Fasting: what are your thoughts?

[Risker]

I won't go into the gory details but you can see the cleansing benefits of a fast while in the little white room with the echo.


Is that the one with the bouncy walls? :p

Please go into details, I can't imagine for a second what you mean to be honest. Be as graphic as you need to be.

[Vegan_Steven]

Is that the one with the bouncy walls? :p

Please go into details, I can't imagine for a second what you mean to be honest. Be as graphic as you need to be.
I know, I should have kept that one to myself :o I guess it's gory how ever it's presented. Sorry.

[snivelingchild]

I kind of want to stab my eyes out, because 5 of the people I work with are doing the master cleanse (lemonade diet) for the full 14 days and CONSTANTLY bitching about how much it hurts. I'm like, if it hurts, maybe, just MAYBE, you shouldn't be doing it?!?! It's disgusting to watch, especially as the girl leading it is practically anorexic.

[Risker]

I know, I should kept that one to myself :o I guess it's gory how ever it's presented. Sorry.

No really, I want to know what you mean.

[Mahk]

I read some new theory on the interweb recently. Something about how all the human bodily functions rely on a steady stream of nutrients in order to function properly, if I understood it correctly....Interesting stuff.:rolleyes:

[Quantum Mechanic]

I kind of want to stab my eyes out, because 5 of the people I work with are doing the master cleanse (lemonade diet) for the full 14 days and CONSTANTLY bitching about how much it hurts. I'm like, if it hurts, maybe, just MAYBE, you shouldn't be doing it?!?! It's disgusting to watch, especially as the girl leading it is practically anorexic.

Erg, I know...especially at my first month or two at college, I kept hearing about so many people doing juice fasts and tea fasts for really long times, like almost a week or something. No wonder I hear so many people making bitchy comments about my weight; they all want to be very underweight, and while I do want to lose some weight, the body should have regular food intake, and I believe I've read that people who go without food for awhile have slower metabolism or something afterwards, because their body is in a mode of wanting to store the energy. And that this can make it harder to lose weight in the long run.

My way of cleansing: try to think more positively, eat less junk, eat more good stuff (like fresh fruit and veg), and otherwise maintain my usual diet (though some days I eat a bit much considering my activity level has dropped off a bit of late - but no reason to stop eating completely, or swear off large categories of food for no good reason, unless that category happens to be the store aisle of soy ice cream!).

[Vegan_Steven]

Done properly fasting is one of the healthiest things you can do for yourself mentally and physically. There are ways of re energizing the metabolism so storage will not be a problem. My body throws off more calories after eating following a fast than any other time.

Your correct in one respect, tea and juice fasts are fad fasts that don't work. There are fasts that include adding substances but sugar, caffeine or specific herbs shouldn't be added to a fast. Purified water should be the only thing consumed and in limited quantities.

The father of macrobiotics George Ohsawa, recomends rice and altered forms of rice while fasting calling the method rice fasting or rice fast. The benefits are enormous and known to cure debilitating diseases. George Ohsawa claims to have cured himself of tuberculoses by rice fasting.

[Mahk]

Purified water should be the only thing consumed and in limited quantities.
:(

[cobweb]

nuts!

[cobweb]

I kind of want to stab my eyes out, because 5 of the people I work with are doing the master cleanse (lemonade diet) for the full 14 days and CONSTANTLY bitching about how much it hurts. I'm like, if it hurts, maybe, just MAYBE, you shouldn't be doing it?!?! It's disgusting to watch, especially as the girl leading it is practically anorexic.

yep, curious, that, isn't it? ;)
so many people who 'go raw' and/or fast are either super skinny or have a fairly serious eating disorder :(.

[Vegan_Steven]

yep, curious, that, isn't it? ;)
so many people who 'go raw' and/or fast are either super skinny or have a fairly serious eating disorder :(.


Really? I'm 6'2" and weigh 230lbs and fast regularly and have for years.


Your assumption that fasting is " nuts " is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest cultures in the world fast regularly.

[cobweb]

Really? I'm 6'2" and weigh 230lbs and fast regularly and have for years.


Your assumption that fasting is " nuts " is ridiculous. Some of the healthiest cultures in the world fast regularly.


i said that *most*, - meaning *most* people that i ever come across - who fast and/or go raw are either thin or have an e.d.

and, no, that is my opinion of people who think it's 'healthy' to dent their body even ample fresh water (e.g your quote about 'limited quantities' of water). To me, witholding food, and especially limiting water is 'nuts' :amazed_ani:.

*edit* i know there are yogis and other similar individuals who have trained, mentally and physically, to be able to survive on little food, but to my mind this does not make it desirable for the average westerner.

