 27 to 1) and a rotary engine (with solar and planetary gears). It burns NO fuel, but becomes self-running by driving its own air compressor. This engine also generates a lot of heat, which could be used to heat buildings. [David McClintock is also the REAL original inventor of the automatic transmission, differential, and 4- wheel drive.]

Crystals may someday be used to supply energy, as shown in the Star Trek shows, perhaps by bombarding them with a beam of particles from a small radioactive source.

One other energy source should be mentioned here, despite the fact that it does not fit the definition of Free- Energy. A Bulgarian-born American Physicist named Joseph Maglich has invented and partially developed an atomic FUSION reactor which he calls "Migma", which uses NON-radioactive deuterium as a fuel [available in nearly UN-limited quantities from sea water], does NOT produce radioactive waste, can be converted DIRECTLY into electricity (without energy-wasting steam turbines), and can be constructed small enough to power a house or large enough to power a city or spaceship. And UN-like the "Tokamaks" and laser fusion monstrosities that we read about, Migma WORKS, already producing at least three watts of power for every watt put in. ["New Times" (U.S. version), 6-26-78, pages 32-40.]

Free-Energy technology is in much the same situation now as aviation was ninety years ago. At that time, everybody "knew" that a heavier-than-air machine could not possibly fly. It would violate the "Laws" of physics. All the "experts" and "authorities" said so. Most present "experts" and "authorities" today say the same things about Free-Energy technology. Now we take airplanes for granted (except when they crash). But Free-Energy technology has the added problem of some very powerful VE$TED INTERE$T$, who are trying to prevent its use by means of such tactics as the FALSE ISSUE of "perpetual motion", wide publicity of hoaxes, and even VIOLENCE against the inventors.

In terms of economics, the market has FAILED. Inventors do not have enough money and other resources to fully develop and mass-produce Free-Energy equipment, and the conventional energy producer$ have no desire to do so. The government is needed to intervene. If the government does not intervene, then the total supply of energy resources from the Earth will continue to decline and will soon run out, prices for energy will increase, and POLLUTION and its harmful effects (including the "GREENHOUSE EFFECT") will continue to increase.

The government should SUBSIDIZE research and development by Inventors and universities, subsidize private production (until the producers can make it on their own), and subsidize consumption by low-income consumers of Free-Energy hardware.

The long-range effects of such government intervention would be wide-spread and profound. The quantity of energy demanded from conventional energy producer$ (coal mining companie$, oil companie$ and countries, electric utilitie$, etc.), would drop to near zero, forcing their employees to seek work elsewhere. Energy resources (coal, uranium, oil, and gas) would be left in the ground. Prices for conventional energy supplies would also drop to near zero, while the price of Free-Energy equipment would start out high but drop as supply increases (as happened with VCR's, personal computers, etc.). Costs of producing products that require large quantities of energy to produce would decrease, along with their prices to consumers. Consumers would be able to realize the "opportunity costs" of paying electric utility bill$ or buying home heating fuel. Tourism would benefit and increase because travelers would not have to spend their money for ga$oline for their cars. Government tax revenue from gasoline and other fuels would have to be obtained in some other way. AND ENERGY COULD NO LONGER BE USED AS A MOTIVE OR EXCUSE FOR MAKING WAR.

Many conventional energy producer$ would go out of bu$ine$$, but society as a whole would benefit greatly. It is the People that government should serve, rather than the big corporation$ and bank$.

UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED.

Robert E. McElwaine
B.S., Physics, UW-EC

[Jamie]

Fascinating! :)