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veganmary
Feb 15th, 2008, 04:58 PM
I'm just starting out and wondering teh best way to get my protein in my diet.

Is it with nuts, beans?

Any advice? :)

absentmindedfan
Feb 15th, 2008, 05:15 PM
The idea that the vegan diet is deficient in protein is a myth. Eat a variety of fruits, vegetable, legumes, wholegrains, pulses and natural (ie nuts, avocado, coconut) fats and you will get all the nutrients you need.

You might wish to get a vegan multivitamin if you are overly worried about B12, but eating tempeh, fortified cereals/milks and things like seaweed should be fine :)

xrodolfox
Feb 15th, 2008, 05:16 PM
I'm just starting out and wondering teh best way to get my protein in my diet.

Is it with nuts, beans?

Any advice? :)

I just get enough calories.

As a percentage of calories (not mass), veggies have lots of protein, especially things like brocoli.

So I never worry about protein. Even as an athlete. I just make sure to get enough calories.

belleadonna
Feb 17th, 2008, 10:09 PM
Fruits and plants. :D

bryzee86
Feb 17th, 2008, 10:17 PM
yeah we're not protein deficient. In fact your body can only assimilate 6g of protein/hr, so any more has to be excreted. So have plenty of fruit, veg, wholegrains, nuts and pulses, but carbs should make up a hell of alot of your diet - don't overdo the proteins.

steven1222
Feb 17th, 2008, 11:50 PM
Is it with nuts, beans?
Do not bother with the nuts unless you really like them. They are difficult to digest, and, contrary to popular belief, nuts are not a particularly good source of protein. On a per-Calorie basis, nuts have about the same amount of protein as grains. As with grains, most nuts are low in lysine. I am not saying that is a problem; my point is that everyone seems to say nuts have more protein than grains, because they are thinking in terms of "grams protein per 100g" instead of "g protein per 100 Calories." For comparing foods like nuts and grains, the latter is more useful.


As a percentage of calories (not mass), veggies have lots of protein, especially things like brocoli.
It is impractical to compare vegetables to other foods on a per-Calorie basis, because it is impossible to get large amounts of Calories from them.

harpy
Feb 18th, 2008, 02:41 AM
Hello veganmary - have you seen this information sheet?:

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/protein.php

As others have said, it's really not a problem if you eat a good range of foods.

xrodolfox
Feb 18th, 2008, 03:04 AM
It is impractical to compare vegetables to other foods on a per-Calorie basis, because it is impossible to get large amounts of Calories from them.

You haven't you seen me eat. :)

I think worrying about protein is kinda ridiculous, since if you eat enough calories, you'll get all the protein you need (unless you are growing at the rate of an infant, in which case there's breast milk from mom, or unless you are a body building building mass at the same rate as an infant).

There's no case I've heard of, of a vegan who was protein deficient who had enough calories in their diet. I've heard of quite a lot of omnivores who have protein deficiency... when they have anorexia nervosa or other eating disorders.

So yes, you can compare veggies based on calorie intake if you eat enough veggies... like me. You can certainly get enough proteins from grains, nuts, and you don't even need soy or legumes... even if they are tasty and convenient. Proteins are just everywhere, and quite abundant, and easy to get enough of.

I actually am building some muscle mass these days. Not at the rate of my infant children, but still regular progress. It's mostly weight lifting, and eat more tofu. Nothing dramatic. But certainly enough protein in my diet since building muscle is the last priority to a body that's low in protein.

So, again, you've yet to see me eat. ;)

steven1222
Feb 21st, 2008, 12:38 PM
So yes, you can compare veggies based on calorie intake if you eat enough veggies... like me.
Try to eat 2,000 Calories worth of vegetables in one day, and enjoy the digestive blockage. :rolleyes:


You can certainly get enough proteins from grains, nuts, and you don't even need soy or legumes... even if they are tasty and convenient.
I disagree with that. If grains and nuts are the only sources of protein, there might be a problem. I usually get close to the RDA of protein from food each day, but I end up with rapid muscle loss and weight gain when I do not take a protein supplement.

xrodolfox
Feb 21st, 2008, 04:55 PM
Try to eat 2,000 Calories worth of vegetables in one day, and enjoy the digestive blockage. :rolleyes:


I disagree with that. If grains and nuts are the only sources of protein, there might be a problem. I usually get close to the RDA of protein from food each day, but I end up with rapid muscle loss and weight gain when I do not take a protein supplement.

I think that you are doing something wrong when I can hardly imagine how something wrong could be done with something so easy.

I manage to eat nearly 3,000 kcals every day. Most of it is grains, with legumes and veggies and fruits making up most of the difference, and cookies and sweats and fats making up what's left to add up to 100%. Only recently, when lifting weights, do I eat a protein bar of some kind.

