Vaccinations

[veganf]

We also do request vaccines that don't have egg products in them.

It was my understanding that all vaxes cultures are grown on chicken eggs.:confused:

[tizer]

A foundation populated by the giants of business, banking, government and military wants to “vet” websites and limit the spread of information that it says creates “conspiracy theories”. The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) says it is worried about the way the web has been “used to spread disinformation”. They want to introduce a new system that would give websites a label for trustworthiness or unreliability.

One “damaging conspiracy theory” they want to shut down is the notion that MMR vaccines are harmful. Of course, this “conspiracy theory” stems not from paranoid forum postings and misquoted blog entries, but from scientific research into the mercury based preservative thimerosal. Thimerosal was developed by Eli Lilly, and Merck is the world’s largest supplier of the MMR triple jab – and it is little wonder W3C considers such information to be “damaging” given that Eli Lilly and Merck are both paid up and approved members of the Consortium! If anyone should be labelled with an “unreliable” rating, it is the WC3.

Sources: Prison Planet September 15, 2008, BBC News September 15, 2008

[Gorilla]

I would rather teach the importance of safe sex (with condoms) than give this vaccine.

so would i, but the safe sex message obviously doesn't get through to some people, and isn't it better to stop girls dying of cervical cancer if possible? just a thought...

[orangefirefairy]

Hiya... I have two healthy boys (6 & 4) and i too after lots of research decided against following the immunisation programme on offer here in the UK. Both have been brought up Vegetarian until monday just gone as i have decided to work on a Vegan lifestyle now.

I know that this is a really hard decision for anyone to choose to opt out of and of course there will always be a chance of catching horrible deseases but i am of the oppinion that an un-compromised immune syetem will have the best chance of fighting anything that comes it's way.

I remember the govement rambling on about restricting benifits and not letting children go to school who are not immunised but to be honnest that just makes me even stronger in my belief that i am doing the right thing.

The global immunisation industry makes lots of money and is big business of which our govement makes monies out of. For example doctors recieving bonusus if a high percentage of patients are immunised.

I had a issue to conceider whilsit i was pregnant as i am R- and you are offerd an innoculation of ANTI D whilst you are pregnant and again after the child is born. This is due to possibility of me producing a R+ baby as my husband is R+ as as the anti bodies passed via the ambilical cord could harm myself and the baby.

So of couse i started to read about it and also asked my mid-wife to give me a list of what was in it. I did want to just blindly believe them as i find it hard to believe that i would try to kill my unborn baby inside me. Of course they has been rare cases of this otherwise it wouldnt be an issue but not in general for everyone.

So after reading the ingredients list i was presented with the fact they there was a good chance of other anti-bodies from other innoculations being in it ( a crafty way to blindly immunise) and that the other one they would guarentee wasnt in it was Yellow Fever. OMG! The human blood they wanted to put in me hadnt even been screened for AIDS. So it was a no-go for me and i was going to put my trust in nature and my second son came along with no issues and too is very healthy.

All i would suggest is that to immunise or not should be a fully informed decision, so hand on heart you can be happy with your decision

sorry for any spelling mistakes, never been very good at it

:)

[tizer]

It's that time of year when PCTs (your local NHS bodies) contact people of my vintage to get their annual flu shots. I've been receiving these letters now for the past 13 years and have consistently ignored the scare-laden wording to get myself 'immunised' against 'dread' diseases. I rely solely on my body's own immune system to ward off any flu or other disease prevelant at this time of year.
For those still undecided, I have a list of "Vaccines and Immunization References and Research Citations" -14 pages of A4 long - which I consider to be the 'last word' on this subject. This will put paid to all those who still believe in vaccinations.

[orangefirefairy]

That would make an interesting read if you have it on email :)

[herbwormwood]

I get offered the flu jab because I am on immunosupressive drugs and flu could kill me.
I know it only offers partial protection and its not vegan but I usually take it.
I have had a pneumo jab too.
If people are at high risk of death from vaccinateable diseases diseases then I think vaccination lowers the odds.
Age doesn't necessarily mean people will be immunosuppressed of course.

[kriz]

so would i, but the safe sex message obviously doesn't get through to some people, and isn't it better to stop girls dying of cervical cancer if possible? just a thought...

The safe sex message covers other serious stuff as well such as HIV. I'm not completely anti-vaccine, but I definitely don't think it's healthy to vaccinate against everything under the sun either. With other potentially deadly diseases there's less control in prevention because some are even airborne.

