Circumcision or no circumcision?

[Yoggy]

I know this isn't really a vegan topic, but I thought it belonged in the Parents subforum (Korn feel free to move this thread somewhere more appropriate if necessary:))

Just wondering how many of you have had your son(s) circumcised, or will do so if you have a son. Personally, I wouldn't want to, since I believe that it's healthier and more natural to leave them the way they are, but I'd like to hear others' opinions on this.

[rantipole]

I doubt I'll become a parent, but if I did there is no way I'd circumcise my son. First of all, it is mutilation without consent (much like ear-cropping and declawing). Second, there is no hard evidence of any health benefits (it does seem to reduce spreading of HIV, but just teach your son to wear a condom). Third, it does reduce sexual pleasure, supposedly for both the man and woman (I'm a circumcised gay man, so I can't know that for sure).

I hope there comes a day when this is viewed in the same light as female genital mutilation. There really is no reason for circumcision other than cultural. It is frequently done without anasthesia, which should classify it as torture.

OK, enough of my ranting. Don't snip your son!

Cheers,
rant

[Yoggy]

I think many people are starting to share your view on this, Rantipole. I've heard that pretty much everywhere in the world outside of North America, circumcised men are by far in the minority. I wonder why it's still so popular in North America :confused:

[Gorilla]

i've wondered why it seems to be common in America - it really isn't common in the UK as far as i can tell. my cousin needed to have it done for medical reasons when he was a teenager, but i've never understood the point of it otherwise :confused:

[harpy]

I believe people in America often do it for "hygienic" reasons? Washing seems to be a good alternative in that case. It seems mean to do it to someone who's too young to consent, particularly without an anaesthetic.

[Wanda]

We chose not to have our little boy circumsized.
This link (http://www.circumcision.org/) has great information!

[Roxy]

Well I have to be honest.......the only uncircumsized penis I've ever been with was a lot smellier and didn't seem as fresh and clean as the circumsized ones I've been with. I think it had to do with pee and dead skin cells getting trapped under the foreskin - but I don't really know.

The guy who had the uncircumsized penis did shower twice a day, so maybe he just didn't wash it properly :confused:

[Yoggy]

I don't have a problem with the smell. It's definitely a unique smell, but not bad in my opinion. But my uncircumcised BF was very good at washing, and since I'm pretty germ-conscious and wouldn't engage in any sexual activity unless he had showered recently, I only noticed a mild smell.

Regardless, I definitely think it shouldn't be the parents' choice to circumcise, it should be the child's when he's old enough.

[DancingWillow]

yoggy, i hope you don't think it's too personal of me to ask, but is your bf considering getting circumcised? if yes, what are his reasons for wanting to?

i cringe even imagining how painful it must be, and if i were a guy, i don't think i'd want to be circumcised. i agree that parents should not make that decision on behalf of their child.

[Yoggy]

Hi DancingWillow. No, he's definitely not considering it. I'm glad because it means there won't be any debate in that area if we have kids, since I'm against having it done to infants. But every other male in my family (that I know of anyway) is circumcised, and I know it's really common in Canada, and more so in the U.S. So I was just curious about others' opinions on it, if they would have it done to their sons then why/why not, etc. Strange topic for me to be curious about, but there you go :D.

[DancingWillow]

lol:) it is strange how common it is, so i'm interested in others' opinions as well.

[eve]

All my sons were circumcised on their 8th day. The penises of uncircumcised men look yukky to me, but that's just me. :D

[Roxy]

And just WHAT have you been doing :cool: down at the pool each morning Eve? ;) :D

[eve]

I'll ignore that, Roxy, I was recalling incidents during my long life ;)

[Roxy]

:D

[Yoggy]

I sometimes think it's strange that people say it's hard to keep clean, etc, since I think it's harder for a girl to keep herself clean (at least for me, I'm not satisfied with just aiming the water in that general direction... too much information? LOL). But they don't do anything to girls to make cleaning easier. Everyone just needs to be taught good hygiene.

[hollybee]

My son is not circumcised-I would not have allowed it even if my husband had wanted it done.
Many years ago, I saw a news story where they had taped a newborn baby's screams as he was circumcised. It was just horrifying. Doctors won't use anesthetic on a baby that young-they say it's dangerous.
My husband is not circumcised either, and I have never noticed any odor about him. He's very clean.

[nickn505]

I'm unsnipped. I wouldn't circumcise my future children for the reasons you all have stated.

As for circumcision here in the states, it's basically a cultural thing. If the father is circumcised there's a good chance the son will be. When asked how this came about historically everyone will tell you it's for hygenic and religious reasons. I've talked to a professor of mine who's researched this issue and he tells me this isn't true. Most people here don't know about the religious and hygenic theories and like I said, It's just a traditional family and cultural thing. My professor states it wasn't common in North America until the Victorian era when popular belief was that if you masturbated frequently you'd go crazy. It was believed that circumcision would make it harder for a man to masturbate, therefore circumcision gained popularity.

[sugarmouse]

I dont agree with it. Its obviously not meant to be done so why do it. Hygeine is important.

[Mahk]

The penises of uncircumcised men look yukky to me,

Eve, Out of curiosity, what would your reaction be to a male on the forum writing that he thought some female genitalia looked "yucky"?

[eve]

Mahk, what is it about you Americans who do not understand irony?

Incidentally, when each of my 4 sons were circumcised, there was no anaestheic, but I dipped my finger in a little glass of wine, and they sucked happily on my finger. So where the tape recording of a newborn baby's screams came from I don't know - it is usually done on the 8th day. Another point, when I worked for 7 years or so with the hiv/aids clinic in Sydney, we had reports that uncircumcised men had a much higher incidence of the virus.

As nickn505 says, it's just a traditional family and cultural thing, no big deal, not enough to get annoyed about. :)

[cvC]

I note that, as well as insulting Mahk and other Americans, making what I'm sure is a false statement, you didn't answer his question, Eve.

Circumcision is an issue that does upset me somewhat and I can't say I'm happy that I was mutilated in this way. This is from site that's against it:

"Did you know -

* that most men in the world and the great majority of men in Europe, Scandinavia, Central and South America or Asia are not circumcised?
* that "medical" infant circumcision was introduced to prevent masturbation?
* that until a few decades ago, female genital cutting was promoted in the western world for many of the same reasons as male circumcision?
* that infant circumcision was fashionable in the English-speaking world 50 years ago but is now rare (except in the US)?
* that babies are strapped down to be circumcised?
* that circumcision with a PlastiBellTM does involve cutting?
* that before the foreskin can be cut (or crushed) off, it must be torn away from the glans?
* that circumcision removes 50% of the skin of the penis?
* that no medical association anywhere in the world supports neonatal circumcision (male or female) on medical grounds?"

http://www.circumstitions.com/

I won't pretend to understand all this, but here are some verses from the book of Galatians in the (KJV) New Testament that mention circumcision:

"2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=5&version=9

[Risker]

no big deal, not enough to get annoyed about. :)

Sorry I disagree, mutilating the most vulnerable members of society without their permission is more than enough to annoy me.

I don't think you're a bad person for having had it done but I do think it's bad that society allows and even encourages it.

Likewise I think it's terrible when I see babies with pierced ears - Children are not their parents property and shouldn't be allowed to damage their bodies for their own vanity.

[sugarmouse]

I think it is a big deal.My father is still scarred as he remembers having it done. and although I am not a misanthropist and therefore not huge advocator of human rights i agree that it shoiuld not be ok to mutilate a persons body when they are too young to give input.

[Mahk]

Mahk, what is it about you Americans who do not understand irony?

Eve, It’s good to see you were not being sincere when you wrote, “The penises of uncircumcised men look yukky to me”.
Since you don’t answer my question directly, I’ll assume that, like me, you would be very upset if you saw a male on this forum post a statement like, “I don’t like women with small breasts, I think they are yucky.” I‘m sure you’ll agree; making fun of or belittling other people’s body parts is not part of a polite, adult conversation. Also, please excuse my failure in recognizing your statement as being ironic; I’m just an American.:rolleyes: