Vaccinations

[John]

Hey, you may be right for all I know. I'm no expert.

To me it's just about finding the method where the least people--and animals hopefully--suffer, even if both routes are deadly.

Also, we must remember that correlation does not imply causation.

[xrodolfox]

We are delaying vaccination as late as possible, and giving only vaccines that don't have thimerasol, and even then, giving only the ones nessesary and avoiding all others (vaccinating for whooping cough but not for varicella). We also don't "bunddle" up on vaccines, so that if there are any ill effects, they can really be traced and mitigated.

So far, our "extra cautious" approach has worked. We also do request vaccines that don't have egg products in them.

[sizeT]

thats a huge step!
what about vaccines without all the fillers?

[akaredarcher]

"Unethical to not get vaccinated? That's absurd."

Perhaps not. But that's your opinion, and you have the right to it. Ethics is a moral argument about what's 'right' and 'wrong', 'good' and 'bad'. Being vaccinated against a particular disease reduces its prevalence in the community - i.e. you can help protect those who are immunosuppressed by being vaccinated yourself (e.g. immunologically vulnerable people like people with AIDS, very young babies who are yet to be vaccinated, older people, people with cancer).

"Vaccines are risky and they make people sick. Look at the ingredients and tell me do you want that in your body? Your telling me that stuff is GOOD for you?"

Lots of things in life are risky. You've got to weigh up the risk for yourself and make the best decision that you can. I'm all for minimising risk (and this minimising possible harm), but I believe it is close to impossible to remove all risk from all activities in life, including healthcare and preventive medicine.

"There isn't any convincing evidence through the statistics that vaccination reduced the death rate for any disease such as measles."

Polio.

"People not being vaccinated should have no effect on the people that have."
Perhaps. But it does affect those who are unable to be vaccinated such as the immunosuppressed.


I love that people are really trying to engage their minds about this.

[sizeT]

Being vaccinated against a particular disease reduces its prevalence in the community - i.e. you can help protect those who are unsuppressed by being vaccinated yourself (e.g. immunologically vulnerable people like people with AIDS, very young babies who are yet to be vaccinated, older people, people with cancer).


it's not just my opinion! its millions of peoples opinions who have researched this themselves!
it's people that are not mind slaves. people that are not dumbed down by the controlled media outlets that tell you how to think or feel.. it's people that think and research themselves. its people that demand truth in all things. its people that know that who do the studies are the ones who benefit from the studies themselves.

I have never been vaccinated or my family and we have never had a cold or flu or anything. so me not being vaccinated is helping spread diseases in the community then? thats ludicrous

thats also assuming I would catch something and that i would pass that something to someone? theres alot of assuming going on around here!

even if people with weak immune systems can Keep your immune systems strong with organic living foods, green super foods, lots of vitamin C, exercise that you enjoy, lots of sunshine and sleep, and positive, upbeat thoughts.

Don't let some uncaring doctor
fill you or your loved ones with these
chemical horrors

I am SHOCKED at the VEGANS on this board that are endorsing a NON VEGAN PRODUCT!
I wish vegans cared about there health as much as animals

I found at the CDC’s website devoted to the influenza vaccine, a recommendation for the vaccine in the second trimester of pregnancy. Click This link below will take you to the CDC's actual recommendations. When you have time go read it. It is 63 pages!

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/rr/rr5004.pdf This vaccine contains 25 micro grams of ethyl Mercury in one dose. The CDC has studied 2000 pregnant women and no adverse fetal effects were found. They state additional studies are ongoing as data is limited with regard to the effects of low dose or intermittent exposures.
They also explain federal guidelines were not designed for intermittent or bolus exposures. The CDC believes that the average 110-pound woman is allowed to have 5 micro grams per day without adverse reactions. If she were to get a flu shot and have a tuna fish sandwich for lunch she would have just received 42 micro grams of Mercury, eight times the safe level.
The package inserts published by the flu vaccine manufacturers state that "Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with influenza virus vaccine.” It is also not known whether influenza virus vaccine can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman. If you look at the MSDS for Thimerosal, it says, "Exposure to mercury in utero and in children can cause mild to severe mental retardation and mild to severe motor coordination impairment." Eli Lilly MSDS June 13, 1991.

[Maisiepaisie]

I am SHOCKED at the VEGANS on this board that are endorsing a NON VEGAN PRODUCT!
I wish vegans cared about there health as much as animals
Yes its surprised me too. This is a health issue as well as an AR issue. Both my children were vaccinated as babies then I read some information similar to what sizeT is saying and since then I won't allow my children to be vaccinated. I remember when the meningitis vaccine came out and mothers just allow doctors to inject their kids with god knows what which is unbelievable but also there is the fact that no one knows what the long term side effects of a new vaccine may be. Thank God I had the knowledge by that time to not allow my kids to have the meningitis vaccine. If I was to have more children they would not be vaccinated at all.