[Anouk]

Yes its surprised me too. This is a health issue as well as an AR issue. Both my children were vaccinated as babies then I read some information similar to what sizeT is saying and since then I won't allow my children to be vaccinated. I remember when the meningitis vaccine came out and mothers just allow doctors to inject their kids with god knows what which is unbelievable but also there is the fact that no one knows what the long term side effects of a new vaccine may be. Thank God I had the knowledge by that time to not allow my kids to have the meningitis vaccine. If I was to have more children they would not be vaccinated at all.


Could you share some of that info? I'm attending Faculty of Agriculture and we're required to get vaccinated towards meningitis (I hope it's not obligatory :S), and I'd like to learn more about that. Thanks!

[herbwormwood]

Meningitis vaccine is made from inactivated virus.
No doubt the school wants students vaccinated becaus their exposure to potential blood poisoning is higher, due to the nature of the work.
Theres a lot of info on meningitis here
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/meningitis.htm

[Quantum Mechanic]

Keep your immune systems strong with organic
living foods, green superfoods, lots of vitamin C, exercise that you enjoy, lots of
sunshine and sleep, and positive, upbeat thoughts.

I'm sure that works great for avoiding the common cold and flu (at least most of the time) and other general health benefits, but that won't keep you from getting polio or measles.


Mercury poisoning symptoms almost mimic autism symptoms. Now we have 500,000 people with autistic spectrum disorders in the UK.
No (at least to the first part).

From wikipedia:

Mercury poisoning:
-peripheral neuropathy, as itching, burning, or pain on skin, or as paresthesia (a sensation of tingling, pricking, or numbness of a person's skin with no apparent long-term physical effect. It is more generally known as the feeling of "pins and needles" or of a limb being "asleep")
-skin discoloration
-edema (swelling)
-desquamation (dead skin peels off in layers)
-hyperhidrosis (profuse sweating)
-tachycardia (persistently faster-than-normal heart beat)
-mercurial ptyalism (hypersalivation)
-hypertension (high blood pressure)


Affected children may show red cheeks and nose, erythematous lips (red lips), loss of hair, teeth, and nails, transient rashes, hypotonia (muscle weakness), and photophobia. Other symptoms may include kidney disfunction (e.g. Fanconi syndrome) or neuropsychiatric symptoms (emotional lability, memory impairment, insomnia).

Of all of these listed signs and symptoms, the only ones I see mimicking autism would be photophobia (as sensory sensitivity) and memory impairment, for autistics who have learning disabilities.

Autism (highly variable and individual so don't even try to think of this as a summary even, but things like gastrointestinal complaints and seizures aren't autism, though the latter are more common in autistic people):
-atypical socialization:
(could be characterized by avoiding people, playing alone, trying to join in a group but seeming really awkward, saying things considered socially "inappropriate" when that's not the intention, not responding to your name, not making eye contact, having difficulty reading body language or tone of voice, difficulty moderating your own volume or tone of voice)

-Atypical Communication

(such as difficulty or inability to initiate a conversation - or any speech at all; pronoun reversal; delayed and immediate echolalia - delayed echolalia would be repeating something later on, maybe hours, days, or years after it was heard, whereas immediate is immediate repetition; unusual body language; unusual play such as lining and stacking up objects)

-Repetitive Behavior
(such as hand flapping, toe walking, finger twisting, body rocking, head rolling - these are frequently called stimming in the autistic community. We also have difficulty switching gears, difficulty in starting, stopping, switching, stuff like that. We also tend to have certain compulsions, like putting things in certain orders that make sense to us according to specific and elaborate rules, or a routine to put the clothes on in a certain order, and there are specific rules to this too. There are also special interests, such as a fascination with a topic (such as autism, nutrition, ceiling fans, number theory)
-While not diagnostic, autistic people are much more likely than others to have savant ability (a significant ability such as perfect pitch or photographic memory, are examples of savant skills). To a lesser extent, most autistics have wide scatter in skills (for instance, on some subtests of the WAIS IQ test, I scored in the bottom 1%, whereas on other subtests I scored in the top 9%. Overall I scored in the bottom 15%, and it's pretty common even for people with much less dramatic scatter to have a verbal and performance score that are each a standard deviation or two apart).


Also, for those who aren't familiar much (or at all) with autism, or even those who are very familiar with autism, what always seems to trip this up, and cause people to associate these two (vaccines and autism), is this: autistic people commonly experience times of losing sets of skills previously acquired, that get called regressions. I know; I've experienced several of these "regressions" myself. Two of the most common time periods for regressions are toddlerhood and adolescence - which makes total sense, because it is a time when we are both expected to learn a lot of new skills, and a lot of new stresses may be introduced that can make already existing skills difficult to sustain.

For instance: I am a freshman in college, just moved out on my own, plenty of stress right there. Now not only am I expected to do new things independently, but the new stress of being in a new place (which can be HUGE for autistic people), resulted in that when I went on a bus line that I had practiced going on with my parents before they left, when I did it on my own, I completely forgot that you have to pull the cord for a stop, and tried to get off the bus without it even stopping, not to mention the loss of a whole lot of self-care skills in the last month or so.

So many autistic people experience regressions throughout their lives, and with regards to vaccinations, an interesting case to look at is the case where an individual is both autistic and has Down syndrome. Since it takes longer to come up with that many words, than for someone who is regressive autistic (but doesn't have Down syndrome), that age of loss of speech is much more correlated to age of acquisition of speech, than to age of MMR or other vaccinations.

Also, in twin studies, we already can confirm that autism is largely genetic. Two twins who have pretty much the same DNA (I believe the term is monozygous), if one is diagnosed with Kanner's autism, the other has a 60% chance of being diagnosed with the same, whereas 90% chance of being diagnosed with any ASD (autism, Asperger, PDD-NOS, etc.), though really the categorical distinctions aren't really that meaningful since the variation within each is so huge, and the commonality among them all is so much, and services are determined based upon individual skills assessment and not upon your diagnosis anyway, though in schools an Asperger dx or "high functioning" label can lead them to think you're WAY more "high functioning" than you are. But that's another topic.

Keep in mind, too, that for an autism spectrum diagnosis, a criterion you need to meet is a level of impairment in your day to day lives. A large number of autistic people learn to "fake normal", so that while they seem to be fairly functional on the outside, they may be struggling to get by on the inside, and their home may be a mess because they can't deal with the stress of it, and don't have the time to live a "normal life", go back and de-stress, and then do the daily living stuff that needs to be done. (For autistic people, stuff that most find relaxing, like socializing with friends, can be stressful, no matter how much we love the person and enjoy their company, it's just a physically exhausting act like if you have to run a marathon every time you have to talk on the phone).

So lots of people, some of whom really need services, some of whom really are quite successful on their own, are denied a diagnosis because they have learned to hide their autistic features in public, and then in private rock to their heart's content. But this is very stressful, and often leads to nervous breakdowns and depression, and is not something I would ever recommend unless it is necessary for survival. I remember before I was ever suspected to be autistic, in a public restroom I was flapping my hands, and my mom told me to stop that. I stopped shortly, but then soon enough, I started again, and she told me to stop again. Label or no, we get the message.

So people who are able to develop these "masks of normalcy" (whether they are truly able to cope underneath or they feel like they are dying inside), can well explain autistic people who have been able to "slide underneath the radar" so to speak, even in a time when people are supposed to be autism-aware. And I say supposed to be, because I was pretty obviously autistic when I was in kindergarten and first grade in '96 and '97 (was never in preschool), not responding to my name much, usually not participating and instead sorting buttons and beads or staring at the wall or ceiling for 2 hours or more, etc., but all they ever seemed to pick up on was unspecified "attention issues", but they didn't even evaluate further on that. So I suspect that that 90% figure, for people in the autistic spectrum, is only defining those who fit strict diagnostic criteria, and that if you looked later down the line, including those who were good at faking normal and those who had the traits but not "impaired" - then that figure would probably be much closer to 100%.

[Quantum Mechanic]

Could you share some of that info? I'm attending Faculty of Agriculture and we're required to get vaccinated towards meningitis (I hope it's not obligatory :S), and I'd like to learn more about that. Thanks!

Meningitis is awful, and bacterial meningitis has about a 10% death rate, with treatment I believe. And to diagnose it, they have to do a spinal tap which include having you be still a long time and stick a needle in your lower back to extract fluid from the spinal column, and then if it's bacterial meningitis then they will probably administer antibiotics through an IV.

This slideshow has some more info: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/tutorials/meningitis/htm/_yes_50_no_0.htm

[tizer]

Millions of teenage and pre-teen girls are having the Gardasil vaccine to protect against the HPV virus and cervical cancer - but have they, and their parents, been told the truth about the vaccine and its dangers? Drug regulators have received thousands of reports of serious side effects, ranging from paralysis, heart attack - and even death - in the two years since its launch in the USA.

So, if the vaccine is far more dangerous than we're being told, how come it's being pushed on millions of young girls around the world and how come the drug regulators aren't taking more of an interest in its safety? These answers - which every parent and young girl needs to hear - won't come from the vaccine's manufacturer, or from the regulators who we look to as guardians of our wellbeing. That's because Gardasil has been the subject of the greatest marketing campaign ever undertaken by a pharmaceutical company. The pre-launch marketing campaign was so effective that it was approved by regulators without one single long-term trial demonstrating either its safety or effectiveness.

