Vegans and eggs

[Realfood Mary]

One of my uncles is a chicken farmer, and he kept them in sheds. He used to go really bonkers when these spots turned up, because it meant there was a cockerel in the shed - sometimes they become quite fully formed. They don't tend to get too big though, because the hens can't incubate them. They roll down. In a shed of 1/4 of a million chickens there will be cockerels that escaped the mincing process. Think how stressed they must be, surrounded by so many females, and unable to defend them.

So I think it is genuinely a fertilised egg, and not stress that causes these spots. Because every single hen I have ever met who was in one of these places was stressed to the extent that they were bald, flinching, excreting in fear - some of them have just dropped dead with fright. People say "stress" perhaps to alleviate their feeling of squeamishness about eating tiny baby birds.

But I could be wrong!

[Kelzie]

"Q: WHAT CAUSES BLOOD SPOTS?
A: Small spots of blood (sometimes called "meat" spots) are occasionally found in an egg yolk. These do not indicate a fertile egg; they are caused by the rupture of a blood vessel on the yolk surface during formation of the egg. Most eggs with blood spots are removed during the grading process but a few may escape detection. As an egg ages, water moves from the albumen into the yolk, diluting the blood spot. Thus, a visible blood spot actually indicates a fresh egg. Such eggs are suitable for consumption. The spot can be removed with the tip of a knife, if you wish."

This is from the American Egg Board. Honestly, even though I''m thankful for the information, why do only the egg, meat and dairy industries have Boards? What happened to the Broccoli Board? Or the Strawberry Board? I suppose people don't need to be convinced that broccoli is good for you...

[Mija]

Yuck!

[tipsy]

i would rather see all my friends and family eating free range/organic meats than the ones they do now.

at the very least you can be assured that the conditions that the free range/organic animal lived in were better than those of the factory farm animals... (before they were slaughtered).

but it is still flesh, not everyone rocks as much as we vegans do though. :D :D

[adam antichrist]

I guess something that has been addressed on other threads but not here is that organic/free range meats are actually a distraction from factory farming issues rather than a solution. If a person is offended by the conditions in factory farms, and is told or believes they can combat this by eating organic meat, they don't realise they are still supporting factory farming through the use of by-products like gelatine or leather that as vegans they would abstain from.

There are animal welfare organisations here in Australia that push organic/free range meats as the answer to factory farming and this is undoing alot of the good work done over the last three decades by animal rights groups. Organic meats are a compromise, therefore as an activist I am against them.

As for eggs however (off topic I know), while free range egg production is just barely less evil than that of battery eggs, I know people who have chooks in their yard that live well and they eat the eggs they lay (never sell them though). I am not opposed to that, as the hens are just living their life and are looked after rather than 'used'. I also know vegans who have hens and choose not to eat the eggs. Personally I don't see a difference, if the animal is looked after... and in the case of unfertilised eggs layed by hens 9 out of 10 times they are abandoned by the mother when she knows they will not produce chicks so it is not like she is missing anything either.

[Raskolnikov]

Well, I suppose it is a slight improvement, and for those who refuse to give up meat, then it's probably the least disagreeable option.

[Daniel]

Hen Heaven near Brighton sell eggs from their rescued hens to pay for their care, and I can't see much objection to eating those and can see good reasons for supporting them.
They sell the hens' eggs? This does not sound like a reputable operation. I know "rescues" are not required to follow any guidelines and many breed and trade in animals, but accredited sanctuaries have to follow professional standards. The first rule is usually that the animals must not be bred, or otherwise allowed to breed. The second rule is, "No use of animals for any commercial activity that is exploitive in nature" (American Sanctuary Association); or "Use of the animals in commercial activities is prohibited" (The Association of Sanctuaries). The buying, selling, trading or otherwise treating animals of a sanctuary, and their by-products, as resources is wrong.

[rujoon]

chickens eggs?. She is a committed vegan, but she says, if battery chickens are rescued and continues to lay, she thinks it is ok to eat the eggs. Her rationale is that by paying the rescuer for the eggs, she is helping the upkeep of the chickens. No sure myself, how this fits in with a vegan philosophy?. Before I went vegan, I would only eat eggs if I could see the chickens and that they were ok. Has this come up before and how do folks think about it?I dun think I will, firstly because I dunno what the hen is thinking..what if she thought her eggs are gonna hatch into chicks?:eek: (just a wierd idea:p ). Secondly, the egg is part of the hen reproductive cycle... this reminds me of human biology... and the reproductive system and cycle, and I m kinda turn off from eating egg.:D

[Mozbee]

I dun think I will, firstly because I dunno what the hen is thinking..what if she thought her eggs are gonna hatch into chicks?:eek: (just a wierd idea:p ). Secondly, the egg is part of the hen reproductive cycle... this reminds me of human biology... and the reproductive system and cycle, and I m kinda turn off from eating egg.:D
Good point - makes egg eating sound kinkier than ever! :rolleyes:

[Pob]

I would say that eating eggs is probably quite a natural thing for humans, though.