[ellaminnowpea]

:o...I suppose some of you are posting in response to my post...?
I understand there are risks involved... and fundamentally, I don't think fasting is necessary. I know it can cause damage. But I still find something about fasting so alluring. I have gone 10 days without anything... so I'm thinking three-five days won't be too bad.

I would really like to do it; but it'd be a modified fast. I am NOT fasting on water. I'm doing a juice fast -- green juices and fruit juices. And brewed plain tea for some warmth. The tough part will be transitioning back to solid, higher calorie foods.

[cobweb]

ella it wasn't a personal thing with me, just an observation, but as you've mentioned it i do happen to think you are making a bad decision, yes :o

[Mahk]

I can successfully hold my breath now (a "breathing" fast if you will) for almost a full minute before I pass out or just have to quit. I am working on building that up to a full two minutes, if I can, but others in the world have achieved much longer. My doctor thinks I'm nuts but I'm convinced he's afraid that my breath holding regimen will cure my ailments so I wont have to see him anymore and he will lose my business. His interests are purely financial, you see; he has no actual interest in curing me, he just wants to keep me as a repeat customer and my breath holding regimen will put an end to that!

Many mammals, including our spiritual cousins the dolphin, successfully hold their breath for even much longer periods of time as an ongoing way of life with great success. You don't hear about dolphins getting cancer or heart disease now do you? Since we are evolved from the sea (http://www.elainemorgan.me.uk/) our selves, this is a perfectly natural trait we instinctively posses and is practiced by numerous wise yogis and their disciples world wide.

My belief is my breath holding regimen will ultimately purify my body of all the toxins and ideally I will be the first step in humans' evolutionary change to return to the sea from where we came.

;) [this post was a joke, just to be sure everyone understands. Withholding food, water, or oxygen are all dumb ideas if you ask me.]

[cobweb]

i kind of agree, Mahk.

i enjoy Yoga but i accept i have limitations, i'm a westerner with a less than perfect diet and lifestyle. If i tried to emulate some lifelong yogis i would end up seriously harming myself.

also, IF i wanted to 'cleanse' my body i would want to drink gallons of pure water, i certainly wouldn't limit my water intake :amazed_ani:

[cvC]

i said that *most*, - meaning *most* people that i ever come across - who fast and/or go raw are either thin or have an e.d.

Hi cobweb, and yes, I think it can be fairly claimed that most who go raw and/or fast become thinner. There are photo's of one such person at the link below - I'd be interested to know what your thought are about them - and I don't know about you, but I'd like to slim down a bit too:

http://store.rawreform.com/rawreform2.php


To me, witholding food, and especially limiting water is 'nuts'

Are you aware of the many stories of people finding enormous benefit in fasting and do you consider this person to have been nuts:


In 1877, Dr. Tanner was a respected, middle-aged physician living in Duluth, Minnesota. He had suffered for years with rheumatism and had consulted with seven fellow physicians, all of whom considered his case to be “hopeless.” He also suffered from asthma, which chronically disrupted his sleep. He spent his waking hours in constant pain.

Tanner had been taught in medical school that humans could live only ten days without food and in this knowledge he found solace. Not believing in suicide, he determined that he would simply starve himself to death. As he stated later, “Life to me under the circumstances was not worth living... and [I] had made up my mind to rest from physical suffering in the arms of death.” But fate had an agreeable surprise for Dr. Tanner. By unwittingly invoking a constellation of health-promoting responses associated with water-only fasting, he rapidly recovered.

By the fifth day of his fast, he was able to begin to sleep more peacefully. By the eleventh day, he reported feeling “as well as in my youthful days.” Fully expecting that by this point he should be near death, he asked a fellow physician, Dr. Moyer, to examine him. Not surprisingly, Dr. Moyer was amazed.

According to Tanner’s recollection, Moyer told him, “You ought to be at death's door, but you certainly look better than I ever saw you before.” Henry Tanner continued to fast, under Dr. Moyer’s supervision, for an additional 31 days, a total of 42 days in all.

When fellow physicians heard his story, which was sensationalized in the press, they responded with disbelief and intense criticism. Though widely rebuked as a fraud, Tanner at least had the last laugh. After his fast, Tanner had no symptoms of asthma, rheumatism, or chronic pain and lived a full life until he died at the age of ninety.

http://www.healthscience.org/Articles/fasting_article.htm

It's a long time ago now but I did once manage to go on a 5-day water fast and, while I don't now have much of a recollection of it, I do remember that I felt better for it, was clearer in mind and was still able to function - I attended an interview at the end of it and got the job. I also had once got to a size where I needed trousers with a 40 inch waist and, without knowing or thinking much about fasting, went for two weeks just consuming supermarket freshly squeezed orange juice and water, which, with lots of long walks, got me down to 34 inches - with some fluctuations, I've stayed much the same since. I note that members who, in my opinion, want to poison people and cloud their minds with things like fluoride and injurious vaccinations are also here seeking to dissuade them from what has been known for millennia and among all major religions as beneficial and a help in clearing the mind for most people. In the following quotation from the Gospel of Mathew, it is "when ye fast", not if:


16Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=6&version=9


I think I'm starting a fast... or modified fast tomorrow. But haven't formulated the exact plan yet.

