Vaccinations

[kokopelli]

Apparently newborn babies can get it when their umbilical cord is cut if the knife isn't properly sterilised or if dirt gets in the stump, and also injecting drug addicts from dirty needles or not cleaning their skin first.

I must admit I didn't know all this before today. But it still comes down to hygiene.

[Dome]

It seems members here would rather stick (pardon the pun) with conventional wisdom or lack thereof and have cow pus and pathogens injected in their bodies than consider the alternatives. Whatever. I tried.

The vaccine police will have to hold a gun to my head before I'll get one myself again.

I guess I was wrong thinking that vegans are by nature progressive and open-minded, or maybe I'm just being ignored in the hopes I 'll take my radical ideas elsewhere.

[kokopelli]

It seems members here would rather stick (pardon the pun) with conventional wisdom or lack thereof and have cow pus and pathogens injected in their bodies than consider the alternatives. Whatever. I tried.

The vaccine police will have to hold a gun to my head before I'll get one myself again.

I guess I was wrong thinking that vegans are by nature progressive and open-minded, or maybe I'm just being ignored in the hopes I 'll take my radical ideas elsewhere.


:confused:

Dome, both stormypagan and I have said we haven't had our kids vaccinated.

This is a very difficult issue for anyone with children, there's so much pressure brought to bear to conform and the fear that you could be putting your children's health at risk. I think it's a matter of personal choice, people have to do what they feel comfortable with, based on their knowledge of the subject. I do agree that the information made widely available is very much one-sided, though, and it's definitely worth researching the subject as much as possible before making a decision.

[tails4wagging]

A few years ago, a dog bit my nose, I did not hesitate to get a tetanus jab and antibiotics.

[Stormypagan]

Hi Kokopelli and all :0)

Sorry been on my travels the last few weeks so havent been on to see the replies!!

I agree with the decision that vaccinating your children is a personal choice and it is a hard one to make in light of the authorities and the way they can make you have a guilt complex BUT I was determined and still am not to have my children vaccinated as the cons in my eyes far out way the pros, among other things.

Kokopelli all I know is that Horses are the main carriers and hence rose thorns due to the traddition of horse manue on roses. But yes it stays in the ground too. Thanks for the linked articles they were very informative.

Homeopathy is a good alternative although I haven't used them for my children as yet in relation to childhood disease etc.. Though I have used them. And I would use them for the whole family if the need arises.

Firstly, I am not a HOMEOPATH sadly but having looked it up in my Family guide to homeopathy book it advises that ...

Specific remedies to be taken every hour for up to 10 doses during a tetanus attack...
At first signs of muscle spasms Aconite 30c
Herad thrown back, muscles of the jaw and throat in spasm and jerking Cicuta 6c
Tetanus following a puncture wound or injury to a nerve, site of injury still very tender Hypericum 30c
Where jaw is locked Oenanthe 6c

Always clean wounds well with Hypericum and Calendula solution (5 drops of mother tincture of each in half pint of boiled cooled water)


Anyway, as I said this is from a book but if it can help thats cool!! But my advise is to see a professional homeopath anyway :0)

Love and light
Xxxx Stormy xxxX

[kokopelli]

Do you know whether there's a homeopathic preventative for tetanus, like a vaccine? Is there such a thing as a vaccine in homeopathy?

Anyway, cannabis has a very long history of use as a muscle relaxant and anti-convulsant in tetanus. It was used in this way by Victorian physicians. Also it's a very powerful neuroprotective agent.

Hopefully all these remedies won't be needed.

Probably best to avoid tetanus-inducing situations as far as possible and thoroughly clean all wounds.

[cedarblue]

i had my daughter immunised with all the 'recommended' jabs at the appropriate ages.....at the time i was not vegan and did not really understand the full implications of what being immunised, not having the jabs, their content etc, meant. also i must say that health visitors and doctors can use very immotive language and this can be very confusing and make you feel bad when you have babies/small children to consider.

would i still have had her immunised now, having more info??
to be honest i really dont know, i would have to take my husbands point of view into account as well and, as he isnt vegan, may be different to mine.

this can be a tricky situ for some folk :(


- also my husband has yearly flu jabs as he has asthma (as does daughter) and was very ill about 10yrs ago with bronchitis following a chest infection from a bout of flu - its his health so his decision, but i would not like to see him ill like that again. i encourage him to take vit c and echinacea over the winter too.


well a year later and now i think i would still have had my daughter vaccinated - for me and the information i have considered, the potential risks from some of these diseases out weigh the risks from the vaccination.

[bittersweet]

I decided not to have my kids done with MMR (although Tom had his Dip-Tet and Polio)...very glad now Aly has turned out to have an extremely rare karyotype (read, unique as far as we know) and multiple allergies - God only knows what it might have done to her, and it's not like they do chromosomal testing before they jab needles into the little bairns...

