Sleep, and how do I stop doing it?

[Russ]

Okay, as I just wrote in the coffee thread, I have no problems falling asleep whatsoever. I close my eyes and I'm asleep almost immediately, for the whole night pretty much.

It's the waking up that's the hard part.

I set myself two alarms almost every day. This morning is a classic example of what happens ... I get up and turn them both off, then go back to bed and sleep in another 4 hours :D

Actuallty :mad: or at the very least :o would be more appropriate ... possibly even :confused: given how dozy and brain-dead I feel for the rest of the day. Even after drinking coffee and a ton of water I can't 'wake up' properly until sometime in the evening around 7-8pm ... and then I feel -really- awake and don't want to go to sleep until gone midnight .. AND SO THE CYCLE REPEATS ITSELF ...

Today is the first time (in a good while) that I've actually missed a lecture because I chose to sleep in instead. I was meant to get up at 8. Lecture is until 11, and then my plan was to go food shopping, bring it back here, then head to the library and work all afternoon.

It's now twenty past one and today I have:
- looked at forums

Unfortunately this is the NORM rather than an exception ...
Bad sleep patterns = demotivation = wasting time ... I have so much I need to get done as well.

Does anyone have any idea how I can force myself to get up earlier? It sounds kind of silly cause it's just something I should be able to -make- myself do ... usually I'm pretty good at just -doing things that need to be done- but sleep is like a DRUG at that time in the morning .. ALL I seem able to think about is scoring more of it ...

I guess earlier nights would be a start ... easier said than done .. :rolleyes:

[Fungus]

One thing I find helps:
Put your alarms somewhere where its hard to get to them , so you have to physically get out of bed and walk over to turn them off, stops me just reaching my arm across, turning it off and going straight back to sleep :)

[Mr Flibble]

My average getting up time at uni was about 12-1pm; I went to very few morning lectures.

I had serious issues getting up before then and always felt extremely tired if i did. I had blood tests for glandular fever and saw a nutritionist (incase my vegan diet was a bit too extreme), but the blood tests were fine and the nutritionist said my diet was one of the healthiest she'd ever encounter a student having. Here's what I've learnt from 4 years uni/4 years in work:

a) my body needs 7-8 hours sleep a night. Less than that and I will feel tired. If I get more than about 9 I'll also feel tired. I can probably do a few days on 6 hours, but it's not good.
b) caffeine doesn't always make me feel less tired - sometimes I can make me feel more tired. It's better to be a bit tired than a bit tired with a caffeine headache.
c) I need a regularish bedtime +- 1 hour (i.e. 10pm-12am). If I stay up till 3am one night it will screw around with my tiredness for days
d) university/having a social life resolving round drinking and staying up all night isn't condusive for any of the above.
e) feeling tired when you wake up is generally quite normal, what matters is if you feel the same when you've been up for 30 minutes/are driving down the motorway

I still haven't totally cracked it, but I'm getting there. Ideally I'd like to survive on 6 or less hours a night, but my body really doesn't like that idea. I've come to terms with the fact that it's not about being feeble/mind over matter - bodies just naturally need sleep and different people different amounts.

[Russ]

@ Fungus: haha yeah ... that's my second alarm ... and it used to work ... but now I've developed the habit of getting up, turning it off and heading straight back to bed ... sort of like it's a REFLEX ... :(

@ Mr Flibble: indeed, maybe it's just the fact that I'm a student. I'm usually pretty good with attending morning lectures (though I don't tend to take much in cause of tiredness) but I actually think I'm getting worse with this ... I'm with you on the 7-8 hours a night as optimal ... I used to get that regularly back when I somehow had the drive to wake up earlier and felt great for a while, before it all hit me at once and suddenly I was back to 9+ again ..
I don't really do the student lifestyle thing any more .. haha ... but the late nights part is true. 10pm-12am sounds about right and what I should be aiming for.

Thanks for the replies ... I might give me InnerTalk CD (http://www.innertalk.com/) another shot (the Sleep Reduction one) ... (the PMA one worked wonders and pretty much changed my whole perspective on LIFE ... mine, at least ... Sleep Reduction has been less successful but that could be cause I haven't given enough effort to repeating the mantras ...)

[harpy]

Taking extra exercise might be helpful unless you already get loads - it makes you ready for bed earlier and also I think may improve the quality of your sleep.

Must say I was just the same in my final year at university, and I'm not sure why - don't think I was drinking a lot of booze, but I did use to like late nights (and still do :o )

[xrodolfox]

If you are sleeping 9+ regularly, you might need that much, and to sleep less you might shortchange your body.

I'd worry less about sleeping so much and enjoy it. your body clearly needs it. I'd love it if I *could* get that many uninterrupted hours a night.

[Fungus]

I usually get ~ 7 and a half hours sleep a night, but I dont really find it that hard which is odd, as has been said exercise does help hugely in being able to get to sleep ...
fyi: I get to bed at ~ 11-12 and up at 7:50 usually , but when I have holidays its more like ~12-1 and up at 11:30 and feel -much- less tired, even though I've just wasted that 4 hours :D
Just thinking of it, I know someone who uses a sleep technique and apparently successful with it, 6 hours a day, I'll ask him but he's in australia and its 1am so will be asleep :D

[Russ]

I'd worry less about sleeping so much and enjoy it.

I'd like to ... the problem is it's impinging on other aspects of my life ... the more important ones ...

Basically, I'm just an idiot for sleeping in so late most days and even more of one for not going to bed earlier.

[snivelingchild]

It sounds like you're getting to sleep at about the same time every night? That's good.

Making sure you keep the house dark after sundown will help your sleep hormones regulate, and you will be able to get a very deep sleep. You also need to make sure to open up the windows and get as much light in as you can when it's time for you to get up.

Do a small amount of slow-paced exercise before you go to bed, and when you get up, try doing a couple basic things to get your blood flowing. (Actually, I used to do a shot of apple cidar vinegar, lemon juice, and cayenne pepper to get me going in the morning, worked wonders, but I doubt most people would do that; I just do APC now.) If you can try and do some kind of action when you get up for 60 seconds, even if your still zombied, it'll help.

Experiment with your sleep times. I usually need about 6-7 hours sleep, so if I get an hour more, then it's hard for me to wake up, and I end up sleeping for 13 hours.

And, you won't like this one, but I really do think cutting out the caffeine would restore a better sleep rhythm. *runs and hides*

[aubergine]

I'd like to ... the problem is it's impinging on other aspects of my life ... the more important ones ...

I don't understand :confused:

[Russ]

Today is the first time (in a good while) that I've actually missed a lecture because I chose to sleep in instead.

[aubergine]

Can you get a copy of someone else's notes?

[auntierozzi]

Could you get hold of one of those alarms that gradually light up your room?

[Russ]

Can you get a copy of someone else's notes?

I can get everything (actually, more than is given in the lecture) online. But that's not the point. I don't want to be sleeping in until 11 then feeling demotivated all day ... I take my studies pretty seriously ...


Could you get hold of one of those alarms that gradually light up your room?

Haha ... maybe ... they sound like they'd be expensive though.

[bryzee86]

I have a good way of waking: a niursing student partner who gets up at 6am and needs breakfast and a packed lunch doing.

Works a treat.

[Hemlock]

I have a cure for that........take out a large mortgage and find a really stressful job i.e with the NHS. I can guarantee you won't sleep at all, ever :)

I think my message is - enjoy it while it lasts mate:)

Having kids is another way of never sleeping more than 3 hours in 24 also.

[veganbikerboy]

Basically, I'm just an idiot for sleeping in so late most days and even more of one for not going to bed earlier.

yep, thats me too:D

I have exactly the same problem. I take my job 100% seriously and still work lots of hours, but I really struggle to get up in the mornings. It is a running joke at my office, I have been known to arrive as late as 11am:eek:

lucky i've got a good boss:p

[Russ]

Thanks to everyone for responding ... here I've made a list of possible solutions. I've narrowed it down to five ... things. The others I've already tried and don't work, or are non-applicable.

Moving alarm across the room
Getting to sleep earlier
Exercising
Things are fine, leave them as they are
Open curtains in the morning (I don't actually do this until the afternoon usually)
Vinegar, lemon juice and pepper cocktail (it's worth a shot ..)
Stop drinking coffee
Alarm that gradually lights up the room
Partner who demands I get up early
Mortgage
Stressful job
Kids
Become the Dean of the University

Can I use any type of pepper for the shot? And does it have to be LEMON juice? Like fresh lemon juice? I think I just like the idea of taking a shot first thing in the morning.

[Russ]

lucky i've got a good boss:p

You ARE the boss!

*added to list

[veganbikerboy]

in all seriousness, the way i combat it is to make appointments that i cant break (clients etc..) first thing in the morning. That way I HAVE to get up.

Just going to the office is not motivation enough, but if it will impact on my clients or my business that is reason to force myself out of bed.

you could perhaps apply that in someway to your studies? arrange to meet someone for coffee before lectures etc..?

[Russ]

Yeah ... that should work. Whenever I manage to get into the library at 9 and work all morning, I get so much more done, and then still have the 'rest of the day' (which to me is like 'the day').

It's what I did for a lot of last semester ... and that (as well as avoiding certain time-consuming forums ;)) certainly worked ... problem with arranging to meet someone is no one else I know wants to get up early. They're students, after all.

I'm going to get an early night tonight, and set my alarm for 8. We'll see how it goes from there ...

[bryzee86]

you could have sleep apnoea - just a thought i had. You could think you're getting 14 hours sleep, but actually you're getting about half an hour.

[pavotrouge]

If you're going to bed at the same time and set your alarm at approx. the same time, it might also be that you're being waked during an REM phase (=very deep sleep), so setting the alarm an hour earlier/later might work, too.

I always thought of myself as a night person but since I've discovered this and I get up at 5.30 most days I'm happier, more awake and all than before when getting up at 7-7.30ish.

[Russ]

Isn't REM the -least- deep stage of sleep? And that's why there's more of it towards the end of the night? I assume this to be the case because it's when the brain is most active, and most people I know can remember their dreams regularly ... which only happens if you wake up during one ..

[aubergine]

... they sound like they'd be expensive though.

I have a Lumie alarm clock lamp thimajig and it was around £50 if I remember correctly. It's very good although I keep forgetting to turn it on...

I have similar problems with sleep. I haven't had a proper night's sleep in at least a year for a variety of reasons. This exacerbated a situation similar to yours. I have no idea how distinguish between when I need a lie in due to exhaustion, and a normal morning when I'm just struggling to wake up.

Years ago it was worse. I had (and still have) three alarms to wake me up and I would hear none of them. One of them is a very loud DAB Radio, although I was also the only person in my class to sleep through the hurricane of 1987.

As the years have gone on I've slept a bit lighter at the crucial time for an alarm to wake me but for the last couple of years I've felt more tired and groggy when I wake up than I did when I went to bed. In my waking stuper I equate this with needing a little more time to wake up and end up being very late for work. Thankfully I have a somewhat sympathetic employer.

I've very recently come to the conclusion that the groggy feeling in the morning is perhaps extreme but unavoidable. By dragging myself out of bed earlier (6.20am in order to leave the house by 8.45am) I can afford the sit on the end of my bed feeling nauseaus for half an hour before getting ready. I'm not sleeping better but I'm at least getting to work on time.

So basically what I'm saying is that what has worked for now is trying to ignore what my body seems to be telling me. If I don't do this I'll happily stay in bed 24/7. Really. I've no idea if this will be helpful but I thought I may as well share my experiences as they are not dissimilar to your own. It can feel pretty isolating as most people just think you're being lazy when actually you never feel like you have the energy to do anything.

Incidentally although I give in to the urges more now because I'm not very happy, I actually felt physically much worse before going Vegan.