Hi. I recall that you've been suffering from chronic fatigue and, if I remember correctly, arthritis, and one thing you might want to experiment with going without for a while is food from the deadly nightshade family - tomatoes, peppers, potatoes (although not sweet potatoes), eggplants (or aubergines as we call them over here) and also, as I've discovered fairly recently, goji berries. There's some information about the nightshades at the page linked below and from which this is an extract:


Dr. Childers knew first hand the agony of severe joint pain and stiffness. He discovered that after consuming a meal containing any tomatoes, he experienced severe pain. As his interest in the inflammatory responses to nightshades grew, he observed livestock kneeling in pain from inflamed joints—the livestock had consumed weeds containing a substance called solanine—a chemical known as an alkaloid, which can be highly toxic.

http://www.gloriagilbere.com/?show=AboutNightshades

Blueberries also apparently contain solanine and I've recently seen a post in another forum in which someone wrote of bears being constipated and in a bad mood after eating them. Huckleberries (whatever they are), okra and artichokes also contain solanine.

Getting back to fasting and here's a (Christian-oriented) fasting forum that you might like to consult - it's also a topic that regularly comes up at raw food boards:

http://freedomyou.com/phpBB2/index.php

[ellaminnowpea]

Hi. I recall that you've been suffering from chronic fatigue and, if I remember correctly, arthritis, and one thing you might want to experiment with going without for a while is food from the deadly nightshade family - tomatoes, peppers, potatoes (although not sweet potatoes), eggplants (or aubergines as we call them over here) and also, as I've discovered fairly recently, goji berries. There's some information about the nightshades at the page linked below and from which this is an extract

Thanks! You remember almost correctly. :) I have tried an anti-inflammatory diet, which is avoiding foods from the nightshade family (amongst other htings). It hasn't helped. I don't have arthritis... just painful joints. They assume the joint issue is related to the *possible* CFS... though, I am weary of doctors and have not pursued testing in the new year. I also try to avoid wheat for the IBS-like symptoms...


About the fasting, I'd also like to add that I've been really sick this weekend w/ sinus problems and digestive issues added on top of that: nausea all day, then IBS type issues. I tend to get bad digestive issues after eating protein-rich foods, and have to take a prescription enzyme solution with meals (from my osteopath, for the past 7 years). This modified fast will be a way for me to determine if the 'symptoms' go away when I stick to juices. Hopefully, my digestion will be settled a little more and be less reactive.

[cvC]

I have tried an anti-inflammatory diet, which is avoiding foods from the nightshade family (amongst other htings). It hasn't helped.

Am I also right in thinking that you might have gone gluten-free for a week in an attempt to deal with your condition? If it was you, then I remember thinking that this simply wasn't long enough for you to feel much of a change. If you do decide to go on such a diet again, then, as you probably know, you should be really strict about it as even a very small amount of gluten can provoke a reaction in someone sensitive to it. I don't know how long you went on the anti-inflammatory diet for, but here's something from a naturopath called Gloria Gilbere which suggests that three months without nightshades might be a time to aim for:


I have many clients with gastrointestinal and inflammatory disorders who resist eliminating nightshades, even for an initial trial period of twelve weeks. Those who do, however, return to report the amazing improvement in symptoms of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, headaches, arthritis, gout, carpal tunnel, irritable bowel and scleroderma, to name a few—after all, the only thing you have to lose is your discomfort!

http://www.gloriagilbere.com/?show=AboutNightshades
(I linked the above page incorrectly in my previous post in this thread and which I've now amended)

You have written of taking medications and might want to check if any of them are bound with potato starch.

[Vegan_Steven]

:o...I suppose some of you are posting in response to my post...?
I understand there are risks involved... and fundamentally, I don't think fasting is necessary. I know it can cause damage. But I still find something about fasting so alluring. I have gone 10 days without anything... so I'm thinking three-five days won't be too bad.

I would really like to do it; but it'd be a modified fast. I am NOT fasting on water. I'm doing a juice fast -- green juices and fruit juices. And brewed plain tea for some warmth. The tough part will be transitioning back to solid, higher calorie foods.
That's great news! But you should avoid sugar at all costs, sugar is the enemy, even in the form of fruit juice.

I've found that three day fasts are the most beneficial especially to westerners with western eating habits, three days is how long it takes the body to start digesting it's self . The body digesting it's self though is the heart of fasting and cleansing, this is when major cleansing takes place but after three days is when one should have extensive knowledge and experience. Good Luck ! Ten days is tough, you should have no problem with mini fasts.

[cobweb]

:) cvC - you are either accidentally or deliberately misunderstanding my words as i said that most people i know who go raw and/or fast are thin or have an eating disorder -
i meant that they are thin or have an E.D when they *start* fasting or going raw, not as a result of it! :rolleyes:.

I can definitely see the benefits of a a high raw diet, and, as i have stated, if i feel i need to have a bit of a cleanse myself i eat just fruit and veg for a few days and up my water intake.

It's *my opinion* that witholding food and water can be harmful, and that people go 'beyond' hunger eventually which might make them feel strangely satisfied.

No one will ever convince ME otherwise. That is my personal opinion. Yes, i could do with losing weight, i have also had an E.D myself, and done the raw thing :umm:.

[cvC]

i meant that they are thin or have an E.D when they *start* fasting or going raw, not as a result of it!

Okay, acknowledged and understood.

[Vegan_Steven]

i kind of agree, Mahk.

i enjoy Yoga but i accept i have limitations, i'm a westerner with a less than perfect diet and lifestyle. If i tried to emulate some lifelong yogis i would end up seriously harming myself.

also, IF i wanted to 'cleanse' my body i would want to drink gallons of pure water, i certainly wouldn't limit my water intake :amazed_ani:


Personally I'm setting the bar higher than westerner with a less than perfect diet.

The west, home of diabetes and heart disease.

Additionally macrobiotics suggests that humans should get all of their water from food intake unless under high workload conditions. They further suggest that anything other than that is bad for the heart.

Although I'm really not trying to argue the point with you ( I respect all vegans, you included) I suggest to you that some people are not content with living the life of an over consuming westerner, me included. So to blanketly dismiss other forms of life and health, with what appears to be zero facts is offensive at best but a great western attribute.

Again not trying to flame the fire, your free to live your life as you see fit.

[hgpns]

Most mammals lose their appetite and seek a fresh water source to rest near when they are sick (from toxins or otherwise). I don't have a doubt in my mind about the great benefits of fasting during illnesses.

Despite most modernly civilized people being disconnected from such instincts, there must a be a reason all those much less fed animals undergo this instinct. I theorize that our stomachs are partially numb from lifelong abuse, but I'm not completely sure. Perhaps this is a situation when taking a cue from nature would advance our health.

As for other fasting reasons, I think it's too largely contextual or individualized to really say. Some people might have the nutrient reserves necessary to fast healthily. Others might not. It's difficult to say as we are the only species that has no clue what it ought to be eating.

[snivelingchild]

For the most part, I think fasting is unnecessary, and anything long-term can be dangerous. Of course it can be done, and people can function on it, but that does not the sign of a healthy lifestyle it make.

I think that going without food for most of a day (like up to 16 hours) is perfectly natural, especially when you have the flu or something, because I've had plenty of times when my body just doesn't get hungry or crave anything (aside from water, which should always be plentiful) for periods of time, most often when I have an infection. When I do eat during these times when I'm not hungry, I notice my digestions is usually slowed and my meal seems "heavy." This seems like a very natural thing that might happen to food gathering societies.

Fruit juice is never a healthy thing to base a diet on. I always say that if you want to do a fruit/vegetable cleanse, you should just eat the whole food. Juicing gets rid of important juices and fiber, leaving you with the oxidized sugar. Not a good thing.

I definitely believe there is a place for fasting. I've read accounts of naturopathic doctors (yes doctors, not the people that claim to be) healing many conditions that were caused by some toxin being overloaded in the bodies tissues. (I know some people hate that term, but this can be an actual harmful substance from accidental exposure, or even wheat to someone who is very allergic. I know someone whose brother was diagnosed with Tourette's, which went away after a cleanse and cutting out wheat. Occasionally, when he is given small amounts of wheat as a treat, his tics come back)

I think a complete fasting from food should be done under advise of a doctor, for a specific condition. I also think a healthy person should not cleanse. There is no need for it, so it is unnecessary risk, even if the rick is slight. Unnecessary risk is never wanted.

I get really annoyed at work when people want a "complete" cleanse, and when I ask them what for, they say to be cleansed. I always ask if they have any symptoms, and they say no. If you are 100% happy with your health, then why are you doing a cleanse?

I won't blame people who cleanse for that euphoric feeling that they feel during. They call it a spiritual experience. I wouldn't say that, but it certainly (like every experience) can have potential for personal growth. I'm sure a cleanse, for a perfectly healthy person, won't hurt their body any more than a night of heavy drinking, which most people do a few times in their life, so I can't get too outraged over that. It's their body and their lives.