And when the first trial was published - a year after it had been launched to the American public - it was effective in fewer than 20 per cent of cases in preventing early cervical lesions. Even now, no trial has ever been carried out among the population for whom it's aimed - preteen and teenage girls up to the age of 16. This has happened because Gardasil was given the type of marketing push usually reserved for a new motorcar or pair of jeans. By the time it was approved, everyone thought it was a necessary vaccine, and a 'good thing'.

So all you girls and mothers of girls take note and don’t be misled by the marketing hype!

[Ruby Rose]

^ Although Tizer has the right to his/her strongly held beliefs, the above post is simply factually incorrect. Even nothing more specialist than a Google search brings up details of numerous safety and efficacy trials, which were carried out before the drug was licensed (as is the law). The outcomes are closer to 100% than 20%.

I don't have the time (or frankly the inclination) to look at the medical publication registers to pull out all of the studies for this drug, but if you're considering not vaccinating yourself or your daughter on the grounds of the above post, please make sure you are fully informed before you do.

[Bunny]

^^ here here :)

[Mahk]

+1 to RubyRose. I did a little digging though and thought to pass on what I found for others wishing to explore Gardasil.


The pre-launch marketing campaign was so effective that it was approved by regulators without one single long-term trial demonstrating either its safety or effectiveness.

My research disagrees:

"The safety of the HPV vaccine was studied in 7 clinical trials before it was licensed. There were over 21,000 girls and women ages 9 through 26 in these clinical trials."

Source: Center for Disease Control and Prevention. (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaers/gardasil.htm)


These answers - which every parent and young girl needs to hear - won't come from the vaccine's manufacturer, or from the regulators who we look to as guardians of our wellbeing.[emphasis mine]

I can see how one could argue the manufacturer would have a financial motivation to murder/harm teen-aged girls and women in order to make a profit, but explain the logic why the doctors and scientists who are employed to monitor and watch out for the possible dangers of medicines/vaccines to the general public, such as the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, would benefit? :confused: Their decisions are based on scientific analysis (I assure you they don't go by "gut instinct" or falling for "marketing hype"; they go by numbers).

[snivelingchild]

What people need to realize is that this is a vaccine for an STD!!! They don't mention that because people don't want to think about their 16 year olds having unprotected sex. What about safe sex? Oh no, let's not even talk about it, let's try to make it mandatory for all young girls to be given these shots. Geez.

[Mahk]

^ The title of this John Hopkins Newsletter article (http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2007/04/05/Features/Safe-Sex.Wont.Protect.You.From.Hpv-2828077.shtml) says it all.

[bradders]

an important step forward for society would be for the abolition of the pharma industry and just have the researchers, universities and the NHS working together to do what is best for the patient not for profit. the old adage 'why sell one cure when you can sell a thousand palliatives' is particularly relevant. Up until I became vegan I was fully immunized (tetinus, hep a& b, mmr, bsg (tb), typhoid, rabies, polio and a few others from being a kid, , this year I haven't had the flue shot (for certain reasons that are long and drawn out I should) but it is a hard decision. Theoretically I do believe in vaccination. Obviousely not in the use of egg whites. I don't believe in vivisection I advocate human cell and chemical testig instead. I have and more than likely will have in the future drugs that have been tested on animals as there are no alternative to the drugs. In the meantime all I can do is petition for an end to animal testing.

[Quantum Mechanic]

Source: Center for Disease Control and Prevention. (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaers/gardasil.htm)

[emphasis mine]

I can see how one could argue the manufacturer would have a financial motivation to murder/harm teen-aged girls and women in order to make a profit, but explain the logic why the doctors and scientists who are employed to monitor and watch out for the possible dangers of medicines/vaccines to the general public, such as the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, would benefit? :confused: Their decisions are based on scientific analysis (I assure you they don't go by "gut instinct" or falling for "marketing hype"; they go by numbers).

Exactly. While there is a lot of corruption in the pharmaceutical industry, as often comes part and parcel with corporations, that doesn't provide sufficient explanation for the existence of a conspiracy. It's not like the scientists at the CDC huddle together and say "Hmm...how can we poison women and children for big bucks this year - any ideas Bob?"

[snivelingchild]

^ The title of this John Hopkins Newsletter article (http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2007/04/05/Features/Safe-Sex.Wont.Protect.You.From.Hpv-2828077.shtml) says it all.

