Mad Cow, Bird/Swine Flu, Foot and Mouth, E.coli, Salmonella, Ebola, Marburg...

[Holly78]

They interviewed a guy from the National Farmers Union on GMTV this morning that I saw some of before leaving for work. He was saying how awful it all is but that it won't be as bad as last time because they have 'learned the lessons' from then.

Ermm..you are still farming animals so I don't think you have actually!!! :mad:

I for one am sick and tired of my taxpayer's money going to compensate farmers for their stupid farming practices!!!!

[absentmindedfan]

Last time I checked carrots can't get foot and mouth, as they possess neither feet nor mouths. If we farmed for food not death we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Frosty]

Yeah, exactly. It does grate on me a bit when I hear the farmers tales of woe, and how their livelihood is being ruined by F&M. Use your land to grow more veg, and the problem goes away.

Carrots may not have hands or mouths, AMF, but I did have some broccoli that looked like my friend Bonz. I'll try and find the picture for you :)

[Risker]

Second outbreak now, here we go...

[Melanie]

Ughh, can't people just realise? Stupid fecking morons =/

Makes me so mad, the poor animals :(

[The_Lincoln_Imp]

The story is being presented as a purely economic item. One report spelled it out blatantly that animal welfare is not a concern, only farmer's incomes and the summer tourism trade being affected.

As a few of you above point out any sadness attached to the actual coverage of slaughter/culling/destroying simply reflects human unease with what goes on in their name every minute of every day.

Brings it all home when a big deal is made regarding a temporary ban on transporting/exporting animals en masse, such cruelty is standard 24/7 the rest of the year...

[Frosty]

I couldn't help but notice that news crews were flying over the infected area, aren't these airborn particles? Could this cause problems with spreading? :confused: Also, I heard this morning that cattle are going to be transported eighty miles for incineration, how safe can this be with regards to not spreading the disease?
I may be way off the mark here with my thoughts, anyone know? :confused:

[Cumin]

Frosty. They say that the carcass transport is specially designed and sealed. I hope they are right.

[The_Lincoln_Imp]

Why are you two concerned that the disease is well contained?

[Cumin]

Because if it spreads, they will kill thousands (or millions) of poor innocent animals. Why else?

[The_Lincoln_Imp]

Animals who are born to die for human profit anyway. That argument makes no sense.

[Cumin]

I agree that it may be their destiny, but it doesn't mean they all might as well die right now. I'm destined to die at some point, but I'm not going kill myself early just to get it over with.
Also, some of them are from breed herds and would otherwise be allowed long(ish) and normal(ish) lives.

[Gorilla]

also, the more animals are killed because of foot and mouth, the more animals will be bred to take their place. these animals would've been killed for food anyway, but if they're not eaten, the demand will still continue and more will have to die.

[Maisiepaisie]

I've been physically attacked by a female farmer, I've witnessed grown men break down, I've broken down myself.

On one occasion, I had just finished a cull. I went into the barn and then I heard something rustling. I looked up and saw a terrified calf in front of me.

The farmer begged me not to kill him, but I had to. I reported it to the vet and then I had to shoot him.

That calf haunts me every night.

Another time, I could tell a farmer was about to lose control, he was standing in front of me actually stroking a bumblebee.

I went over to him and suggested he go and get a cup of tea.

"Cup of tea?", he said to me. "I haven't eaten for three days".

Later that day, he put a shotgun to his head. I had to call the police to have him restrained.

'Not just tough guys'

Seeing the pictures on television has brought it all flooding back. I haven't been able to watch today. I can't even try to explain the suffering this is going to cause.

There would be eight or nine trailors piled high with sheep and cattle. It was my job to physically check them for signs of life.

Once I found a sheep that I knew was part of my cull from the night before. He had come back to life and been at the bottom of a pile of 300 carcasses.

People who say foot-and-mouth disease doesn't affect humans have no idea

People think slaughtermen are big tough guys, we're not. I'm 6ft 2in and 17 stone but I'm still human and I care.

The thing that hurts me most is that farmers were just begining to rebuild their lives.

The people who say foot-and-mouth disease doesn't affect humans have no idea what they are talking about.

It's ruined my life. I don't live anymore, I exist.'
Oh my heart bleeds. Those poor farmers, having to go through all this. Not to mention the poor slaughtermen who have the worse job of all :rolleyes: :mad:

[The_Lincoln_Imp]

also, the more animals are killed because of foot and mouth, the more animals will be bred to take their place. these animals would've been killed for food anyway, but if they're not eaten, the demand will still continue and more will have to die.

They will only breed up to replace the levels of the animals that would have died anyway. When you hope for speedy containment of any issue that affects the livestock industry you're essentially hoping for live export and farmer's profits to be restored as normal rather than the current pause in activity and downturn in animal exploiting fortunes.

[Cumin]

Imp,
I agree that a pause in the business and a possible downturn are a good thing, but I still don't think we should ignore the early deaths of the cattle, and the extra that will live & die (as Gorilla said) to fill their place.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that the extra ( & early) killing doesn't matter.

[The_Lincoln_Imp]

As I said before the demand for animal products will stay the same and every single animal would have died to be replaced by one in their place anyway. Essentially for this brief moment that perpetual cycle is on pause, industry slightly dented. That equals less animal exploitation.

It doesn't seem very in keeping with veganism IMO to glory in the length of time the animals are allowed to live for pre-slaughter. Often in terrible, unnatural conditions, existing only to serve human means.

That argument would basically become as ridiculous as "Farmer A is better than Farmer B because he prefers to fatten up his pigs for six months and Farmer B only four and a half months". Could easily go in the other direction and say the less time they have to live as "livestock" the better...

[Gorilla]

the demand for animal products will stay the same (unless, hopefully, this outbreak will influence more people to go veg*n), but because the demand is not being met by those that are being killed due to foot and mouth, they will be replaced by more animals who would not otherwise have been bred. more animals overall will be bred, farmed and slaughtered, and that can only be a bad thing.

[Cumin]

Thanks Gorilla, that's exactly what I was about to say.
Imp, we should just agree to disagree, I don't have any more to say on the matter.

[Hemlock]

What made me furious was a beef farmer - i.e his herd are going to be slaughtered anyway - crying because all his bulls had to be killed. He had raised them from calves and so was rather emotional.
HELLO! What does he think is going to happen to them in the end:confused:
Bit like an executioner crying his eyes out because his favourite prisoner, due to be executed next week, has died in his sleep.
What complete oafs and morons.

[The_Lincoln_Imp]

Its a confusing conundrum to work out the specifics of how many animals would benefit/die under the status quo. The fact is these animals were all in existence and their cause surely doesn't suffer for virulent strains affecting the industry that enslaves them.

If animal products are delivered in from other countries to meet the demand then that will be at a cost. Insurance for farming will rise, farming becomes a less attractive livelihood globally, the industry's PR suffers, people don't like seeing the hidden world of animal slaughter on their TV sets etc etc.

Anyway you'll be pleased to know the transport and export of animals relaxes from midnight and everything can return to normal for now...

[Cumin]

Imp. Actually I'm not pleased. I'd rather the livestock industry remained in hiatus for exactly the reasons you gave.

[cobweb]

:mad: it just makes me spit with rage

[cobweb]

BTW just had an e-mail from 'Hillside' asking for anyone who lives within a 100 mile radius of the outbreak to stay away from the sanctuary, and if you are planning to visit RING FIRST to check if they can still receive visitors :(.

[bugaboo]

Gosh, sad to say but I think if the disease spread to a couple humans and killed them, there would be a great outcry among the average meat consumers, hopefully, resulting in more people becoming aware of the animals they eat.

Do you think that this infection has caused people to curb or reduce their meat-eating?

IMO it hasn't which is very sad.

On the same topic, do you think the avian flu would be so prominent now if we didn't have the poultry factory farms? I think "bird flu" is most-likely a direct result of close-quarter bird farms. no?