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Woodsie
Jan 15th, 2007, 08:58 PM
Just wondered if any Aussies saw the Sunday paper front page article "Soy Linked with Cancer"? The article was written by the Cancer Council (so a reliable source) and was basically saying that people with cancer should avoid soy products because excessive amounts have been shown to feed tumours. I felt by 'excessive' they meant people who were eating several serves of soy a day and taking soy supplements and concluded that 'moderation' was the key here. It kind of reminded me of the HRT scare some years ago which was totally taken out of context - and I wondered why the cancer council have never put out an article about the use of dairy products and their link with breast/ovarian cancer (to my knowledge anyway). Just wondered if anyone else saw the article and if so, what is your opinion on it?

eve
Jan 15th, 2007, 09:34 PM
Hi Woodsie, yes, couldn't help reading the article when it was splashed all over the front page of the Sunday Mail. I posted about it at http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=269858&highlight=soy#post269858

As for my opinion, I find it really annoying that so many articles from so-called authorities tell women in particular to drink plenty of milk to avoid conditions such as osteoporosis, when we all know that ingesting dairy products actually helps bring about osteo. It's obvious that the Dairy Board, as well as the Meat Board, are powerful lobbies. It is actually all a matter of the bottom line - which media outlets are going to print articles about the dangers of milk and meat when their advertising income is so dependent upon meat and dairy? Just about everything that's advertised is a milk/meat product, whether the ads are on tv or in magazines, or in newspapers. Sickening :(

eve
Jan 22nd, 2007, 03:28 AM
Now is revealed that the people in this 'research' are all advanced cancer patients that were put onto heavy phytoestrogen supplements. But of course by now, the general public remember the main article, and don't understand the rest.

Woodsie
Jan 22nd, 2007, 04:00 AM
Hi Eve .... where did you see this article? Was it in the paper? I didn't get round to reading it.

karmadust
Jan 22nd, 2007, 11:46 AM
All this "soy causes cancer" stuff is really odd to me (I'm no expert, so perhaps the science is "beyond" me) but soy contains IP6, which is a tumor suppressant, so logically you'd think soy would help fight cancer. Sigh. Things are never so simple.

Having said that, I'd rather live with the health problems supposedly associated with soy, than the health problems definitely associated with meat.

hollybee
Jan 22nd, 2007, 02:38 PM
Having said that, I'd rather live with the health problems supposedly associated with soy, than the health problems definitely associated with meat.

Agreed.

Pisces
Jan 22nd, 2007, 09:04 PM
Having said that, I'd rather live with the health problems supposedly associated with soy, than the health problems definitely associated with meat.

I agree too!

eve
Jan 23rd, 2007, 01:30 AM
Hi Eve .... where did you see this article? Was it in the paper? I didn't get round to reading it.
In either the "Weekend Australian" or the "Sunday Mail" that I read this last weekend, there were a couple of 'advertorials' by Sanitarium and another soymilk manufacturer. Both their half-page ads clearly pointed out the facts about the original claim that soy leads to cancer. But as I posted, the general public would remember the first article - cosidering it had full front page banner headlines etc rather than the announcements by Sanitarium and the other firm.

Woodsie
Jan 23rd, 2007, 05:07 AM
Yes .. my sister was gleefully pointing out the article in the paper. Wonder why people have to do that? Gee, there's a zillion articles linking meat and dairy to ill health that I could rub their noses in if I chose to!

Pisces
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:44 AM
I know! Anything that's non-vegan seems to give non-vegans the impression that they have justification for their cruel doings/unhealthy living. When we (vegans) abstain from rubbing their noses into veganfriendly articles, well, that often makes them (the non-vegans) seem more idiotic on their part (choosing to rub our noses when we don't do so to them, despite potentially being tempted to). Does that make any sense?:confused:

Woodsie
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:08 PM
Definitely! For some reason their thinking is 'majority rules' if you get my drift ... i.e. if the majority are meat eaters then it must be ok, like, people have always eaten meat and dairy so they can't be bad for us. I guess we have all been brainwashed by the meat and dairy corporations which is further reinforced by dietitions, heart/cancer foundations endorsing many of these 'foods'. It is only those of us who have broadened our knowledge on these issues and made the 'connection' with animal rights and health benefits who have seen the light. They just like to say "I told you so" - guess that makes them feel in their own minds that it's ok to eat animal products. Hope that makes some sort of sense!

Fifty9
Jan 23rd, 2007, 10:07 PM
Sounds misleading. There is a difference between soy foods (soy beans, tofu, tempeh, soy milk, etc) and soy protein isolates (mock meats, soy protein shakes and other heavily refined/altered foods. I quickly skimmed over the information from the cancer council, and they endorse soy foods while frowning on isolated soy protein. Rightfully so, but misleading information reported by the press.

When dealing with people who use this to discredit a vegan diet. Try to remember that we eat a plant-based diet, and not a soy-based one.

Pisces
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:06 PM
Good find, Fifty9! That is a difference. I can't bring myself to eat/crave mock meats because they remind me of the corpses that they're imitating (if you know what I mean).

And Woodsie, I know exactly what you mean. You're making plenty of sense. ;)

Fifty9
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:25 PM
Mock meats are not healthy, even if they are vegan. People would do well to avoid them, or limit them to special occasions. Tofurky on Thanksgiving is fine, but mixing vegie-ground into your spaghetti sauce every week is not a good idea. A lot of the protein related problems associated with eating meat are also found with eating isolated soy protein.


Tofu would be a better choice, but it's still better to consume tofu as a condiment with a meal rather than the main course.

eve
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:46 PM
Pisces, you say:

I can't bring myself to eat/crave mock meats because they remind me of the corpses that they're imitating (if you know what I mean).
Sure do know what you mean. I was in a vegan restaurant in Sydney a few years back, and the waiter brought out a tray to a nearby table, with what appeared to be a huge fish on a platter. Of course it was imitation, but the look of it was quite revolting to me!

Pisces
Jan 24th, 2007, 12:06 AM
Geez! I would have reacted the same way. I'm glad I'm not the only one who reacts to such analogs that way! :p

And, Woodsie, I agree that tofu is better as a condiment than a main meal (that goes for all proteins in my opinion). Of course, if they're vegan (real) proteins, that's the only kinds of protein (tofu, other forms of soy) one should get, but it shouldn't be so overrated (e.g. the only source of protein). One would have to eat nothing but something with no nutritional value in order to be deficient in protein (something that many non-vegans are sadly mislead by).

Roxy
Jan 24th, 2007, 03:44 AM
Mock meats are not healthy, even if they are vegan. People would do well to avoid them, or limit them to special occasions. Tofurky on Thanksgiving is fine, but mixing vegie-ground into your spaghetti sauce every week is not a good idea. A lot of the protein related problems associated with eating meat are also found with eating isolated soy protein.


Tofu would be a better choice, but it's still better to consume tofu as a condiment with a meal rather than the main course.


But I thought that there were some companies that didn't use soy protein isolates. Tofurky for example claims not to use these (I am particularly thinking of their deli-slices, sausages and Tofurky roast). I also notice on Yves packaging that they list soy protein and soy protein isolates as 2 separate ingredients.

Fifty9
Jan 24th, 2007, 07:46 AM
I don't think Tofurky uses them, but my basic point being that soy foods that are so rich in protein should not be eaten on a regular basis. I think Tofurky has over 25g of protein per serving, which is really high. Yves and Light Life I'm sure use isolates.

What happens is that these protein isolates greatly increase the IGF-1 levels in our blood. IGF-1 is a growth hormone that promotes cell growth while inhibiting cell death. This creates an environment in your body that is perfect for cancer growth, but terrible for your lifespan. Meat doesn't seem to increase IGF-1 levels, but milk does. However, soy protein isolates increase IGF-1 levels by a percentage nearly double that of milk.

The studies I've seen do not link simple soy foods to cancer, only isolates where all of the fiber and nutrients have been removed. Some ingredients to look out for would be; isolated soy protein, soy protein concentrate, soy concentrate, textured vegetable protein, textured soy flour and defatted soy flour.

Roxy
Jan 24th, 2007, 07:49 AM
Oh wow - Ok - thanks so much for the info! I actually do eat a lot of faux meat products. Errrr......maybe I need to slow down!

Fifty9
Jan 24th, 2007, 07:59 AM
I use to eat them a lot too in the beginning, but I feel so much better when I stay away from the stuff. After Thanksgiving when I eat Tofurky/Unturky, I feel terrible and sluggish for two days! I just do much better when I eat a baked potato and kale for dinner.

Roxy
Jan 24th, 2007, 08:00 AM
Hehe - I'm 2 years into my veganism though lol. One of the first things I'm going to do is check on the ingredients before I purchase any more of these products.

Fifty9
Jan 24th, 2007, 08:10 AM
If being vegan is a life-long decision, then the two-year mark would still be at the beginning for you. So, good job!

You respond really fast, by the way... It's like telepathy.:eek:

Roxy
Jan 24th, 2007, 08:12 AM
Yes, I'm a vegan toddler :D

How quick was that ;)

Fifty9
Jan 24th, 2007, 08:13 AM
two minutes. What took you so long?

Roxy
Jan 24th, 2007, 08:14 AM
checking ingredients ;)