Explaining veganism to our kids

[wuggy]

My son, who is 7, has just got a new Encyclopedia, and was in the shop with me this morning, reading parts of it, when he stumbled upon a section on farming animals.
He proceeded to tell me that only 'bad' farmers kill the animals, the 'good' ones just 'look after them'. Well, feeling like a real nasty, I had to use the opportunity to tell him the truth about these farmers, and what happens to all their animals, including the dairy Cows. Although he has been raised vegetarian, he still had some fantasies about farms.
He was very, very upset and says he will now think about going vegan (he currently has no dairy or eggs but does eat things which include these ingredients). I just have to win him over with my cooking and baking - a new challenge!!
At the moment I feel like THE GRINCH WHO STOLE CHRISTMAS, though I am proud of my son's reaction. He asked if we could adopt lots of farm animals when we move, so no-one could eat them! (I'll have to see how large the garden will be!!!!!!!!!!).
I hope I handled this chat in the best way today, it wasn't easy to see my little boys eyes filling with tears, but they must know the truth - musn't they? :(

[foxytina_69]

i know that if i had been told the truth when i was young, i would have respected and appreciated my parents alot more when i was older. i think u did great :)

[tails4wagging]

A friend of mine, was told by her parents what meat so when she was 6 and never touched it since.She is now vegan.

If every child in the world was told what meat was we would have a world full of veggies!.

[celtic rose]

Well Done Wuggy

[harpy]

Yes, I'm sure you were right to tell the truth. As he's obviously interested in these things, he wouldn't thank you later if you'd made up a story.

[TheFirstBus]

Yes good for telling him the truth. Besides the tears in his eyes show him how much he cares.

[wuggy]

I know, but it's as though his carefree childhood days are ebbing away before me! :(

[ConsciousCuisine]

It is never to early to awaken consciousness. Good job, Wuggy. The truth is always a good idea.

[mysh]

Wow! That's really difficult! When I went veg*n, and told the kids they wouldn't be eating meat in the house any more, they were ok with that, but my then 5-year old son asked me, with tears in his eyes, if he could, please, continue eating cheese. Later on he guilted me into letting him eat chicken when we go to a restaurant (although he more often will eat cheese pizza). I feel completely torn what to do. :(

So I am very impressed with you, wuggy, for being brave enough to face the tears now, for the better result in the long run!

[ConsciousCuisine]

[QUOTE=mysh] When I went veg*n, and told the kids they wouldn't be eating meat in the house any more, they were ok with that, but my then 5-year old son asked me, with tears in his eyes, if he could, please, continue eating cheese. Later on he guilted me into letting him eat chicken when we go to a restaurant (although he more often will eat cheese pizza). I feel completely torn what to do. :(
QUOTE]

If you'd like any assistance or ideas, let me know. I had a similar experience with my daughter who has successfully embraced pure Veganism for many years now.

She was a devout cheese-lover who also asked me if she could "just eat chicken" at restaurants.

I will tell you how I handled it if you are interested...

Our children are more wise and open-hearted/open-minded than we might initially take them to be, when we give them the oportunity to show it (and give them correct information). ;)

[mysh]

I will tell you how I handled it if you are interested...

I would love to hear all about that! That's the main reason why I started posting here - to ask about that one thing...

I'm not sure whether we should discuss this in a new thread, or here - I'd feel bad hijacking wuggy's thread, although it is a related topic.
:confused:

[ConsciousCuisine]

We can start a new thread about "The BIG talk" for Vegan Parents... ;)

[cedarblue]

or you could pm each other ;)

[mysh]

After wuggy posted about her own brave confrontation with a parent's greatest fear - her child's tears (see here (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1383) ), I was inspired to maybe do the same with mine. But I don't know how.

When I went veg*n, I told my children (boy, aged 5 at the time, girl, aged 3 at the time). Now they're 6 and 4. For my daughter, it was too abstract to really understand. With my son I went somewhat over the top, by constantly confronting him with meat being killed animals, etc. My wife luckily put stop to that very quickly.
So, my wife, being the supportive soul that she is, helped me turn the household into an ovo-lacto vegetarian one. When I told my son that they're not getting meat anymore, he pleaded with me, in tears, to still be allowed cheese. How could I resist?

Some time later, he asked me to be allowed to eat chicken again. I asked him if he understood the significance of eating meat, i.e., that a chicken had to die for his meal. He did, and seemed to be ok with it (!). So I made a deal with him that he can eat chicken in restaurants, an we would talk about it again in a year's time.

Both of my children are rather picky eaters (dunno how that happened - I'll eat anything). Both of them loooooove cheese pizza (obviously, with sauce, too), and we often make that ourselves at home, with my part having no cheese, and lots of other good stuff instead :) . It's also something easy to find at restaurants. My son loves bread, pb&js, yoghurt, peanut buter, milk, pancakes, waffles, cheese, some cereals (not always with milk), pita, flat bread. My daughter likes some breads, pb&js with very very thin pb, yoghurt, milk, cheese, some cereals, and nuts. They have both tried soy milk, and didn't like it much (which I can understand, as it does taste very yeasty). Oh, and of course, they both love chocolate.

Now, I am very very bothered by my son's desire to eat chicken at restaurants, however I want him to arrive at the logical conclusion on his own. I would also like to move them both towards veganism.

My children are both very sensitive (they get terrified by most Disney movies), which I am happy about - I definitely don't want them losing that!
They are also both very stubborn, so me telling them what to do is rarely successful.
They are both very supportive of my choices, and will make me soy-based "food" in the toy kitchen. Even sometimes "soy vegetables" :)

Any advice on how to convert them with a minimum of trauma would be very appreciated!