I consider part of safe sex to be not having sex with someone until you have both been screened for STDs, unless neither of you had any previous partners. Putting on a rubber DOESN'T mean you're having safe sex in the least.

What I object to was the fact that the vaccine is being sold as a cancer preventative, and that is misleading. Especially when someone may end up having only one partner for life, and that vaccine was completely unnecessary. I would be appalled had my parents been forced to have me injected with Gardasil when I was 12, (there was a law proposed to make the vaccine mandatory to young girls) and exposed me to risks of a vaccine, no matter how RELATIVELY unlikely, for no reason.

No matter how pro-vaccine you are, any doctor who doesn't recognize the danger is giving many, unnecessary vaccines is stupid. Many vets recommend only giving your cats/dogs shots every 3 years, to reduce negative effects, yet it is still common to have them done every year. You have to weigh risks v. consequences. My cats are strictly indoor, and never come in contact with strays, and are only exposed to the occasional mosquito that comes inside. I do not give them shots every year (and when I do, only the more necessary ones) because their risks are very low. It would just be pointless to load them up with 10+ vaccines every year, or even every 6 months as some doctors do, since they claim a vaccine is only effective for 6 months after it is given.

[snivelingchild]

I can see how one could argue the manufacturer would have a financial motivation to murder/harm teen-aged girls and women in order to make a profit, but explain the logic why the doctors and scientists who are employed to monitor and watch out for the possible dangers of medicines/vaccines to the general public, such as the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, would benefit?

Pharmaceutical industries spend billions of dollars researching drugs.
They need these drugs to get onto the market to make back that money, so do all they can to get FDA to pass it.
Whoever funds research GREATLY impacts the findings. If you doubt this, spend any amount of time researching, and you will find this a constant. The way you design an experiment has a lot to do with the outcome, sometimes moreso that what you are studying.
Doctors and medical institutions are taught about a drug by the manufacturer, not any 3rd party. This means a great deal of spin can be brought to the benefits/risks of their product.

There is no conspiracy/want to harm. There is simply a way of doing things that does not effectively/efficiently do what it is setup to do. There is money to prove a medicine effective, but not so much money to evaluate its risks.

[Mahk]

I consider part of safe sex to be not having sex with someone until you have both been screened for STDs, unless neither of you had any previous partners. Putting on a rubber DOESN'T mean you're having safe sex in the least.

The 3,800,000 teens who contract STDs every year (http://www.womenwhocare.com/STD_Statistics/std_statistics.html) (that's over 10,000 cases per day) in the US would seem to not use your definition of safe sex, or not care, unfortunately. Either that or they foolishly trusted their incompetent doctors who had cleared them and their partners during the STD screening process they undertook prior to engaging in sex with any of them. ;)

Perhaps prior to vaccinations with Gardasil we could ask girls/women "is there any chance you will ever have sex with a partner who you don't first have screened for STDs by a medical professional, prior to engaging in sex, during your entire life?" For the women/girls who indicate that would be "impossible", short of rape, we could safely not give them the shots. Think of all the countless cases of next-day injection site soreness we could prevent (the most commonly reported adverse reaction to Gardasil shots) as well as all the savings in time and money. Of course we have to assume they all will be both completly honest and be able to see the future.

Also think of all the women who live a life of complete sexual abstinence or in total isolation form other people their entire lives. Gardasil shots would be pointless for them as well.

[Mahk]

Pharmaceutical industries spend billions of dollars researching drugs.
They need these drugs to get onto the market to make back that money, so do all they can to get FDA to pass it.

So in their interest to make money, true of any business, they spend billions of dollars on sham testing procedures (concocted just for show) guaranteed to clear their drugs as being safe, even though they know they are quite possibly dangerous and will kill/harm the women and children of their own country/family once released (or they simply don't know/care). That makes sense.


Doctors and medical institutions are taught about a drug by the manufacturer, not any 3rd party. This means a great deal of spin can be brought to the benefits/risks of their product

That's great news! Since the doctors and scientists of the CDC, FDA, FSA, and other regulatory agencies entrusted to protect our society gain their "knowledge" as to the safety of a drug/food/medicine simply by taking the manufacturer's word for it (based on these sham tests they do), I guess there's no longer any need to kill animals anymore doing safety testing. They can just make up the data instead. Hurray!

[Mahk]

It's not like the scientists at the CDC huddle together and say "Hmm...how can we poison women and children for big bucks this year - any ideas Bob?"

I hear Bob was fired and then murdered. See he had threatened to go public with the truth that their organization's entire existence was based solely to lull the general public into a false sense of security so that the drug industry can peddle their poisons and mind control drugs on all of us.:rolleyes: