Mad Cow, Bird/Swine Flu, Foot and Mouth, E.coli, Salmonella, Ebola, Marburg...

[kriz]

But what is this problem? Sorry, but there isn't a problem (except a fucking irritating media and millions of gullible morons).

I agree, Stu, it's a POTENTIAL problem. Sure, it can mutate and come back in a nasty form, but why panic about something that may or may not happen tomorrow. I should stop driving a car, and participate in all other ''risky'' activities because they are potentially dangerous. Thinking about it, I may even quit my job, so I can be home in safety...:umm_ani:

Caution and common sense prevention is very different from irrational fear and paranoia, which can have a terrible effects in a society.

[CrunchyMomma]

I know the concern here in the States is that they're now discovering it is popping up in patients previously considered outside of the "at risk" cetegory. For example, there is a pregnant woman in my state whose sample is being tested for H1N1 and the Georgia Dept. of Health is saying because it did not match any other strain samples, it is most likely the "swine flu"; however, they have no clue how she would have contracted it.

So far in most countries where this flu has popped up it's been a few isolated cases among people who have traveled to Mexico, but here in the States people are getting it and haven't even been around people who have recently traveled to Mexico. They're getting it and haven't even been around someone who is sick, that they know of. That means there are people here in the States who have it, aren't going to the doctor and are passing it around. This woman could have touched something at the store and then rubbed her eye. Basically Mexico and the United States are the only countries where there has been sustained transmission from person to person which means we'll end up having a full-blown flu season all through summer and that's the largest potential for problems here in the States, especially since unlike normal flu season no one has been vaccinated against this.

[cobweb]

But what is this problem? Sorry, but there isn't a problem (except a fucking irritating media and millions of gullible morons).


so you would rather we weren't told about new strains of flu or other viruses? :confused:
if there's no problem why are now seeing schools and nurseries closing in Britain?
if you think this thread is only for the gullible morons why do you feel the need to keep commenting on it, haven't you got better things to do with your time, being one of the superior intelligensia and all :question:

[harpy]

I think that the media do have a responsibility to report new flu strains so that people can take appropriate action, but at the same time they shouldn't frighten the public unnecessarily which I'd say some papers etc have been doing, given that there doesn't seem to be much evidence so far that this strain is particularly harmful.

It's possible the school closures etc are over-reactions but I can see why people would be careful at this stage, especially as younger people seem more vulnerable to this particular flu strain than older ones so it could spread more that way.

[BlackCats]

a colleague at work said "at least we can still eat pork!" *sigh**

:rolleyes: That's a relief.

[RebeccaDye]

The media really have made a pig's ear of this 'pandemic'. Bloody scaremongers.

[Stu]

so you would rather we weren't told about new strains of flu or other viruses? :confused:

So are you suggesting that the public are 'told' about every new strain of virus? Regardless of whether or not I think we should be, there is no valid reason why the media has picked up on this one particular thing.
And what the media are doing is nothing to do with 'telling' us. These are hardly public-service announcements, are they? It's more suggestion, scaremongering and lies.


if there's no problem why are now seeing schools and nurseries closing in Britain?

The only problem is gullible morons closing schools and nurseries unnecessarily.


if you think this thread is only for the gullible morons why do you feel the need to keep commenting on it, haven't you got better things to do with your time, being one of the superior intelligensia and all :question:

One thing that I really REALLY don't like, is people putting words in my mouth. I resent you saying that I think this thread is only for gullible morons, and I hope you'll take it back because that has really angered me.

[cobweb]

So are you suggesting that the public are 'told' about every new strain of virus? Regardless of whether or not I think we should be, there is no valid reason why the media has picked up on this one particular thing.
And what the media are doing is nothing to do with 'telling' us. These are hardly public-service announcements, are they? It's more suggestion, scaremongering and lies.



The only problem is gullible morons closing schools and nurseries unnecessarily.



One thing that I really REALLY don't like, is people putting words in my mouth. I resent you saying that I think this thread is only for gullible morons, and I hope you'll take it back because that has really angered me.


Well I won't because you really angered me actually, by coming on this thread several times and saying how 'angry' the thread made you!. If you arent interested in a thread because you think it covers a subject that's only for 'gullible morons' then why read it atall :confused:.

I'm sure that school and nurseries (especially private nurseries) don't want to close, so maybe, just maybe, they have made a decision on health grounds. Maybe not everyone who disagrees with you is a 'gullible moron'.

I think that your terminology is extremely rude and patronising and I also think that I am equally as entitled to my opinion as you are yours.

I really wouldn't know whether we are told about every new strain of flu virus, but I'd bet that people like you would accuse the government of 'covering it up' if we weren't told of possible endemics/pandemics :mad:.

[cobweb]

Gullibility can be contracted through reading newspapers and watching the news. If you avoid these two things, you are immune to swine flu.


see, i find that incredibly rude and patronising - you know, Stu, some of us are actually capable of reading a newspaper and still making our own judgments and forming our own opinions on things :umm_ani:.

If you don't watch the news or read papers then how do you know about this strain of flu anyway, and why bother discussing it if it doesn't interest you/concern you :confused:

[cobweb]

This thread is making me angry. It's like reading the Daily Mail.

THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

Now please stop allowing the media to brainwash you.


How would you know, if you don't read the 'papers?.
I personally detest the Daily Mail but Stu, are you really qualified to state 'there is nothing to worry about' :question:.
Me, i'm not particularly worried, but i defend the right of any of us to discuss it here. Maybe we are interested, that's not the same as being worried. I haven't seen anyone here state that they are in a state of high alarm over this.

Don't tell other people what to do/talk about!!! :mad:.

Do you really imagine that vegans are easily 'brainwashed' by the media (or anyone else) :confused:

You said that it makes you angry for people to put words in your mouth, and i can understand why, right enough. So please try to understand this, Stu, i don't like people making assumptions about others - such as anyone closing down their nursery is a "gullible moron" (your words) and that anyone who reads a newspaper is "gullible" and "brainwashed".

Do you work in the health ministry?. Are you able to make a public statement that there is 'nothing to worry about'?. No, funnily enough, you work in a library, i hope people are not being brainwashed by the books there every day!.

[greeny]

The following is from a email I recieved, if anybody is interested to sign the petition calling on investigate and develop regulations for factory farming to uphold global public health standards, please read on. Thanks.

Hi,

Did you know that evidence is growing of the link between factory farms and swine flu? International organisations have been warning that these inhumane and filthy operations are breeding grounds of disease for years.

I just signed a petition calling on the the United Nations World Health Organisation and the Food and Agriculture Organisation to investigate and develop regulations for factory farming to uphold global public health standards. If we reach 200,000 signers, the petition will be delivered in Geneva with a herd of cardboard pigs. Sign below and tell your friends −− a pig will be added for every 1000 signers!

http://www.avaaz.org/en/swine_flu_pandemic/98.php?cl_taf_sign=743295c9ca50b3b2f01e8b099c77d5a d

Thank you so much for your help!

−−−−−

Here's the full Email from Avaaz:

Dear friends,

No−one yet knows whether swine flu will become a global pandemic, but it is becoming clear where it came from – most likely a giant pig factory farm run by an American multinational corporation in Veracruz, Mexico.)1(

These factory farms are disgusting and dangerous, and they're rapidly multiplying. Thousands of pigs are brutally crammed into dirty warehouses and sprayed with a cocktail of drugs −− posing a health risk to more than just our food −− they and their manure lagoons create the perfect conditions to breed dangerous new viruses like swine flu. The World Health Organization )WHO( and the Food and Agriculture Organisation )FAO( must investigate and develop regulations for these farms to protect global health.

Big agrobusiness will try to obstruct and scuttle any attempts at reform, so we need a massive outcry that health authorities can't ignore. Sign the petition below for investigation and regulation of factory farms and tell your friends and family and we will deliver it to the UN agencies. If we reach 200,000 signatures we will deliver it to the WHO in Geneva with a herd of cardboard pigs. For every 1000 petition signatures we will add a pig to the herd:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/swine_flu_pandemic/98.php?cl_taf_sign=743295c9ca50b3b2f01e8b099c77d5a d

Last week the flu was all that we talked about −− Mexico has been nearly paralysed and across the world leaders halted air travel, banned pork imports and initiated drastic controls to mitigate the spreading virus. As the threat shows signs of subsiding the question becomes where it came from and how we stop another outbreak.

Smithfield Corporation, the largest pig producer in the world whose farm is being fingered as the source of the H1N1 outbreak, denies any connection between their pigs and the flu and big agrobusiness worldwide pays huge sums of money for research to argue that biosafety is ensured in industrial hog production. But the WHO has been saying for years that 'a new pandemic is inevitable')2( and experts from the European Commission and the FAO have cautioned that the rapid move from small holdings to industrial pig production is in fact increasing the risk of development and transmission of disease epidemics. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warn that scientists still do not know the extent that infectious compounds produced in factory farms affect human health.)3(

Studies abound of the horrific conditions endured by pigs in concentrated large−scale operations, and the devastating economic impact on small farmer communities of bloated large−scale operations.)4( Smithfield itself has already been fined $12.6m and is currently under another federal investigation in the US for toxic environmental damage from pig excrement lakes.)5(

But even with all of this damaging evidence, a combination of increased global meat consumption and a powerful industry motivated by profit at the cost of human health, means that instead of being shut down − these sickening factory farm operations are propagating around the world and we are subsidising them )6(. In the wake of this swine flu threat, let's hold industrial pig producers to account. Sign the petition for investigation and regulation:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/swine_flu_pandemic/98.php?cl_taf_sign=743295c9ca50b3b2f01e8b099c77d5a d

If we resolve this global health crisis boldly by reassessing our food consumption and production, and urgently calling for an inquiry into the impact of factory farms on human health, we could put in place tough farm practice rules that will save the global population from future animal borne lethal pandemics.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/swine_flu_pandemic/98.php?cl_taf_sign=743295c9ca50b3b2f01e8b099c77d5a d

in hope,

Alice, Pascal, Graziela, Paul, Brett, Ben, Ricken, Iain, Paula, Luis, Raj, Margaret, Taren and the whole Avaaz team

)1( Biosurveillance report tracing the disease to the Smithfields farm: http://biosurveillance.typepad.com/biosurveillance/2009/04/swine−flu−in−mexico−timeline−of−events.html
Reports on the link between the Mexican factory farm and the flu:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life−style/health−and−wellbeing/health−news/for−la−gloria−the−stench−of−blame−is−from−pig−fact ories−1675809.html
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la−fg−mexico−flu28−2009apr28,0,1701782.story
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=can−swine−flu−be−blamed−on−industri −09−05−01
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227063.800−swine−flu−the−predictable−pandemic. html?full=true
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david−kirby/swine−flu−outbreak−−−−nat_b_191408.html

)2( WHO pandemic information
http://www.euro.who.int/influenza/20080618_19

)3( FAO, EC and CDC reports on the risks of industrial farming on public health
FAO and CIWF and http://www.cdc.gov/cafos/about.htm

)4( CIWF and PETA video reports of the disgusting conditions for animals in factory farms and the disease ridden manure swamps:
CIWF and PETA

)5( Reports on Smithfield's animal welfare and environmental damage
http://www.independent.co.uk/life−style/health−and−wellbeing/health−news/for−la−gloria−the−stench−of−blame−is−from−pig−fact ories−1675809.html

http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/press/releases/new−report−highlights−the−trouble−with−smithfield− article03132008

http://avaazimages.s3.amazonaws.com/SmithfieldJan08.pdf

)6( Reports on UK tax payers subsidising factory farms http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/farming/5225298/Taxpayers−forking−out−700−million−for−factory−farm ing−in−England.html

[Stu]

I'm not going to have an argument with you, especially since you seem to misunderstand what I say.

