standing up for my veganism? help please!

[sandra]

If people ask me what a vegan is or why I'm vegan, I always tell them. The other day at the supermarket the boy at the checkout commented on what I was buying, I told him I was vegan. He said he didn't know the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan so I told him. It really started him thinking, he was asking all sorts of questions..............he even said he was going to try to eat more 'healthily' and try to eat more fruit (as he didn't like fruit). So, if someone is interested enough to ask a question, I always try and answer it...........you never know it could plant a seed! :)

[flying plum]

alix - had a moment like that yesterday. a friend of mine asked me why i was vegan at lunch yesterday, and for some reason, i've had a lot of people ask me this recently. i find it a little wearing, just because not many people ask the question prepared to listen to the answer. i started explaining about milk and how the dairy industry was the meat industry, whereupon my friend insisted that veal was from deer...

honestly, when you're up against that kind of ignorance, it's difficult not to scream and remain calm.

i do often find that people don't ask me because they want to know, but more that they want to pick holes in my argument. i always chalk this up to the fact that they're asking it just to set their conscience to rest. if they can find fault with my argument, then theirs must be right. i found it while i was veggie, and i find it more now i'm vegan. the only thing i find with veganism is that i have stronger arguments than 'i think it's mean'. i've developed a better philosophy, and feel that i can argue it better.

but usually, if someone just starts picking a fight, i must confess there are a lot of times i just can't be bothered. i know that's not the best approach, and ti won't spread the word, but y'know...

amanda

[liusaidh]

hi all, i've been a vegan for about four years and i do it for the animals. i just cannot agree with exploiting animals for our own benefit.
BUT i'm really rubbish at sticking up for myself/my veganism when people start getting at me. although i cannot really explain why i'm a vegan, i just know i'm doing the right thing.
anyway, the usual things they throw at me are "But if no one ate the cows, the world would be over-run with them...where would they all go? they'd all die anyway..." and "if no one milked them, they'd get really ill" and of course, "We're at the top of the food chain...we're MEANT to eat animals!" this last one is the only one i can respond too - in my opinion, we're at the top of the food chain and therefore we have a RESPONSIBILITY to look after those under us, not a RIGHT to abuse them. however, i'm really stuck on how to respond to all the other rubbish they throw at me. what would happen if no one ate the cows??? sorry if this sounds dumb but i could really use the feedback, thanks!
happy veganising, tri :)


We're not at the top of the foodchain, most animals would successfully maul us! It's just because we're not living naturally.. we cage the animals that could kill us and use machinery to cut up the animals we could definitely not kill my hand! I say we.. I mean THEY.

Cows only produce milk when they've had a calf, farms artificially inseminate them to produce milk.. do women produce milk unless they've had a baby? Nope.

Look at our teeth? Do they look like dog teeth? No... We're not supposed to eat meat!

[zendogjoe]

Sometimes the easiest thing is just to be simple and direct. I tell people: I'm a vegan because I don't want to hurt animals.

If they challenge that by saying they don't care about the animals they consume, tell them that you guess your position says something about you and their position says something about them.

Remember, in most cases, you'll be challenged by people who don't want to feel guilty for causing the deaths of animals. By putting you on the defensive with some silly put-down or pseudo-intellectual argument, they're just trying to soothe their own conscience.

Another option: Tell them you don't want your stomach to be a graveyard.

Hang tough.

[Legit Ballin]

ive found that perhaps not focusing on the animals loving as much and telling them about the disgusting parts of dairy and meat seems to not only end ridicule but at times persuade as well. for instance, my best friend supports me in my decision all the way but at one point asked why i had gone vegan (since it kind of came out of nowhere). the first thing i told her about was the trace amounts of blood and puss in milk and other dairy products. not only did the conversation end right then and there, but she can no longer enjoy her morning glass of milk.

[frank language]

the first thing i told her about was the trace amounts of blood and puss in milk and other dairy products.
Not to mention the fecal matter...think about it. Can you milk a cow from that end and totally avoid getting a little fecal matter mixed in with the milk?

[twinkle]

Actually, I would think you probably can - don't they just jam the suckers onto a cow's teats and then whip them off again when it's all been sucked out? If you use that argument on anyone who's seen a "how it's made" docu they'll probably dismiss your whole argument if you don't get one bit right.

[cobweb]

Yes, i thought that, Twinkle - the udders are nowhere near the poo producing part :eek:

[frank language]

Yes, i thought that, Twinkle - the udders are nowhere near the poo producing part :eek:
But the fact is that shit does get into the milk! Even if it's possible to do a job cleanly every time, it's also possible to fumble it; that's my point.

[cobweb]

Does it? - there's proof that it does, yes?.
It doesn't really matter to me atall, the whole concept is disgusting but facts do seem to matter to those who drink the stuff :mad: .

[absentmindedfan]

I doubt you'd find shit in milk. Blood and pus yes.
You will find shit in meat however; cutting open a cow with four stomachs and an enormous, full, digestive system makes alot of mess in the abbatoir, and that shit gets on the flesh. If someone attests that abbatoirs have to be clean ask them how a killing line can process one cow every 30 seconds cleanly and with no mistakes. Even if they are clean, sanitary places (ha ha ha yeah right) human error will come into it.

I think everyone who wants to eat meat can do so, if they work in an abbatoir for a day first. If after looking those animals in the eye they can still eat meat then fine, they can eat in. In prison. Because they must be disturbed, empathy-less psychopaths.

[sandra]

God that's horrific AMF......................I would love all meat eaters to have to go and witness that. I woke up last night at about 4am and the awful realisation of what happens to animals in those places just hit me once again..............it's unbelievable that humans do that to other animals and thing it's normal and right.

[Roxy]

Just watch the movie, Fast Food Nation. Actually you might not want to because there are some horrific scenes in that movie, however a big focus point is how there is shit in the meat because of the procedures that Amy described.

[cobweb]

I agree with Absent, it ought to be a compulsory part of all meat-eating childrens secondary schooling :mad: .

[thealyssa]

This is a really great resource for you:
http://www.vegsource.com/how_to_win.htm

as for my own answers to these, I get frustrated by all the assumptions that people are vegan for the animals alone. I usually say "well, i actually began being a vegetarian because I didn't enjoy the taste of meat. And as time went on, I learned that it was doing good for the animals, the environment, my health, famine and poverty, etc. And so now, I can't find a good reason not to be a vegan." Sometimes I throw in statistics. Nobody argues with statistics! ha-ha.

And when it comes to milk, whenever they ask me about it, I usually laugh and say "do you realize that we are the only mammals that drink another mammals milk? Let alone past infancy! That is so weird! How could I drink that -- I am permanently wigged out by milk!"

The only tough argument I came against were the bloodtype people...which I could not refute since I had never heard of it before, but I have learned (first thing I did when I went home!) that it is an ill-founded argument. I contacted a couple of doctors and they told me there was no way that what you eat is going to affect the antigens in your blood. Most of the articles I found discredited the study. This one is the best and most detailed, written by a couple of doctors.

http://veg.ca/content/view/128/110/

It's stupid because its based on when your blood type was 'discovered' in history. The Blood type O diet is for those originating from hunters and gatherer families. It says that our antigens have a sort of memory as to what we should eat at the time, and hunter-gatherer societies ate the most meat. There are a couple things wrong with this:
1) out meat consumption has increased over time, and hunter-gathering societies were mostly close to starvation and needed to rely on a more lant-based diet. So, no way that should be the recommended diet for that group.
2) we ALL are from hunter-gather societies, it is stupid to assume that some people aren't, right?
3) what would be the new blood type to be discoered for todays society? would it require al "hungryman" frozen dinners and processed junk? It is, as another article said, science fiction
4) this is designed to help you LOOSE WEIGHT because it is a FAD DIET. The blood type O recommendation is the same as the atkins diet, and is in NO WAY good for health.

Most people you argue with will not know what they are talking about, so it will be difficult sometimes. I think as time goes on you know which battles to choose. For ones that I don't feel like arguing about, or I need to be polite, but I still want my opinion heard, I usually tell them that I am a vegan because "I feel better" and they may or not ask why. If they do, just tell them "oh, ethically, physically, etc." and just list them off like that. They usually won't press you further.

GOOD LUCK <3

[UnibrowSmith]

People are just ignorant sometimes. Last night my friend asked me..."ok i understand not eating meat, but how does drinking milk hurt the cow?" oh boy, did this get me started. It's like people think cows produce milk just for us or something, instead of for their babies just like every other mammal. I mean, if we were meant to drink milk, our mothers would still be lactating when we are 30. Drinking another animals milk just doesn't make sense. I told myfriends about how drinking milk means you are directly in favor of veal and about all the pus and chemicals that go into milk. After hearing this one of my friends said she never wanted to eat dairy products again. I don't try to convert people or force them to be vegans, but if you question why I am one...I'll tell you the reasons. I am surprised at how much people don't know. There are people out there who actually think "farms" are places where the cows and chickens and pigs roam free and are hand milked. It's disgusting how ignorant the vast majority of the population is when it comes to the meat industry.:mad:

[Kevster]

I don't try to convert people or force them to be vegans, but if you question why I am one...I'll tell you the reasons.

Indeed, i take that line at work especially.

[soyamilk]

"We're at the top of the food chain...we're MEANT to eat animals!"

To that stupid question i answer :

we are not anymore in the food chain. Because we live in super-cities, we drive car, we have supermarket... So there are no more reason to act like if we were in the food chain.
If you want to be in the food chain, go in the jungle, and try to catch an animals with your hand !