Vegans and eggs

[medus]

But why other wild birds don't do that?
And why hens stop laying eggs when they brood and grow their kids?

:)

[Realfood Mary]

Other "wild" birds are free to make their own sexual choices, so their eggs are usually fertilised. Hen mothers, like human mothers, stop ovulating when they are nurturing their young. For example, I didn't have any periods for eight months after my son was born, and only very light ones up until I stopped nursing him at three and a half.

Hen mothers may have a different mechanism which turns off their ovulation than human mothers, but they still have no need to ovulate when looking after their babies.

In the wild hens lay small clutches, not very often, and most of the eggs have been fertilised, because hens are able to regulate their own lives, and have intercourse with who they want.

Hens in captivity don't have any of these choices, and so their behaviour is not typical of hen culture or biology as a whole. Hens in captivity are stressed as well. Human women will tell you that stress can cause problems with ovulation. (I can tell you that myself!) It seems from observation that stressed hens suffer more when laying than free hens.

[Mozbee]

It all makes sense, no wonder more women are vegan than men we can empathise :)

[Realfood Mary]

Actually, that is an interesting point. Have you ever read The Sexual Politics of Meat by Carole Adams?

You could argue that all enslavement whatever its form sprang from the ugly precedent of using animals for their flesh, milk and eggs. Another thing to bear in mind is the fact that animals are routinely sexually abused. What else is "artificial insemination"? A human being can give consent for her fertility to be manipulated. A male turkey does not give consent to be masturbated - and frequently these victims of sexual assault have bruised penises because the "milker" (am I okay to call them by their real name? Wanker?) is so rough with them. Similarly bulls and boars are anally electrocuted to force them to ejaculate, (they often have scarring of their anus, and burns) and the female victims are pinned down while humans insert the semen into their vaginas. Often turkeys, pigs and cows suffer from vaginal tearing. Basically male and female animals are raped for the meat industry.

The same thing happens to "pure bred" (ie, deliberately inbred) pets as well. Joan Dunayer writes about a female bull dog who was basically raped to death by two men - though they called it "breeding." She was pinned on her back, and because she was a bull dog had breathing difficulties. As the man who thought he owned her struggled to keep her pinned she bit him. He was taken directly to the hospital. Meanwhile the breeder continued to attempt to shove a basting type syringe with semen into her vagina, despite her obvious terror. Her breathing worsened as her panic grew, and she died.

When the case was reported the veterinary profession were concerned that this kind of thing could lead to legal damages against the profession. The man could sue for injury (the victim biting him) and for loss of property (the victim died.)

Of course both men should have been done for sexual assault and murder.

What amazes me is that I have spoken to Christians about the fact that their "meat" was once an individual, who has been confined, beaten, often sexually abused and murdered, and they still continue to eat the poor victims. Milk is always a product of sexual abuse in the West, as well as theft from some mother and her baby. It is horrific. Basically "farming" is based on abuse of every kind against the victims. Including sexual abuse. So yes, maybe women do understand slightly better than most men, but many men have been sexually abused too. As long as we enslave animals and legitimise their torture by thinking turkey wanking is an acceptable job for a human being we will never evolve as a species into something better than killers and rapists. And we need to evolve, for everyone's sake. Not least the chickens.

Mary

[kokopelli]

Yeah, I often wonder whether the sexual abuse and manipulation of the animals people exploit for meat and milk has a direct effect on the sexual psychology of society. Like maybe the proliferation of wank mags and websites is a direct consequence.

[Realfood Mary]

I read that bestiality is legal in many American states, and parts of Europe. It wouldn't be as legal if it was called "rape of a non human."

[Mozbee]

That is absurd and totally sick. :mad:

Ofcourse it wouldn't be the case if the non human was taking the leading role would it!

[Mozbee]

Mind you with some warped human brains who knows :eek: yuck

[kokopelli]

Well the whole artificial insemination industry is definitely a form of bestiality. How come that's not outlawed in the UK as well as actual physical human-animal copulation?

Have you ever seen the pervy semen ads in 'Farmer's Weekly'?
And in Gwlad, the Welsh Assembly farming advice mag a while ago, there was a photo of a guy with his arm right up a cow's vagina, illustrating an article about how he got a grant for his AI business :eek:

[Realfood Mary]

How come that's not outlawed in the UK as well as actual physical human-animal copulation?

That is a great point. I presume because no-one ever thought to challenge standard practise (ie, sexual abuse of animals) in the courts before. I will put your question to an animal rights lawyer that I know, and see what he thinks can be done with it.
Can you imagine what a precedent outlawing the forced insemination of non human animals would set, if it was agreed with? The breeding of victim animals would be massively reduced over night.
One day the law that your suggestion implies will be enforced, but it needs humans to speak up for the animals. Thankyou for speaking up yourself! (Even if first few times round we get ignored and laughed out of court!)

Mary

[kokopelli]

It's a great idea to ask the animal rights lawyer about this, Mary, but I suspect there will be some way out of it for the animal breeders...it's a massive vested interest after all, an 'industry' with a huge annual turnover, and an integral necessity for industrial agriculture.

But if it was possible to launch a legal challenge, at least it would create publicity and bring these horrendous practices to public attention...which should result in lots more people becoming vegan, even if AI isn't found to be illegal.

[Mozbee]

This is reminding me of that program called 'The Farm' :mad: which really highlighted the sexual abuse which goes on in the farming industry. I was suprised when 'the public' didn't react more to it.

[Realfood Mary]

It's a great idea to ask the animal rights lawyer about this, Mary, but I suspect there will be some way out of it for the animal breeders...it's a massive vested interest after all, an 'industry' with a huge annual turnover, and an integral necessity for industrial agriculture.

But if it was possible to launch a legal challenge, at least it would create publicity and bring these horrendous practices to public attention...which should result in lots more people becoming vegan, even if AI isn't found to be illegal.
I agree that it will not work the first time around. Or even the second or third, but it would raise public awareness of the fact that animals are sexually abused in the flesh industry. This would hopefully stop a lot of people from consuming the flesh and other products of the victims. This would hasten the day when there will be enough vegans around that we can get a ban on animal sexual abuse as well as every other abuse of other species.

What do you think?

[Mozbee]

Get on the phone to your AR lawyer asap Mary :D

[kokopelli]

I just remembered the article in Gwlad was actually about a new technique called 'embryo flushing', which they do because lots of cows these days have become infertile, so they grow embryos in one cow and then 'flush' them out of her womb to implant them into other cows. The man with his arm up the cow's vagina was engaged in 'embryo flushing'.

I agree it's a good idea to test the law out, if that's at all feasible.

[Mozbee]

If only human's had the capacity to understand animals emotions, needs and desires.
Humans (as a species) seem to comprehend so little about the feelings of other species. :(

[Evilfluffbunny]

Aren't eggs basically like little wombs to keep the chick safe? I was wondering that the other day, I mean, if the white squidgy bit (someone told me that's called the chalaza) would have been the chick's umbilical cord, then isn't the yolk basically like a placenta and the egg white is the same as amniotic fluid?

[kokopelli]

If you look at a fertilised egg, you can see a little spot of blood on the yolk, and I think that's where the embryo develops. From what I remember from school biology, the yolk contains a balance of nutrients which nourish the growing chick, and once that's all used up, the white of the egg gives protein which it needs for its final growth spurt before hatching...and those wiggly white thread bits keep the yolk in the centre of the white.

But I may be wrong...

Just checked and you're right, the twisted albumen threads are called chalaza.

[Kimberly]

Oh gawd...the thought makes me want to vomit. You know, I should have known long before I went vegan that I should be vegan: I used to always have to take those white embryo bits out of my eggs before cooking them and doing so would make me want to gag. Ugh.

[Mozbee]

If you look at a fertilised egg, you can see a little spot of blood on the yolk, and I think that's where the embryo develops. From what I remember from school biology, the yolk contains a balance of nutrients which nourish the growing chick, and once that's all used up, the white of the egg gives protein which it needs for its final growth spurt before hatching...and those wiggly white thread bits keep the yolk in the centre of the white.

That's what I've discovered via TV & sites too.
Eggs are precious little miracles, they're not ment to be thrown at John Prescott (surely there's something more apropriate! :D )

[Realfood Mary]

Try rotten tomatoes.
:p

[Mozbee]

That's been suggested for wearers of others fur too!
:p (Good thinking Mary)

[Shisha Fiend]

Or take a leaf out of Prescott's own book, and just throw a punch.

[Mozbee]

Now now surely non-violent is better!
Couldn't you deep thought him to fall into a puddle!

[Kelzie]

If you look at a fertilised egg, you can see a little spot of blood on the yolk, and I think that's where the embryo develops. From what I remember from school biology, the yolk contains a balance of nutrients which nourish the growing chick, and once that's all used up, the white of the egg gives protein which it needs for its final growth spurt before hatching...and those wiggly white thread bits keep the yolk in the centre of the white.

But I may be wrong...

Just checked and you're right, the twisted albumen threads are called chalaza.

That little spot of blood isn't an embryo. If a chicken get stressed out while the egg is forming, blood vessels rupture and sometimes remain in the egg...which makes me wonder just how stressed the chicken has to be, since most eggs don't have it, and most chickens live pretty stressful lives.