[Stormypagan]

Hi :0)

At the end of the day it is a personal choice but there are risks on both sides. My belief in animal rights and good health has made me not want to immunise myself, my children or my animals. I had very few vaccinations as a child as my own mother, although not animal rights/vegan didn't have much trust in them and consequently I didnt have all of them. I know I have a life time immunity to german measles and a few other illnesses now.

I believe we actually keep the diseases alive by vaccinating, for example polio is a live vaccine and is flushed in to our water systems through babies nappies ... who knows when an epidemic will happen. The health authoriteis say we have wiped out certain diseases due to vaccines but the truth is they tend to change the names of the disease, I believe they would have died out naturally by now, if more people had natural immunity for life!!

We also don't know the long term effects of vaccines on the body like allergies such as asthma etc... I have a mild asthma and maybe I did develop it through the few vaccines I did have, who knows???

Furthermore, some vaccines are cultured on the bellies of calves which alone is the abuse of animals but we also have risk from BSE etc.. from the blood of possibly infected animals used.

As children we are more likely to sail through childhood diseases if we are healthy, emotionally and physically, and vaccinations only really cover us in childhood. As adults we are not covered as such. Catching an illness will give us a life time immunity a vaccination wont. I didn't get chicken pox as a child although many do like my son. He is now immune for life, and now I am as I did catch it in my twenties. And have to say it was really bad having it as an adult compared to my son who seemed to sail through it. But now they are trying to introduce a vaccine for chickenpox yet again to line the pockets of the pharmacutical companies and the capitalist system that doesn't want to lose work days due to illness

Anyway, as I said we still have freedom of choice but I would rather go the alternative route and seek natural immunisation for life, or homeopathy if needed.

Love and light
Xxxx Stormy xxxX

[Roxy]

I don't ever get vaccinated against the flu, because I don't think I need to. I'm not sure weather flu shots are vegan or not - but the thought of being injected with a virus, scares me.

Here is an article which says that 2 new studies claim the flu vaccine is less effective than previously thought.

Should you get a flu shot? (http://www.canadianliving.com/CanadianLiving/client/en/Health/SpecialDetailNews.asp?idNews=232619&idSm=420&special=1)

[pat sommer]

News flash: the doctor involved in the MMR/autism scare is now being held to account for his dubious research and conflict of interest. He patented a single vaccine.

Take up is still recovering and measels is running high. Fine for the folks who are looking out for their healthy children. How about the immune suppressed? How about the premies?

Well, there is always homeopathy -for those that respond well to placebos.
Vets don't do homeopathy for that reason.

[harpy]

FWIW, pat, our vets' practice does offer homeopathy, alongside conventional treatments.

I'm not at all convinced by it myself but as they are good vets otherwise I obediently accept the homeopathic pills they dish out, but don't worry too much if the cats won't take them in the prescribed manner ;)

[BlackCats]

Homeopathy took away my hayfever!!!!
I will keep repeating this until someone takes me seriously!!! (Sorry I probably have repeated this in a million threads):p

Honestly homeopathy really worked for me. I know it has been "scientifically proven" to be totally lame and bogus but it really helped me I was sneezing, coughing, eyes streaming and couldn't breathe some nights for about 8 YEARS until I took these homeopathic tablets from Holland and Barretts.

Whenever I meet my friend she is amazed that I am fine in summer now - I used to be so miserable.

Re: vaccinations I caught mumps a few years ago when I had it when I was younger and my GP told me it was impossible to have it twice! I said to him that I had it when I was younger and he just shrugged his shoulders.
He said to me it was impossible to have mumps twice in your life.

[Imported Memory]

Re: vaccinations I caught mumps a few years ago when I had it when I was younger and my GP told me it was impossible to have it twice! I said to him that I had it when I was younger and he just shrugged his shoulders.
He said to me it was impossible to have mumps twice in your life.

It's never impossible to get anything twice. It's not probable that you'd get mumps again, but it is possible, as with any virus, for it to resurface from it's dormant state within the body.

Your GP is should probably look for a new profession.

[Gorilla]

i was always told that if you only had swelling on one side of your throat when you had mumps, you could get it again. not sure how true that is though. it can be quite serious in adults.

personally i've had all the usual vaccines and i suppose i will have a tetanus booster when i need it (which will be in a few months i think!). hopefully i won't need any others in the future.

[veglover89]

what about travel? ie, areas where it's compulsory to have had a yellow fever vaccine. I am SO confused about what to do, I wanted to do some charity work, but have realised that for the area I'm going to I would definitely need a vaccine, just to actually enter the country. Now I feel put off the whole trip, just because I've read up on vaccines and they are definitely not animal-friendly. I'm really bad at making up my mind - help!

