Vegans and eggs

[mysh]

Personally, I wouldn't berate anyone for eating the eggs of a rescued chicken, but I would never do it myself. Not due to not liking eggs, or thinking they're gross or anything. Just 'cos it's wrong for me.

[uww27225]

While I agree with you cc, I feel that we spend a lot of time on these boards debating what someone calls themselves and if we're cool with that and not enough time actually discussing the underlying issue. I understand the importance of having labels and universal definitions, but if that's as far as we can get in a conversation, I think it makes us appear shallow and hard-headed. I don't care if she calls herself the pope. She probably shouldn't call herself vegan or the pope (assuming she's not the pope :) ), but there's a great opportunity here to discuss the ethical underlyings of veganism and how it can relate to a nonvegan but yet we're still hung up on what she calls herself?!?

I apologize if I'm coming off crass or argumentative, but I feel that these forums concern themselves so heavily on how veganism is presented to the rest of the community and what people call themselves, that we miss out on discussions pertaining to internal vegan debates, how our ethics can be applied to an omni-world, etc. I think it's detrimental to the "vegan movement" if we talk so heavily about "converting" people and maintain this us vs. them mantality.

That's enough from me, I'll get off my soapbox for the moment...

[veganfever]

Very well said, uww27225 (lets see if i can get your "name" right :) ), IMHO.
I agree with you and i also want to emphasize what you said, that we should limit the use of the word "convert" as much as possible on this board. This is counterproductive to our mission.
More on the original subject, so there is no doubt, in my mind eating eggs is not in line with vegan philosophy, no matter the reason. :)

[ConsciousCuisine]

Didn't mean to come off as "trite" in my statements on this thread; I said what I did and kept it brief because on other threads about eggs I was VERY vocal about these issues...

I too do not care if a person decides to call themself whatever they wish to call themselves...If a girl wanted to call herself '"Jesus", well then good for her, because many people would be able to tell that she was not, in fact "The Messiah". If she called herself Jesus and was into gay bashing and rape, THEN I'd have a problem with the inconsistencies... :p

[John]

I don't think that anyone thinks that this person is hurting anyone by eating the eggs. On the contrary, she's doing more to help chickens than I am.

But selling eggs with a sticker that says "vegan friendly"? Come on now.
There is no need to eat eggs. Feed them to dogs, use them as fertilizer, let the chickens eat them if they want to.

On the other hand, it is definately better that people buy these eggs than the ones from cruel farms.

But the question was, "should the friend eat the eggs?".
Of course not; eggs are bad for your health.

Should she call herself a vegan? Of course not.
She is a vegetarian; a vegetarian who need not be ashamed.

[tails4wagging]

John, i think Linda of Hen Heaven puts that on her boxes for people like my friend who has a clear concience about eating them. I know it is a contradiction. But they may be more folks like my friend who does good deeds and enjoys the odd egg.

[mysh]

... let the chickens eat them if they want to.

Ewww!!! Now, that's just wrong! Yuk! :p <- supposed to be me throwing up.

[veganfever]

I admire her work in area of animal welfare but labeling eggs "vegan friendly" is a "NO-NO" in my understanding of what vegan means. As if you could eat eggs being vegan! Nonsense.

Generaly, i agree with John's reasoning in it's entireness.

[tails4wagging]

John a friend of mine has rescued chickens and she says, left to their devices hens will eat their own eggs. Must be getting some form of nutrient from them I guess.

[ConsciousCuisine]

:o Well, animals of all sorts eat their young, their own vomit, excretion of all sorts... :confused:

[lolamako]

Me and my husband have "pet" chickens, as in, you can bring them in the house, carry them around kiss them and such. I feel the need to explain why we have them, so no one thinks we just buy animals for fun...
We got two from a former boss who thought that his little girls would like baby chickens as pets :confused:
We caught one wild one of a neighbors, who let her roam the street(very busy, roadkill) and never fed her or gave her shelter.
One we bought from a feed store when we saw the male chickens attacking her, she was bloody and featherless on her back.
The wild one ended up having three babies, the eggs were fertalized when we let them out to peck around the yard.
We had this argument (me: dont eat the eggs, him: why not?) My reasoning was that we dont need to eat them, why not let the dogs eat them? so for a while the dogs got them, I thought for the longest time the girls werent laying but I noticed yolk on the roosters gobbles(dangley red things... :o ) So the problem took care of itself.
I dont think it would be wrong in certain situations to eat the eggs, but its not right for me. I think that some vegans look at the fact that someone eats eggs and not all the supporting facts as to why. And in RARE instances you cant find fault with that as long as they dont call themselves Vegan.

[lolamako]

Ok I thought about this a little more, my main problem with her eating the eggs is that it sends the wrong message to non vegans. Forget the nazi vegans who only want to show that there more pure than you. Im talking about the everyday "but WHAT do you eat??" people.
I may be able to say that all these factors. rescued chickens, safe happy lives now, there eggs just sit there etc are things that add up to me thinking that its not wrong to eat them. But no matter how articulate you are, no matter how persausive you argument may be they will not understand. It will be a major flaw and theyll focus on that.
I know that I am living this way to help animals, the planet, myself etc. but I also am a representative of VEGANISM. My goal is to reduce animals suffering, and I want people to take my lifestyle seriously. Not nessasarily me lecturing and spouting off about that dead animal there eating, but me LIVING.
If they see me living a life of inconsistencies, they will doubt the imortance of bieng vegan.
So like I said in my last post, its not right for me. Even if I ate these in a cave, and no one ever knew. I would know, I would know that these were not vital to my life, eating them is purely selfish. My lack of self control. And I dont know about you all, but I cant be honest with others if Im not honest with myself.

