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RossClement
Apr 16th, 2007, 08:59 AM
Has anyone ever cooked porkless pork pies? I've been looking at various recipes, and it looks like it should be possible to produce a vegan version based on sosmix. The hot water pastry looks quite easy to make given that the fat will be mixed in as liquid. Anyone have experiences with hot water crust pastry in general?

Marrers
Apr 16th, 2007, 10:48 AM
Holland and Barrett sell porkless pies. Might be worth looking at what ingredients they use.

My best pastry ever was hot water pastry but I can't find the recipe now. You just pushed it into the dish rather than having to roll it out and my chef friend was very impressed with it.

RossClement
Apr 16th, 2007, 12:19 PM
Holland and Barrett sell porkless pies. Might be worth looking at what ingredients they use.

My best pastry ever was hot water pastry but I can't find the recipe now. You just pushed it into the dish rather than having to roll it out and my chef friend was very impressed with it.

Edit: Sorry, I misread your post, I thought you were suggesting the H&B porkless pies to buy instead of making them. You actually recommended that I steal the recipe.

I originally wrote:
I thought that the H&B porkless pork pies weren't vegan as they had egg in them. As I felt very cheated by that particularly since I saw them labelled as suitable for vegans on the shelf in a Brighton H&B, though H&B denied to me on the telephone that this could have been the case after the unlisted eggs were revealed.

I should have written:
I'll have a look at the ingredients for their porkless pork pies. But the meat-based recipes I've seen are generally quite consistent as to the spices (allspice, mace, pepper), and herbs (sage) used. So I guess that'll be the way to go.

There are lots of recipes for hot water pastry all over the internet, most of which don't use eggs. They use lard, but there are now non-hydrogenated solid vegetable fats that can be used. And I presume that subbing soya milk for milk will make no diff.

I'm very encouraged by the fact that some hot water pastry you made turned out well. Even if porkless pork pies don't turn out to be a good idea, an easy to make nice pastry would definitely have its uses. Do you think (or know) whether the hot water crust pastry would work for pasties?

flying plum
Apr 16th, 2007, 12:35 PM
i've got a great delia smith recipe for porkless pies that my mum's made before. it was before i was vegan, but i suspect any non-vegan bits can be veganised easily. i'll type it up when i get home :)

edit - I found the recipe on her site...but it calls for eggs and i'm not sure how easily they could be replaced, as i've never really attempted to make pastry...but here it is anyway if you're feeling adventurous :D

http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/not-pork-pies,1725,RC.html

amanda

twinkle
Apr 16th, 2007, 12:37 PM
unlisted egg in H&B pork pies??!?

RossClement
Apr 16th, 2007, 03:28 PM
unlisted egg in H&B pork pies??!?

This was several years ago, maybe about the year 1998,99, or 2000 or so. I'm unable to find the discussions from the time. But if my memory is correct, there were originally no eggs listed on the label. Then the recipe list changed to contain eggs. Many were upset at the time, particularly since the story was that the eggs had always been there, but not listed.

If the pork pies today don't have eggs in the ingredient list, then I'd expect them to be eggless. As I can't believe they'd just change the list again to exclude eggs if they were still there. And since the controversy was a long time ago, it's quite possible that the recipe has changed several times since then.

RossClement
Apr 16th, 2007, 03:30 PM
i've got a great delia smith recipe for porkless pies that my mum's made before. it was before i was vegan, but i suspect any non-vegan bits can be veganised easily. i'll type it up when i get home :)

edit - I found the recipe on her site...but it calls for eggs and i'm not sure how easily they could be replaced, as i've never really attempted to make pastry...but here it is anyway if you're feeling adventurous :D

http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/not-pork-pies,1725,RC.html

amanda

Thanks. I think I'll go for one of the eggless recipes as a first try. If you look up hot water pastry on wikipedia, it links to the wiki cookbook, which has a basic recipe. I'm hoping to pick up some mace and sage sometime in the next few days to have a first try.

Cumin
Apr 16th, 2007, 03:38 PM
This was several years ago, maybe about the year 1998,99, or 2000 or so. I'm unable to find the discussions from the time. But if my memory is correct, there were originally no eggs listed on the label. Then the recipe list changed to contain eggs. Many were upset at the time, particularly since the story was that the eggs had always been there, but not listed.

If the pork pies today don't have eggs in the ingredient list, then I'd expect them to be eggless. As I can't believe they'd just change the list again to exclude eggs if they were still there. And since the controversy was a long time ago, it's quite possible that the recipe has changed several times since then.

I spoke to H&B just a few months ago and they told me that all their pastry things are vegan unless they list obvious non-vegan ingredients. This must include the porkless pies, and I find it hard to believe they would put egg in them and not label them. I'm sure that would be against the trades description act. I will however, be contacting them again to check this out.

twinkle
Apr 16th, 2007, 03:55 PM
Hey RossClement - if you want fresh sage and live anywhere near LE1 I've got a ton in my garden :)

harpy
Apr 16th, 2007, 03:55 PM
Must say no pork pies seems to me to be one of the many positive side-effects of veganism :p My other half sometimes eats those H&B ones though.

RossClement
Apr 16th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Cumin: Your information considerably post-dates mine. But I bear a bit of a long-lasting grudge against their pastry products as I am sure I saw them labelled vegan and then found they weren't. I haven't checked the ingredients list since then.

Harpy: I'm not a great fan of porkless pork pies, but I would like to improve my skills in making savoury food such as savoury pasties. I thought I'd cracked this a few weeks ago when I made some simple Cornish-ish pasties with home-made pastry which I thought was great. But subsequent attempts to repeat the pastry didn't work out so well. Very disappointing, and I presume I was just lucky with my handling of the pastry the first time. So the hot water crust pastry is itself the major aim. But I'd also like to improve my skills using herbs and spices, and the pie mixture seems to depend on simple combinations of spices, perhaps a useful flavouring mix to learn in itself.

Twinkle: I live in LE3, but work in LE1. I cycle back and forward from work so a garden sage raid is probably possible. Tonight I have to leave early to take my son to the swimming pool, but the next few days are easier to plan around.

sugarmouse
Apr 16th, 2007, 11:51 PM
I have made them before. I just used a basic vegan pasty recipe, soy mince, and vegetable stock. I didnt even have a pie dish, I used a bowl!

my omni friends liked them, so they mustve been ok!

Marrers
Apr 17th, 2007, 02:20 AM
For some reason I did think the porkless pies were vegan but I never liked pork pies so have never tried one.


I would like to improve my skills in making savoury food such as savoury pasties.

I have two great pie recipes and they are really impressive for a dinner party - they look like giant pork pies really! You make them in a cake tin! There is a mushroom one and a sweetcorn and spinach one - far nicer than a porkless pie surely?!

I can dig out the recipes if you are interested but it may take me a day or two til I have time to get the book out and type it up.

RossClement
Apr 17th, 2007, 10:07 AM
I have two great pie recipes and they are really impressive for a dinner party - they look like giant pork pies really! You make them in a cake tin! There is a mushroom one and a sweetcorn and spinach one - far nicer than a porkless pie surely?!

I can dig out the recipes if you are interested but it may take me a day or two til I have time to get the book out and type it up.

Yes please. Any time is fine.

I made the wikipedia hot water crust pastry last night, and the pastry was horrid. Don't know if it was the recipe at fault or the way that I made it. The unmodified sosmix filling was quite nice though. It went quite firm and had a nice even texture.

Cumin
Apr 17th, 2007, 05:08 PM
FYI. I got a fresh reply from H&B :

"All except the obvious ones ie with cheese or egg are suitable for vegans."

Last time I looked, the porkless pies did not list either ingredient so they would be vegan.

Cloud_Child
Apr 26th, 2007, 12:04 AM
I have made pork pies with sosmix and have also been toying with the idea of using gelatine. Sosmix is brilliant for baking with it really works, i often use abit of stuffing mixed in with it. For pastry most are fine with vegan stuff, i think i often use a delia smith shortcrust or something and it works well.

Gorilla
Apr 26th, 2007, 10:39 AM
I have made pork pies with sosmix and have also been toying with the idea of using gelatine.

:confused:

harpy
Apr 26th, 2007, 11:39 AM
"Agar", shurely :D Mind you I can't quite imagine that in a pie.

Christina
Apr 26th, 2007, 07:19 PM
I have eaten one of the porkless pork pies from H&B. It made me throw it, it was very very very horrible. But that could have just been because I hated pork pies when I ate meat anyway.

RachelJune
Apr 26th, 2007, 07:42 PM
I'm ashamed to admit I actually liked pork pies before I went veggie (many many years ago), but oddly enough I used to like the pastry more than anything else and I'd leave most of the meat. Anyway, makes me feel gross just remembering it :eek:

I haven't had a H&B porkless pie for a while now, but they're not too bad. The pastry is still the best bit :) I struggle to eat a whole one though.

Frank
Apr 27th, 2007, 01:39 AM
Gelatine is an animal by product.

Their tendons/various other body parts etc all mashed up into (normally) a liquid.

Not to be used if you want a vegan diet.



I have made pork pies with sosmix and have also been toying with the idea of using gelatine. Sosmix is brilliant for baking with it really works, i often use abit of stuffing mixed in with it. For pastry most are fine with vegan stuff, i think i often use a delia smith shortcrust or something and it works well.

Frank
Apr 27th, 2007, 02:43 AM
Yes - agar agar would be a suitable vegetable 'gelatine'.

I used to eat 'porkless pies' purchased from the One Earth vegan shop in Birmingham. Can't remember the make off hand but if I come across them again, i'll post the ingredients list.


"Agar", shurely :D Mind you I can't quite imagine that in a pie.

aubergine
Apr 27th, 2007, 11:41 AM
Those Porkless Pies are great with some really really strong English Mustard.