[ConsciousCuisine]

Yes, we could simply PM one another, but surely Mysh isn't the only one who is interested in this topic. I know other people are interested in openly sharing on the topic of being a Vegan Partent and how we approach and apply Veganism with our child/ren... :)

[mysh]

I started the thread here (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1386) .

cedarblue - I think other parents, especially those new to veganism, might like similar advice, too.

[Andie]

Keep doing what your doing. It's a fine line between standing up for your values and not creating meat and cheese eating rebels.
At ages six and four they may just not be developmentally able to really "get it" that the stuff on their plate was once alive. Kids don't always understand death.

[mysh]

That's how I've been going up to now. My son for sure understands death. One of my friends died early this year, and we had many long talks about it. My daughter still equates death with sleeping, or being away somewhere from where you can return. But she also doesn't want chicken. She wants bacon and sausages, which ain't gonna happen - it's been proven that BSE can easily transform in to Porcine Spongiform Encephalitis, and I'm not going to expose my children to the potential of vCJD!

But your point about not creating the rebels is exactly why I'm not pushing it (for now)!

[Artichoke47]

Well, you are the parent and you are deciding to buy non-vegan products for your children. I don't quite understand this. If you have a moral problem with killing chickens for food, why are you buying it and feeding it to your son? Why would you feed them cow milk products, which are proven to be unhealthy, causing many health problems, including diabetes, cancer, heart disease, obesity? Why would you support the cruel industries?

I understand that being "strict" with your children may have a poor effect later on if they want to rebel, but omnivore parents are also "strict," oftentimes forcing their children to eat flesh and cow milk, even though the children do not like such foods. Better to be "strict" and support a healthy, balanced, cruelty-free diet than an omnivore one.

I don't have kids, but if I do decide to have them, I will only have children with a vegan and the children will also be vegan. Hell, my cat is a vegan and doesn't mind! :)

[Hasha]

It's not that simple, Artichoke. If you're raising your children vegan, the society is almost guaranteed to see it as your imposing veganism on your children. The last thing that you want is to have your children agree. If they feel that a vegan diet is imposed on them, they will sneakily eat animal products in their friends' houses, and once they become independent, they'll become omnivores with a sad story of a deprived childhood. The trick is to make your children internalize the vegan values so that they actually want to be vegans. I don't really have any advice about how to make this happen, but I do appreciate what mysh is trying to achieve.

[mysh]

I understand that being "strict" with your children may have a poor effect later on if they want to rebel, but omnivore parents are also "strict," oftentimes forcing their children to eat flesh and cow milk, even though the children do not like such foods. Better to be "strict" and support a healthy, balanced, cruelty-free diet than an omnivore one.

Oh, right, so you're saying, in effect, if it's good enough for an omni, it's good enough for me? Interesting position...
I think you'll find that it's better to teach things like caring and ethics, rather than imposing them. Right now, I'm teaching by example, and have already seen some effects. But I would like to speed those up, some.


I don't have kids,

Obviously.


but if I do decide to have them, I will only have children with a vegan and the children will also be vegan.

It's easier bringing them up that way, than converting them. Most children thrive on routine. Breaking this routine can have quite unpleasant side-effects, depending on how deeply ingrained it is. And it doesn't get any deeper ingrained than food!


Well, you are the parent and you are deciding to buy non-vegan products for your children. I don't quite understand this. If you have a moral problem with killing chickens for food, why are you buying it and feeding it to your son? Why would you feed them cow milk products, which are proven to be unhealthy, causing many health problems, including diabetes, cancer, heart disease, obesity? Why would you support the cruel industries?

And this is why I am here asking for advice. Being a parent should be entirely unlike being a dictator. I do not own my children - I am simply keeping them safe until they can take care of themselves, giving them a loving, nurturing environment in the meantime. Sometimes I forget that, and it (almost) never works out in my favour.

If you do have any suggestions, I would be more than happy to hear them.

[Artichoke47]

Oh, but I don't have children, so my advice OBVIOUSLY isn't good enough for you. Apparently, it's also SIMPLE.

I'm done with this.

[mysh]

Thank you, Hasha - I guess I was a little too slow with my typing... :)

Incidentally, when I went veg*n, I tried to guilt my wife into stopping her carnivorous habits. She, quite rightly, resented my behaviour. Once I realised what I was doing, and how it was afecting her, I stopped. And left a PETA guide lieing around. She hasn't touched meat since (well, except animal-derived ingredients in processed foods).

This is what I want to achieve with my children, but without the trauma of PETA literature. ;)

[Artichoke47]

It's ignorant people like this that really make parents look bad, trying to act as if you have to have children to understand different concepts. Of the people that I know, most of them started acting like idiots after they had children, so don't sit there and act like just because you had sex and produced a child it makes you more intelligent than other people. ANYONE who is sexually mature can produce a child. You are no greater than the rest of us childless members. Maybe you should specify next time if you want to limit the responses to certain people.

[mysh]

The 'Obviously' comment was meant as a joke. I guess it didn't work...
I know perfectly well that having children doesn't make anyone a guru - especially not on children! Nor does it make most people act like idiots (contrary to your sample).

All you did in your response was criticise my choices - exactly the same ones I'm currently anguishing about. Not exactly what one might term "supportive". If you want to come over and tell my son he can't eat chicken anymore, nor have any dairy, or cakes at birthday parties, etc., come on over. If you can withstand his tears, you're more of a man than I am. But I am willing to listen to suggestions - just not "don't let them have it" suggestions. As you may have noticed from the list of things my kids eat, they get most of their protein from animal derived stuff. So how do I change that? I would love to, but I just don't know how.