[ConsciousCuisine]

Ok I thought about this a little more, my main problem with her eating the eggs is that it sends the wrong message to non vegans.

Forget the nazi vegans who only want to show that there more pure than you. Im talking about the everyday "but WHAT do you eat??" people.


Nazi Vegans who only want to show they're more pure than you...

Hmmm, it's the "Mythic Vegan Nazis" the "Purists", again. Are they related to the "extremists" and the "AR Radicals"? :confused:

I have yet to encounter these Ubiquitous characters. Perhaps it's because I have been a Vegan for so long and don't make a practice of associating with people who aren't interested in achieving ethical balance and optimum health (physical and Spiritual).

Still, one has to wonder where these elusive vermin make thier homes... :rolleyes:

[cedarblue]

nazi vegans seems to be a very strong term.

[lolamako]

Sarcasm, a joke, exageration. Its sometimes hard to express this in just writing. Its merely a silly statement about people who always want to focus on the things you may be doing wrong, or not good enough. Unfortunatly bieng vegan is a path, not a destination. In these times it is almost impossible to be a perfect vegan.
I think that most vegans I know have run into the type Im joking about.

[gertvegan]

Karen Davis the founder of the United Poultry Concern (http://www.upc-online.org) will not eat the eggs even when they come from the chickens on her own sanctuary and even though they have the best life you could imagine for a chicken. She wants people to move away from the idea that their taste has a "right" to be satisfied and that animals in general, and chickens in particular, may be used to satisfy that taste.

This is from "The pig who sang to the moon" by Jeffrey Masson.

[blue]

OK, Mysh, that Republican Crack wasn't nice. I'm a proud republican! I am a George Bush supporter.

[gertvegan]

John Robbins says on his WEBSITE (http://www.foodrevolution.org/index.htm) that "many scientists believe the Daily Value for cholesterol has been set far higher than optimum for human health as a result of political pressure from the egg industry".

[celtic]

The argument is a flawed one. The chicken continues to lay eggs? I could counter argue that sheep continue to grow wool so I have a reasonable position to harvest the by product. However philosophically you will find that you are on a slippery slope. The whole point about veganism is that many find it untolerable and speciesist to exploit animals: period. Fertilized Eggs are to nature identical to human embryo, unfertilized eggs are in nature identical to human menstruation. If it is allright to harvest protein from an animal because it continues to lay eggs, then the argument must stand that it is allright to exploit a human for their by product.
Do you think this is revolting. Yes? Then it is the same for the chicken. But some exploit the chicken because it is of a lower animal intelligence than humans.

Therefore philosophically, it is blatant unmasked speciesism to eat eggs.

[chakra]

Once long ago after first renouncing meat, I ate eggs. I convinced myself that since they were the seed for more chickens there was no conflict with my meat-free intention. And "Diet For a Small Planet" said they were perfect protein.

This kind of rationalizing would eventually lead me astray and back into the succullence of flesh and blood. What happened was, after returning to New York in '78, biking over the Brooklyn Bridge, seeing the ships loading, I went to the NMU hall and shipped out. For a while I continued to pass on the meat. Every day I would see the excess meals being dumped over the side.

So, in a weak moment I convinced myself that it was more a crime for these animals to have died in vain, just to be dumped unceremoniously into the drink. I started to feel guilty about it. Then one day I ordered some meat. In a few years I was chomping down steaks and chops and swilling it in with the cabernet. Now and again I'd ask myself what had happened to me.

This is one of the reasons I quit going to sea again in '85. I settled in Portland, Oregon becoming impoverished and stranded. I ended up driving a cab. I finally quit eating meat again. Eventually I finally even became Vegan.

After some time all traces of even cheese or egg left my body and I realized just how unclean these things really are. And what they were doing to my spirit, not to mention the body.

After coming East again, I slipped a bit, but not into meat. For a while I got these Amish farm eggs from Sunshine, a health food store up my street. They were free ranging and supposedly OK, but the unclean nature of the meal kept hitting me. I gave them up over a year ago.

Something ain't right about it.

:cool:

[DontJustDoSomething, SitThere]

I have seen how some birds react when animals or humans try to steal their eggs. That's all it takes for me to decide that I don't want to eat them.

[Kiva Dancer]

The smell of eggs cooking is vile. Who would want to put something that smells like that into their mouth?

[Evilfluffbunny]

The smell of eggs cooking is vile. Who would want to put something that smells like that into their mouth?

The little white bogie bit that's attached to the yolk is basically an umbilical cord that the chick would have been attched to if fertilised - now who wants to eat that!? :eek:

[Kiva Dancer]

The little white bogie bit that's attached to the yolk is basically an umbilical cord that the chick would have been attched to if fertilised - now who wants to eat that!? :eek: The chalaza? I've read where the newer the egg is, the thicker that thing is inside the egg and it disappears as the egg ages.

Real appitising thought, isn't it? *vomit*

[dreama]

The problem is if you call yourself 'vegitarian' people keep giving you dairy products and battery eggs. That was my problem before I became totally vegan.

While a person is getting used to a vegan diet it's ok to slip every now and again as long as they make sure the eggs are not battery and the dairy products are organic/goats dairy products. Thats what I did and I have now no wish at all to eat anything which isn't vegan.