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Wildflower
Jan 4th, 2007, 04:23 AM
Hello, I was wondering who here follows or has followed Dr Fuhrman's Eat to Live plan? Basically, this is a plan where you get a majority of your calories from raw and cooked non-starchy veggies, then fruits, then beans, some nuts/seeds/whole grains/tofu/starchy veggies. Dried fruits/juices are only allowed occasionally.

I did do 5 or 6 searches on this topic, and could not find any threads on it other than one by Vagetarian about his new diet that seemed to be this, but it wasn't specifically called Eat to Live and it also died out pretty quickly. J&K - I believe you follow and advocate this plan, so I also searched on threads and posts by you. I did find some with advice to others, but not all of them had this specifically mentioned. Also, you talk a lot about juicing with fruits/veggies, and I thought fruit juices were not allowed on this plan, so either you are a) adapting b) following a rule of freshly juiced is OK - bottled or premade juices are not c) actually following something other than this. :)

Anyway, I was wondering -

1) Any recipe/meal suggestions?
2) How strictly you follow it - do you relax on weekends, etc
3) Have you found it successful for weightloss, increased energy and an overall feeling of health and wellbeing :D

I also just wanted to chat with others following this and see how they are doing!

Korn
Jan 4th, 2007, 09:01 AM
Hi,
Eat To Live is not a vegan diet plan, but Vagetarian's thread is about a vegan diet plan based on the similar principles (but totally excluding animal products). You could eat animal products several times a week and still follow Fuhrman's plan!

A thread about his diet wouldn't make sense on a vegan forum (he's even stressing that you don't need to be a vegan), but a thread about a vegan version of his diet would make sense - and we already have such a thread - here (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10915). We could also have another thread about a veganized version of Eat To Live, but then it wouldn't be about the Eat To Live-diet as such.


Some people seem top believe that his diet is vegan, but here are a couple of Fuhrman-quotes showing that it isn't:


"The average American diet contains about 40 percent animal products, but the first phase of the South Beach diet contains 60 percent", Fuhrman said.
“It should be closer to 10 to 20 percent,” he claimed. “It should be calling for meat every other night or once a day instead of three times a day."



"Another option to consider (if you’re in the mood for animal) is the Turkey Club Wrap. It’s not a very complicated dish, it’s made with turkey, bacon, lettuce, tomato, and cholesterol-free mayonnaise. Now, I have no problem with the turkey so I’m staying with it, but the bacon is history, and “cholesterol-free mayonnaise” is not enticing enough for me to consider, so adios to it too!" "It should be calling for meat every other night or once a day instead of three times a day."

His own food pyramid also shows that this is a kind of diet (unless 'veganized') that is not really relevant for vegans:

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/Fuhrmid.jpg


In short: The diet is not vegan (see the food chart/pyramid and the Fuhrman-quotes above), the doctor is not vegan (he is recommending turkey), the book about his diet is not vegan (it contains recipes using chicken broth etc), so discussing the Fuhrman version of the Fuhrman diet isn't really relevant here, which I'm sure you'll all agree in.

auntierozzi
Jan 4th, 2007, 06:05 PM
Hi Wildflower,
It was reading Dr Fuhrman's book that started me on the way to becoming vegan. The 'Eat to Live' book refers pretty often to The China Study which I went on to read afterwards and that really made a difference for me.
I found the few 'Eat to Live' recipes in the book, pretty dull and Korn's right, they do include egg whites and small amounts of meat. One of the general messages seems to be that we should aim to eat as much veg. as possible in a day and 50% of that raw.

Wildflower
Jan 5th, 2007, 05:36 AM
Gee - sorry Korn. I read about it on fatfreevegan.com, so I assumed most people who followed it were vegan. I was only looking for info on it as I didn't know much about it. :(

I thought I should also add that the food pyramid I saw lists all animal products as off limits - the one you posted was not the one I saw. http://www.fatfreevegan.com/etl.shtml

j&k
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:35 PM
Hi Wildflower! I just saw your post.

In his book Eat to Live, Dr. Fuhrman lays out two approaches to his diet -- one is vegan, and one involves a small amount of animal products.

For purposes of this forum (and my own diet), I will only discuss the vegan version. In many ways, I follow a more strict version of this diet than is mentioned in his book, but I am not perfect and certainly have cheat meals when I am out from time to time.