[CrunchyMomma]

I would have thought anyone with flu-like symptoms would have the sense not to visit a hospital anyway but maybe not


Hell, I have a friend who got a nasty, nasty stomach virus back in December on the same day her sister had a baby. What does she do? Goes to the hospital, keeps puking in the visitor restroom, but holds her newborn niece. :rolleyes:

[cobweb]

I'm not going to have an argument with you, especially since you seem to misunderstand what I say.


fine, i don't expect i'm intelligent enough to understand what you say anyway :rolleyes:
i'm just a moron, i'll get back to reading my paper and let you get back to whatever lofty things you usually do.

[1gentlemaorispirit]

I read this on Yapoo news this morning:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5548253


My OH works with a guy and his wife at the unit. The husband and wife often have some friction between them.

On Monday the husband said to his wife: "You must have swine flu!"
Wife: "Why?"
Husband:" Because you've got a face like a pig!"

The wife turned the air blue in reply!

This was said in the staff room in front of the Nurses . . . :eek:

[cobweb]

I'm really not struck on giving out medications 'just in case' but i do think that there is good reason for averyone to be aware of what is happening when this kind of pandemic is occuring.

The media just give the public what they want and shouldn't be blamed. People need to think for themselves and i would say that they mostly do. If people want to opt out of society and hide from 'media' and the news then i can fully understand that but i think it's a bit much to go round telling others not to discuss things.

As a nurse, what is your OH's opinion on this 'swine' flu, 1GMS?

[puca]

Johann Hari on Swine Flu (http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=1501)

[Poison Ivy]

If the only good thing to come out of all the 'propaganda' is that more people start coughing and sneezing into tissues instead of all over anyone who happens to be in the vicinity I for one will be quite happy.:)

Whether it is overhyped or not I really don't know, but I'd rather be aware of the possibility than living in ignorance about it.

[cobweb]

If the only good thing to come out of all the 'propaganda' is that more people start coughing and sneezing into tissues instead of all over anyone who happens to be in the vicinity I for one will be quite happy.:)

Whether it is overhyped or not I really don't know, but I'd rather be aware of the possibility than living in ignorance about it.


I agree, and i reserve judgment on whether something is pure 'hype' or not til it progresses a bit further............

[leedsveg]

I've seen mortality estimates for the '1918 Spanish flu pandemic' ranging from 20m to 100m+. Only a minor point but did any of the victims succumb to 'gullible moronism' before they died? I think we should be told......!

leedsveg :D

[greeny]

Johann Hari on Swine Flu (http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=1501)

Thanks for this. I am going to pass the article to my friends.

A video on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j10SQpCO9Wc
Swine Flu: Factory Farming at the Root of the Cause?

Jane Velez-Mitchell talks about how inhumane factory farming of pigs may have helped to cause the outbreak of the Swine Flu. She also talks with Dr. Michael Greger from the Humane Society.

[Ruby Rose]

Oh don't you start! :)

[1gentlemaorispirit]

I've seen mortality estimates for the '1918 Spanish flu pandemic' ranging from 20m to 100m+. Only a minor point but did any of the victims succumb to 'gullible moronism' before they died? I think we should be told......!

leedsveg :D

A lot of my Maori family died in the 1918 flu epidemic. Out of 9 siblings my Maori Grandmother and 4 others survived!:(


I'm really not struck on giving out medications 'just in case' but i do think that there is good reason for averyone to be aware of what is happening when this kind of pandemic is occuring.

The media just give the public what they want and shouldn't be blamed. People need to think for themselves and i would say that they mostly do. If people want to opt out of society and hide from 'media' and the news then i can fully understand that but i think it's a bit much to go round telling others not to discuss things.

As a nurse, what is your OH's opinion on this 'swine' flu, 1GMS?

His says: "Every 2 years or so, there's a 'new flu' epidemic. Whether it's swine flu, bird flu or other respiratory diseases, such as SARS. We've relied too much on Anti-biotics in the past 30 years, causing a panic at the slightest sniffle!"

[leedsveg]

Sorry if my posting was offensive to you in any way 1g. I was trying to be gently ironic. I suspect some of my grandparent's siblings/close relatives may have also died from the flu at that time.

leedsveg

[auryn23]

So can anyone explain to me the difference between a "pan"demic and an "epi"demic?