[angelamc]

Thanks for the link, sizeT! As I stated earlier on this thread, I am leaning towards not vaccinating my children when the time comes. Does anyone have any other good books or resources that explain the risks associated with vaccines?
Angelamc

[John]

I am SHOCKED at the VEGANS on this board that are endorsing a NON VEGAN PRODUCT!
I wish vegans cared about there health as much as animals

Better a little bit of non-vegan vaccine than the loads of non-vegan resources that are needed for treatment and cures for sick people.

Vaccines often carry a risk. That is a fact. But vaccines causing autism is farfetched. It's natural for some parents facing the tough road of having an autistic child to be reeling and looking for a reason other than defective genes, but you have to look at these things rationally.

I've been vaccinated and I'm fine. So has almost everyone in the industrialized world. A healthy human being--even an infant--is resilient. We ingest toxins--natural and artificial--constantly. Please just weigh the facts and risks logically.

[pat sommer]

John, you are so sensible.

I would like to hear from some of the my-kids-are-healthy posters; how do they feel about those individuals that must avoid vaccination and who may not survive a serious illness?

Anyone up for a discussion there?

[xrodolfox]

I'm not sure what you mean, but I'm jumping in anyhow. ;)

My kids are getting vaccinated on a very late schedule, and we are opting out of a few vaccines (like Chicken pox).

I'm certainly fine with people who vaccinate (if they honestly consider the facts), as that is a risk, and those who don't (if they honestly consider the facts), as that's a risk too.

I think that herd immunity is great... unless you happen to be one of the ones who suffers ill effects from vaccines. For that reason, I think that MORE precaution should be taken with vaccines, although I think that vacines in general are a good idea.

Frankly, I would be much happier if those vaccines weren't produced solely for profit, as that makes me trust the balances for public safety and welfare a bit less trustworthy. I would also be much happier if vaccines were full of animal ingredients and toxic chemicals.

For that reason, we only vaccinate when it is clearly a better option, personally, such as for the whooping cough, but not for the flu or for chicken pox, even those those illnesses affect others more than the children.

I think that more caution is warranted than the dominant health community allows for.

[Otter_]

If you send your children to a public school, and in many US states private schools as well, they are required by law to be vaccinated.

How would one get around this?

[xrodolfox]

There are forms you can fill for exceptions. There are religious and other reasons for kids not be vaccinated, and public schools have to allow for kids from those homes to avoid vaccines, so there are papers that you can file. It just takes gumption and some perserverance.

It can be done!

[anula]

i had many vaccinations as a kid and really believe that alot of my ailments now are due to that. they are so very damaging esp when given early. ie, i had TB jab at age 6. Imagine the damage done when we inject the vibration of a disease into a body. Its madness.

Just by searching the web much info is available on how epidemics of disease have been more effectively controlled by other methods.... like most things that involve allopathic medicine and big business it is massive misinformation that we need vaccines. It thrives on instilling fear into parents. Look at some of the work by prominent nutrition therapists or homeopaths that clearly state diseases like mumps are supposed to happen. Childhood illness is there for a very good reason.... what about the evidence that having mumps as a kid can protect us from developing breast cancer.

The promotion of vaccination by doctors and governments esp those where there is no real risk of major disease amounts to nothng more than child abuse. If i was told my child could not attend play group or school being unvaccinated, then i would teach them at home.

I live in india for ten years, although i am english and i refuse to have any vaccinations.

[angelamc]

anula,
Do you have any recommendations for websites or books on the dangers of vaccines?
Angela

[anula]

http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/ is a good:rolleyes: place to start.

[Roxy]

Vaccines contain not only poisonous chemicals but also foreign proteins such as chick embryo, calf serum, rabbit brain tissue and monkey kidney cells.

I recently had to have a Hepatitis A vaccination for my new job. After researching the types of vaccinations available in Canada, I was able to receive one made with vegan ingredients. However, one of the vaccinations contained bovine albumen. Ick! I gave the nurse strict instructions that I was not to have that vaccine.

[angelamc]

Thanks for the link!

[puffin]

My kids are vaccinated, i had words with the doctor about my concerns but to be honest i wasnt going to risk my kids being seriously ill.
I was offered the flu vaccine but refused it, it is easy for me to make decisions on my own heath but im not willing to risk my kids.

[anula]

it depends on what you think is a risk to your kids. if you belive what the multi billion dollar drugs companies and doctors (who only know of allopathy, which is an incredibly new and largely untested medicine system tell you, ) then yes, not vaccinating your kids is a risk.

or you do your own research away from the profit riddled world of doctors and allopathy and see that from a holistic point vaccination is far more of a risk than the illness it claims to protect against, which may never happen anyway. Check out some of the work by Barbara Wren and some homoepathic studies done on vaccine and you may arrive at the understanding that nature provides illness as a way for the body to produce its own antibodies and protection as adults!!!!as i said in a previous comment, what if getting mumps as a kid protects us from breast cancer as an adult? what if the TB vaccine really does give us a dangerous pre-disposition to eating disorders?

[puffin]

Well i like to think i do the best for my children, not really concerned what anyone thinks is right.
Maybe my kids would have never got some terrible life threatening illness we are scared into thinking they will get, but i would never forgive myself if they did and i hadn't done all i could to protect them.
I had many debates with my doctor so please dont think i went into it with my eyes closed and my mind corrupted.

[tizer]

Both my parents were born in 1895! My father was the eldest of 12 siblings all of whom were born at home in relative primitive surroundings with a midwife in attendance. None of the children had vaccinations of any sort as it wasn't standard to vaccinate children in those days. I don't remember my parents every being ill with flu or any other common disease throughout their lives. Likewise I don't remember ever visiting a sick aunt or uncle in hospital. All those mentioned died of old age in their eighties and my mother's only sibling died aged 96 never having been ill for a single day!

I am in my mid 70s and was never vaccinated as a child (MMR was not around in those days) nor was my older brother. We have remained healthy like my parents and grandparents. Since becoming a pensioner I have never had the flu jab that every autumn the Government reminds people of my vintage to have. In all these years I have never had flu, yet I've known of people who had the jab and still got flu and in one case died.

Vaccinations are a marketing ploy by the pharmaceutical industry in connivance with the goverment to maximise their bulging profits. As vegans we should not be overly concerned about vaccinations as our diet should give strength to our natural immune system to protect us against viral infections. If necessary, we should boost our diet with multi-vitamins and herbal supplements during the winter months.
I would like to remind you that pharmaceutical drugs are the biggest killer after cancer and heart disease! so don't fall for the advertising hype put about by the industry or the government.

[peanutbutternutter]

vaccines are deadly and are linked to autism
EDUCATE yourselves ( do your own research ) you will be suprised what you will find out!



dont give your children vaccines if you care about them..
its not very hard to do research on this subject and find out the link between autism..
mind you not all children will get autism, but do you want to take that chance?

Keep your immune systems strong with organic
living foods, green superfoods, lots of vitamin C, exercise that you enjoy, lots of
sunshine and sleep, and positive, upbeat thoughts. Don't let some uncaring doctor
fill you or your loved ones with these
chemical horrors.


i agree
a good link: http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html

[cobweb]

i'm 50/50 on vaccines but i don't believe there is a proven link with autism.

[gliese876d]

I think choosing to vax or not vax is a very personal decision, but I think it's important to be sure you make an *educated* decision. You could start here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=47 You will find pro and anti-vax discussions and lots of resources.

Basically, I think one thing that seems to be lacking in this discussion is the consideration, not only of the safety of vaccines but their effectiveness as well, which is also quite controversial. Boiling it down to simply a possible risk of Autism is oversimplifying the issue. There are many other possible risks, including possible correlations with SIDS and autoimmune disorders (to list only a few) that should be weighed against possible risks of not vaccinating. Now, if these possible risk factors carried with them clear-cut, non-questioned benefits (ie. true immunity from a disease that would otherwise be deadly), then those risk factors may be worth it, and the non-vegan ingredients may also be worth it. However, the effectiveness of vaccinations is also a matter of debate. And in the end, it's a very mixed bag, so vaccination decisions are tantamount to a parental judgement call, and we should not condemn each other for what is ultimately decided. I have friends who vax and friends who don't and I think they are all responsible parents doing what they feel is the best for their children.

After considering each vaccine on its own merit, and weighing the risks and benefits of each individual vaccine, I completely stopped vaccinating my elder daughter at 9 months and my younger daughter has never been vaxed. I will re-investigate the chicken pox vax if they do not catch the disease naturally.


And just to make this point *very* clear: my daughter goes to a public school in the US!!! If school admission is your only reservation, provided you don't live in West Virginia or Alabama, DON'T let scaremongers lead you to believe you *must* have your child vaccinated for them to go to public school. This is an outright lie, and it very much upsets me that such misconceptions are spread by the establishment. EVERY state except the two mentioned has a religious and/or philosophical exemption to their laws. I should hope that regardless of our personal decisions, we could all agree that medical practices such as vaccinations should be carried out by informed consent, since this is a major pillar of medical ethics.

[tizer]

i'm 50/50 on vaccines but i don't believe there is a proven link with autism.