In terms of juices, he often recommends one ounce of pomagranite juice daily for those who have high cholesterol levels. He also recommends veggie juices that are high in green leafy veggies and low in sugars (but you can use a base of carrot and beet if you wish, and even some apple). And yes, these are freshly juiced.

In terms of recipe or menu selections, I just try and stay as basic as possible for the most part. I make a blended salad every morning for breakfast, as you may have read in some of my other posts. I tend to eat various steamed veggies with a bean dip and a piece of fruit for lunch. And for dinner, I eat another large salad and some more steamed veggies, and some fruit.

A couple things I really like are Kale with tahini. I chope the kale real small, and add in a pot with a touch of water and cover it for a few minutes. Then I add in a tablespoon or two of tahini and a spray or two of bragg's liquid amino's. Another great dip for veggies is a cashew cream sauce. Use a couple ounces of unsweetened unfortified soy milk, add a handful or two raw cashews, some garlic and onion powder, and a small amount of a salt free seasoning like vogue vegebase. Then blend in a high powered blender like a VITAMIX.

I hope this is helpful!

Best,
Josh

Wildflower
Jan 11th, 2007, 04:37 AM
Thanks AuntueRozzie and J&K!

J&K - I did try following a diet of mainly fruits/veggies/beans/tofu for a few days last week, and I have to say I felt very sick/shakey by the end of the day and my stomach was growling all day long - even after I would eat a peice of fruit it would be growling an hour later. I tried adding a handful of nuts and I did have a T of flax on my morning fruit. I also added some avacado.

Anyway, I hope to try it again soon when I stock back up on fruits/veggies/beans....but I am not sure as I felt so sick.

j&k
Jan 11th, 2007, 05:14 AM
What occured to you often occurs to people who start on a very clean, nutrient dense diet. You basically went through what is refered to as toxic hunger. In other words, your body started to detoxify on the eating regimen you started on. I'm not talking about the new wave mystical sort of detox that scams like colon cleanses etc. try and clean. I am talking about the cells in the body ridding their metabolic waste products.

When we eat diets that are less than optimal, or body loses touch with true hunger, which has nothing to do with stomach gurgles or pain. Most of us know we are hungry when we start to feel uncomfortable, get a headache, or experience a sugar low. This is not true hunger, it is detox.

Once we get past the detox, we no longer feel these uncomfortable sensations. Instead, hunger is just a pleasant sensation in the back of the throat, that feels a touch like being thirsty. True hunger also makes wholesome foods taste truly delicious.

So, on Dr. Fuhrman's plan, he recommends eating only three meals a day, and only when truly hungry. This gets rid of the toxic hunger, and puts you in touch with the true hunger.

Hope this helps!

Best,
Josh

auntierozzi
Jan 12th, 2007, 08:10 PM
Hi Wildflower,
I really like "Healing Foods Cookbook - The Vegan Way to Wellness" by Jane Sen. I really appreciate her recipes which I think fit quite well with these ideas. I started out like you and realized that I needed more rice, lentils and bread etc..I think that you will be able to adapt to what is right for you. (Sen does put honey in some things which is surprizing but you can use other healthful sweetners when needed.)

Wildflower
Jan 13th, 2007, 04:24 AM
Thanks a lot J & K and Auntie Rozzi. :)

J & K - I am not sure about the whole detox thing...I think it is true that when you start eating differently, your body does need to "re-adjust" it's insulin levels, metabolism, etc, so I guess that could be equated to a "detox" of some sorts such as you mentioned; different from the whole colonic kinda detox. But, that being said, I do know when I am truely hungry - I suffered from anorexia in the past! :rolleyes: :p So, I am well aquainted with hunger and how it feels, and how it effects the way things taste, etc. I don't agree that you shouldn't have a snack if hungry just so you can say you eat 3 meals a day. I eat lunch at 11:30 am and sometimes don't have dinner until 7pm. I don't feel there is any reason I can't eat a peice of fruit around 4 pm to tide me over, so I won't be following that part.

Auntie Rozzi - Thanks for the cookbook tip, I looked it up on Amazon and it looks great. Can I ask though, are the recipes all in grams or does it also have cups, etc? Because I don't own a food scale...

j&k
Jan 13th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Wildflower -- I am not saying you shouldn't have piece of fruit if you are truly hungry. The key is just to know if you have true hunger or have toxic hunger. For me, I eat four times a day generally because I work out a lot and need more food at more regular intervals. But I do know when I am truly hungry.