I'm not saying it's natural to treat chickens the way they are, but I could see how ancient man would probably regard eggs as a tasty treat if he found them while foraging for nuts and berries. I suspect that quite a few predominantly veggie species would, too, along with the odd insect.

Overall, though, I don't want/need to eat them (eggs or insects ;)).

[John]

It's also natural to hit a person on the head when you are angry with him.

[Kiran]

Secondly, the egg is part of the hen reproductive cycle... this reminds me of human biology... and the reproductive system and cycle, and I m kinda turn off from eating egg.:D

Now that you mentioned it... how would this sound... PeTA's anti-leather campain says " Wear your own skin - let animals have theirs ". Similarly an anti-egg campain would be " Eat your own egg - let hens have theirs".. :D

[Plunder Bunnie]

Well, i've had chickens basically my entire life, and i know if eggs didnt gross me out so bad i would eat there eggs. Why? because unless the egg is fertilised the hen will usually just leave it to rot. But, since i have alot of alternatives to eggs and its not nessecary, id probabyl jsut feed them the eggs. In nature, chickens will often eat unfertilised eggs, jsut as many animals eat after birth, because it is packed with nutrients. I've never had a chicken get upset with me taking their eggs (although they did whenever my dog did!), unless she was trying to incubate them. Then, look out!! Chickens are damned good mothers, and if those eggs are fertilised, you'll know, because shes not gonna give them up without a fight.

[SuntoryTime]

I'm ovo-vegetarian at the moment. I do not wear anything that came from an animal, and try my best to buy products that haven't been tested. I try to live the vegan lifestyle, and the only thing that's keeping me from "labeling" (ergh, gotta hate that word) myself vegan are the eggs, which I had intended to stop eating this month.

But I've been thinking -- and believe me, I've been thinking hard -- about this, and I came to the conclusion that eating eggs is... okay. Or at least not necessarily cruel or ethically wrong.

You see, the only eggs that I eat are bought at the local market from people I am sure treat their chickens well. I know these chickens are not fed crap, I know they are cage-free, and I know they have a good life. Yes, they probably get killed and eaten when they get old, but their lives are no living hell. Outside (and inside, too) of the house I try to avoid eggs as much as possible, and I only really use them in cakes because all my vegan cakes turn out icky.

So my question is, is there anything wrong with eating these eggs? Besides health reasons, like cholesterol and salmonella, which I am well aware of, is there any reason why eating these eggs wouldn't be okay? I mean, they are cruelty-free.

Opinions?

[Kumem]

I'm ovo-vegetarian at the moment. I do not wear anything that came from an animal, and try my best to buy products that haven't been tested. I try to live the vegan lifestyle, and the only thing that's keeping me from "labeling" (ergh, gotta hate that word) myself vegan are the eggs, which I had intended to stop eating this month.

But I've been thinking -- and believe me, I've been thinking hard -- about this, and I came to the conclusion that eating eggs is... okay. Or at least not necessarily cruel or ethically wrong.

You see, the only eggs that I eat are bought at the local market from people I am sure treat their chickens well. I know these chickens are not fed crap, I know they are cage-free, and I know they have a good life. Yes, they probably get killed and eaten when they get old, but their lives are no living hell. Outside (and inside, too) of the house I try to avoid eggs as much as possible, and I only really use them in cakes because all my vegan cakes turn out icky.

So my question is, is there anything wrong with eating these eggs? Besides health reasons, like cholesterol and salmonella, which I am well aware of, is there any reason why eating these eggs wouldn't be okay? I mean, they are cruelty-free.

Opinions?

Well done for all of the other steps that you are taking. The thing is, that as vegans we feel that it is wrong for chickens to be killed. They are only alive because they are giving eggs. When that stops they die. If people did not eat eggs, there would be no need for the chickens that you talk about, to die.
I won't go into factory farming and chickens because you are talking about free range. One thing to note though is that even eggs from markets can be intensively farmed. Don't believe all that you are told. The sellers know some people might not buy them if they tell the truth.
The whole point of veganism is to live as cruelty free life as possible and eating the eggs that you talk about is not in line with that.
I am sure there are others who can explain in more detail why eggs are disgusting from the point of view of what they actually are.
However, I am just coming at this from the point of view of the chickens right to live.

[SurfNSun]

ConciousCuisine has an interesting egg analogy: since eggs are nothing more than the byproduct of chickens' menstrual cycles, eating them is basically tantamount to sucking on a tampon.

I believe ConciousCuisine would have good insight for this thread.:)

[SuntoryTime]

SurfNSun: Thank you for the disgusting imagery. :P

Kumen: Good point... So if the chickens got to live their lives peacefully until they die of natural causes, the eggs would be okay? Or is it the fact that the chickens are kept just because of their eggs and not, say, kept as pets, that is wrong here?

[Kumem]

SurfNSun: Thank you for the disgusting imagery. :P

Kumen: Good point... So if the chickens got to live their lives peacefully until they die of natural causes, the eggs would be okay? Or is it the fact that the chickens are kept just because of their eggs and not, say, kept as pets, that is wrong here?

I think what you need to do is ask yourself whether you think it is wrong or right. :)

The point is not just the killing of the chickens, but that they are not products, their eggs are their eggs. To take them without permission is stealing. If you took a female humans eggs then you would be punished. Vegans believe that animals have rights. They just don't belong to us and taking them suggests that the animal is not important enough to not steal from.

Aside from that, we do not need to eat them. There is no reason to eat them. I like the taste, but I like the taste of meat too. If you want to live a cruelty free lifestyle then that becomes secondary to the rights of the animals.

Also, how many chickens get to live their lives peacefully? Not many. So it is kind of a hypothetical question, like 'what if you were stranded on a desert island with only a chicken. Would you eat it?"

[thinkvegan]

I just wrote a text on my blog, that talks about egg consumption, and on the death and suffering that all forms of egg production imply (included organic or free range, of course). I would like to know peoples opinions.

You can read it:
http://www.thinkvegan.net/item/34/

The photos were taken by myself and my boyfriend at a market in Spain, yes in some places here, animals are still sold at street markets.

[Kam]

Does anyone have any facts about why eggs are so bad to eat (for health, primarily, not the chicks so much, I don't think that argument will work as well with the person I am having this discussion with).

She eats about 10 eggs a week, I just think that is so unhealthy, but other than point out about all the cholesterol, I am not being veru successful at putting forward a brilliant explanation for giving up eggs for the sake of her health if not for the sake of the chickens. Thanks. Should this be a new thread on it's own - Eggs, why they are unhealthy?

[Yoggy]

I've heard that the gov't recommends no more than 3 eggs per week to remain healthy, because they really are loaded with cholesterol. I did a quick search and found out that the RDA of cholesterol is no more than 200 mg, and one egg contans 213 mg. So if your friend eats one egg, she better not eat any more animal products for the rest of the day if she wants to stay healthy! It also contains a moderate amount of fat (5 g per egg). And I suppose all that protein could prevent calcium absorption.

Usually I get through to people better when I talk about the fact that eggs are byproducts of chicken periods. When human women get their period, it's because they're ovulating, and when I ask my friends if they would eat a human unfertilised egg if it was large enough, they of course say no. But why is it less disgusting to eat something that comes from a chicken's vagina? To quote another thread, some people really don't get it!

[eve]

who cares if it is healthy or unhealthy, we just don't eat eggs. Don't be concerned for your friend's health Kam, I'm sure she is eating a lot more crap than just eggs.

[Kam]

who cares if it is healthy or unhealthy, we just don't eat eggs. Don't be concerned for your friend's health Kam, I'm sure she is eating a lot more crap than just eggs. She's actually cut right back on meat, not veggie yet by any stretch, but I have helped her see that so much meat was bad for her, and she understands that. I am just working on the eggs at the moment! One step at a time! I think I will try the chicken period line!!!

[sugarmouse]

personally i think it is the most bizarrething to eat!not bringing any morals into it even.
why would u eat a chickens egg?an unfertilized foetus?why?who decided this was edible!

[Plunder Bunnie]

I think it's too easy to get purist and dogmatic about veganism. Is veganism not about animal welfare? If a person owns a chicken, the chicken lays an egg which is unfertilised and will eventually rot, what harm is there to eat it. What matters is the welfare of the chicken and the owner and the environment. In a world which has millions of people starving to death isn't it a touch precious to debate the technical principals of veganism above the spiritual. Isn't it worse to eat a banana that has travelled half way around the world and attributed to pollution and global warming en-route? The lives of billions of the worlds inhabitants (animals and humans) are in the balance due to mass consumption, over farming and the transport of goods around the globe, including bananas. Tell me what's worse... the woman rescuing chickens and eating eggs or a man who eats bananas. Isn't it the spiritual that counts above the technical?

And another thing... how many people here have rescued battery chickens and given them back a life? Isn't that wonderful? She sounds a good women to me.

I totally agree. This is esentially what ive been trying to say, its just been summed up alot better. If i were to have chickens again, i may not eat thier eggs because i do find it gross, but id be more then willing to share them with friends, especially if they could have the eggs of my happy chickens as opossed to the eggs of chickens that are treated like crap.