[angelamc]

Hi guys,
There are some great posts on this thread!:)
I'm leaning towards not vaccinating my children because of all the risk recently associated with vaccines and autism. I'm not completely decided though. The whooping cough stories are pretty scary! Some of my friends who have children have decided to partially vaccinate their children, avoiding the MMR vaccine cocktail and only administering vaccines as their children reach school age.

[pat sommer]

see #61 above. No link with autism, period. There are problems with vaccinations and not everyone should be vaccinated and that is why my fit and healthy 5 yr old and my man and I have all our jabs= to protect those that aren't. Grandmother has now passed away so it isn't quite so personal now.

As for Homeopathy, Aphrodite, some remedies work (aspirin) but not at those homeopathic-sugarpill-levels IMO. Given that our lifestyle and environment is always in flux, could it have been a coincidence?
But if it works for you, I am glad to hear it.

[BlackCats]

Sorry pat sommer I didn't notice your post.:)

I don't think it was a coincidence, I suppose there is a chance it could be but it seems unlikely to me? - I tried lots of hayfever remedies from Boots etc before I tried the homeopathic one which didn't even suppress any of my hayfever symptoms.:confused:
I suppose my symptoms could have just magically disappeared for other reasons but I tend to think it was the homeopathic tablets as I wasn't using anything else or doing anything different.:p

Anyway the important thing is my hayfever has gone permanently (hopefully) - huzzah

[pat sommer]

Yes, big congrats on your cure!

If a few sneezy seasons pass you by (so many different pollens) then you must be free and clear.

I suppose that I distinguish homeopathic preparations, such as aspirin or arnica from those sugar pills which chemically do not contain the named ingredient.
I was once told to increase my vitamin C after a homeopathic check (1 second arm strength test) and that probably helped my knee-injury recovery but those sugar pills never did anything for me for years. Now I turn them down from my dispensing friends in favor of other remedies.

I won't hesitate to give it another go if someone points out a remedy for acne rosacae; ain't peri-menopause full of surprises?

[sizeT]

Here, they can not be in school period without vaccinations. I am very against this, but as a teacher...I have to "support" and make sure I am keeping the kids without them out of school at all costs. We had a huge staff meeting this morning about it.
~Mel

every school has a special "waiver" vaccines are linked to autism and have mercury in them which destroys the brain.. vaccines also have animal in them. stay away from vaccines there here to destroy our well being..

[pat sommer]

Vaccines are not linked to Autism. No one who has seriously examined the hundreds of studies can show any association. But good money is being made at the expense of those who fear the vaccines.

[sizeT]

vaccines are deadly and are linked to autism
EDUCATE yourselves ( do your own research ) you will be suprised what you will find out!

Many of the vaccines contain a preservative called thiomersal, which is 49.6% mercury - a substance known to have neurotoxic effects, especially in infants whose brains are still developing.

people dont want you to beleive the link because they want you to get vaccinated. my friend recently had a baby and she was a great baby, never cried was just sweetest baby. and after her vaccine shot she was totally the opposite..
cried all the time, acted alot different. her mother commented on how her baby has changed but failed to recognize that it was because she recently had a vaccine shot.. I never said nothing. people are that dumbed down..

dont give your children vaccines if you care about them..
its not very hard to do research on this subject and find out the link between autism..
mind you not all children will get autism, but do you want to take that chance?

Keep your immune systems strong with organic
living foods, green superfoods, lots of vitamin C, exercise that you enjoy, lots of
sunshine and sleep, and positive, upbeat thoughts. Don't let some uncaring doctor
fill you or your loved ones with these
chemical horrors.


************************************************** ******
What is in a Vaccine?
Phenol (carbolic acid): A deadly poison; a common disinfectant and dye.
Formaldehyde: A known cancer-causing agent commonly used to embalm corpses.

Thimerosal (a mercury derivative) A toxic heavy metal that is not easily eliminated from the body; used as a preservative in vaccines. Can result in brain injury and autoimmune disease. In one study, Thimerosal was shown to be 4 to 6 times more toxic for human cells than for the staphylococci germs.
Alum A preservative.
Aluminum phosphate Toxic.

Aluminum & oil adjuvants Cancer-producing in laboratory mice; also associated with Alzheimer’s disease and seizures. Research findings strongly suggest that aluminum is neurotoxic. The main side effects of oil adjuvants have been hypersensitivity reactions, cysts and adjuvant arthritis.
Acetone A solvent used in fingernail polish remover.

Glycerin A tri-atomic alcohol extracted from natural fats which are putrefied and decomposed. Some toxic effects of glycerin are kidney, liver, lung damage, diuresis, pronounced local tissue damage, gastrointestinal damage and death.
Ethylene glycol Antifreeze.
Neomycin & Streptomycin Antibiotics; have caused allergic reactions.


Vaccine Fillers and Ingredients
In addition to the viral and bacterial RNA or DNA that is part of the vaccines, vaccine fillers and ingredients include:
aluminum hydroxide
aluminum phosphate
ammonium sulfate
amphotericin B
animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
dog kidney, monkey kidney,
chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
calf (bovine) serum
betapropiolactone
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde
formalin
gelatin
glycerol
human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
hydrolized gelatin
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
neomycin
neomycin sulfate
phenol red indicator
phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
potassium diphosphate
potassium monophosphate
polymyxin B
polysorbate 20
polysorbate 80
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
residual MRC5 proteins
sorbitol
sucrose
thimerosal (mercury)
tri(n)butylphosphate
VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
washed sheep red blood cells
The above information was compiled from the following two publications:
What About Immunizations? Exposing the Vaccine Philosophy, by Cynthia Cournoyer. Nelson's Books. Santa Cruz CA 1995.
The Health Studio Newsletter (Volume 1, Oct. 1997) Vaccine Fillers and Ingredients

now does that look good to you?
take your life back educate yourselves....

thx

[John]

Supposing that vaccines are harmful, then it could be posed that it is even more unethical not to be vaccinated.

Simply put, if vaccines are risky and you are not vaccinated, then you are getting a free ride from all the other people who got the vaccine and ran the risk, while you are also serving as a possible vector for future infection.

If it were not for vaccines, we would almost all be grieving for those lost to common diseases and many of us would be dead.

That being said, the danger of vaccines is a valid concern and they really should be manufactured ethically and as safe as possible.

[sizeT]

Supposing that vaccines are harmful, then it could be posed that it is even more unethical not to be vaccinated.

Simply put, if vaccines are risky and you are not vaccinated, then you are getting a free ride from all the other people who got the vaccine and ran the risk, while you are also serving as a possible vector for future infection.


suppose vaccines are harmful? LOL did you look at the ingredients list?

i suppose you did by this reply: That being said, the danger of vaccines is a valid concern and they really should be manufactured ethically and as safe as possible.

Unethical to not get vaccinated? That's absurd. Vaccines are risky and they make people sick.. Look at the ingredients and tell me do you want that in your body? Your telling me that stuff is GOOD for you?

People ran the risk of vaccinating themselves because there parents were
Not educated enough in vaccines.. Simply put. Watch what happens to a baby after it gets its shots! Its shocking

"There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease."


there isn't any convincing evidence through the statistics that vaccination reduced the death rate for any disease such as measles. So, where is the benefit? Measles deaths had declined by 99.4% before vaccination!

Within a few years of the polio vaccine we started seeing some strange phenomena like the year before the first 300,000 doses were given in the United States childhood leukaemia had never struck in children under the age of two. One year after the first onslaught they had the first cases of children under the age of two that died of leukaemia........

Now 1 in 100 children have autism, 1 in 5 asthma, 1 in 10 dyslexia....... and the number one suspect is vaccination. The Government/Vaccine Industry is going to carry on vaccinating, covering up, and claiming vaccines are safe, until every other child has a vaccine induced disease, so only parent awareness is going to stop that.

There is no way even one of these highly toxic substances is going to be injected into my children. One estimate put mercury as 5,000 times the toxicity of lead, and neomycin (found in MMR) is one of the most toxic antibiotics every made.

Autism started just after mass mercury containing DPT vaccination, and no, I don't believe for a nanosecond it has appeared due to better diagnosis.

Mercury poisoning symptoms almost mimic autism symptoms. Now we have 500,000 people with autistic spectrum disorders in the UK.

"Vaccination programs were instituted in the late 1930s, and the first handful of autistic babies were noted in the early 1940s. When vaccination programs were expanded after the war, the number of autistic children increased greatly."

Numerous organisms (Acanthamoeba, Mycoplasma, Simian cytomegalovirus, stealth virus) can be in the vaccines and not much effort if going on to find them, for obvious reasons. SV40 cancer causing virus is now being found in tumours, and is still in polio vaccines:

"Stanley Kops....has produced proof positive that the oral polio vaccine has always been contaminated with SV-40, a monkey virus which has been linked by the FDA and other organisations with cancers such as mesothelioma and meduloblastoma. Since 1963, we have been assured that polio vaccines have not contained this deadly contaminant. Stanley Kops shows that not only is this not the case, but that the vaccine regulators who are charged with keeping our families safe, have known all along that SV-40 was never removed from vaccines."
Meryl W. Dorey

free ride? That's assuming I would get sick no matter what!
And if you got shots and I did get sick you would have nothing to worry about!
but your just assuming that what God made me, my ammune system is not good enough?
and i need to rely on mans cure!

are your saying since you got shots its my responsibility to do the same?

My family has never been vaccinated and we have never gotten a cold or the flu in our entire life.. Or anything. people not being vaccinated should have no effect on the people that have..