There is more going on when you remove toxic foods than simply insulin and metabolism adjustments, though. Think about somebody who stops drinking coffee. What happens? They often get headaches and irritable until the detox period is over. Same thing with people who take barbituates or other drugs, right?

Well, the unhealthy foods we eat also create metabolic waste products stored in our cells and fat deposits that are removed when we stop eating the garbage and start eating more healthful foods. These sorts of metabolic wastes cannot be removed by colonics, or liver cleanses or any of that new age stuff. Toxins are not simply stored in the colon waiting to come out when you put clay in there. They are stored in our cells and fat.

This is not the sort of thing you have to take on faith, like you do a colonic. Check into what I am saying. Look into it scientifically.

Best,
Josh

Wildflower
Jan 13th, 2007, 08:50 PM
Thanks Josh, I will look into what you are talking about. :) I am not opposed to some fasting/reduced calorie diets for short amounts of time, but I am not aware of the science behind it in regards to toxins, so I will look into it. Also, I would not want to follow a lifestyle plan that calls for that on a daily basis.

For the record I don't agree with colonics either. I think they wash away our good bacteria and therefore are not necessary or healthy. But, I am an open minded person, so I take no issue with others who find these things beneficial, I just don't chose to participate in them myself. I like to remain responsible for my body and my health, and therefore only do things that I truely believe are right for me. :)

Thanks for all your help Josh, I really appreciate it.

auntierozzi
Jan 14th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Jane Sen puts all the possible measures. ml, pint or cup so you would be fine :-)

Wildflower
Jan 16th, 2007, 12:47 AM
thanks auntierozzi! I am going to see if they have it at my local bookshop.

j&k
Jan 17th, 2007, 04:23 PM
Wildflower -- You are quite welcome. Just to be clear, the diet itself is meant to be a way of eating for life. Once the cellular wastes and glycated end products etc. are removed, the idea is they don't really come back provided the diet is good. So, it is not a continuous detox, it is simply something that happens in the beginning, and then you go on about your life eating a healthy diet...Does that make sense?

Best,
josh

Wildflower
Jan 21st, 2007, 09:12 PM
Yes, that does make sense Josh. Thanks for clarifying. :)

Robert
Apr 29th, 2007, 07:40 PM
Great, found the thread.

What do you all think - would adding some (very limited) olive oil into the vegan version of this diet totally scupper any chance of weightloss?

I am 319lbs and need to lose a LOT of weight. Want to do the best I can on the Eat to Live programme but the lack of olive oil is making things difficult - how do you braise/grill/brown things like onion, garlic, tomatoes and mushrooms without oil?

Veryblue2
Apr 29th, 2007, 09:45 PM
Hi Robert,

For browning mushrooms and onions I normally use a george foreman-type grilling machine or you could even just use a normal grill. For all of the four you mentioned and for stir-fries etc. you could 'steam-fry' (i.e. use a heavy bottomed non stick pan, stir the veg over a high heat, adding a couple of tablespoons of water or veggie broth every so often just to keep from sticking). I first read about this method reading articles by Bryanna Clark Grogan: http://www.bryannaclarkgrogan.com/.

I would suggest that if the plan is a radical overhaul from what you were consuming in the past, whether or not you include small amounts of olive oil, it shouldn't scupper any chance of weight loss. Doesn't the plan suggest adding small amounts of oil/fats to your diet after the initial six week period?

If your really struggling without oil, and have no sucess with steam-frying you could use a few squirts of that low calorie spray oil stuff to ensure that what ever you are cooking doesn't adhere itself to the bottom of the pan.

Best of luck :)

hazelbunny
Apr 29th, 2007, 09:54 PM
Great, found the thread.

What do you all think - would adding some (very limited) olive oil into the vegan version of this diet totally scupper any chance of weightloss?

I am 319lbs and need to lose a LOT of weight. Want to do the best I can on the Eat to Live programme but the lack of olive oil is making things difficult - how do you braise/grill/brown things like onion, garlic, tomatoes and mushrooms without oil?

I have recently started to avoid fried oil and have found that steam-frying works fine. Congratulations on your decision btw and good luck!