I've managed to put on several pounds of lean muscle over the past few years, as a vegan, before eating an occasional protein bar.

I've also managed to eat this diet WITHOUT any intestinal issues (dare I saw I've never had intestinal issues: farting a lot, or upset stomach, ever, in 12 years as a vegan).

My kids eat this diet too, and they certainly need more protein than you or I, since they are actually growing, not just maintaining mass (or changing things a tiny bit by growing muscle). My kids, by the way, are growing like weeds and their blood tests show optimal health. No protein supplements! Just lots of pasta, veggies, rice, and nutritional yeast (and flax oil on top)!

I think that you are doing something wrong. I don't know what it is, but going vegan w/out any protein supplements and not just maintaining, but actually growing muscle mass is not rocket science or brain surgery. It is quite easy, without even as much as a plan (as you'd need as an omnivore).

You are complicating something that is easy.

I don't have any upset stomachs or tummy aches.
I don't need to consume protein supplements.
I'm building lean muscle every day, including today. ;)


You are trying to affirm the negative without any proof, only assumptions. What you say might be true if you eat a feakishly strange diet, but I certainly know that what you say doesn't apply at all to me, or to my family, or just about anyone I've met that's a vegan and put on muscle mass successfully. Go to www.veganfitness.net and ask around. Body builders need extra protein, but no swimmers, runners, cyclists, or just about anyone else needs that extra protein to build muscle, let alone maintain it.

For some reason, I have the urge to challange you to an arm wrestling contest. ;) Veggies vs. protein supplements.

Cherry
Feb 21st, 2008, 07:50 PM
I don't have any upset stomachs or tummy aches.
I don't need to consume protein supplements.
I'm building lean muscle every day, including today. ;)


I agree with you completely Rodolfo. I'm not sure how much lean muscle I'm building (I'm more muscley than I used to be but don't think I'll go in for any arm wrestling challenges!) but I know I get plenty of protein from my diet. I do rely on all my protein sources though, like pasta, bread, tofu, lentils and chickpeas, and wouldn't like to be without any of them. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

Perhaps I'm lucky that I've never had any digestive problems when I've had large amounts of fruit and veg, but I always thought it was because it was what nature intended. In my experience (thinking about my omnivorous family), you're more likely to suffer from 'digestive blockage' when you don't have enough fruit and veg not when you eat too much.

Korn
Feb 21st, 2008, 07:55 PM
Are you sure your opinions aren't colored by the gastroparesis you suffer from (which you have mentioned earlier), steven1222?

I never think about protein, have never seen a protein supplement, let alone eaten one, but whenever I take a blood test, my protein levels are above the average population. I don't have any digestive problems at all.

Since you have been a member here for over a year now, you may have seen that many vegans got rid of digestive problems they had as non-vegans - without even trying...

Mr Flibble
Feb 21st, 2008, 08:31 PM
I think about protein every few months for a few minutes. Max.

I have quite the opposite situation of not getting enough calories/fat and I'm pretty sure I get all the vitamins I need in one way or another. Right now I'd dearly love to eat 3 meals a day, feel full and satisfied and at the same time find I've eaten less calories/fat than 2500/95g.

steven1222
Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:14 PM
I manage to eat nearly 3,000 kcals every day. Most of it is grains, with legumes and veggies and fruits making up most of the difference, and cookies and sweats and fats making up what's left to add up to 100%. Only recently, when lifting weights, do I eat a protein bar of some kind.
You have said that you eat a lot of vegetables, presumably more than most people, but you still get more Calories from grains than from vegetables. That supports my argument that vegetables cannot be compared to nuts or grains on a per-Calorie basis.


For some reason, I have the urge to challange you to an arm wrestling contest. ;) Veggies vs. protein supplements.
lol you win. I neither have nor want such upper body strength; my preferred form of exercise/physical activity does not promote arm strength.



Are you sure your opinions aren't colored by the gastroparesis you suffer from (which you have mentioned earlier), steven1222?
Although gastroparesis makes me practically unable to eat nuts and vegetables, I already thought that nuts were not healthy or a good source of protein, and that vegetables could not be compared to nuts or grains on a per-Calorie basis, and that eating excessively large amounts of vegetables would cause digestive problems, even before I had that condition.


Since you have been a member here for over a year now, you may have seen that many vegans got rid of digestive problems they had as non-vegans - without even trying...
Yes, and I do not doubt it. Animal products are a cause or aggravating factor in many digestive problems.

xrodolfox
Feb 25th, 2008, 07:53 PM
I have no idea what you are advocating, other than sow panic about proteins.

Proteins are quite easy to get. From veggies, and grains and legumes. It takes no effort if you eat enough calories. Even the low-protein veggies have plenty of proteins, and grains and legumes have even more.

I don't know about digestive issues, because I rarely even as much as fart, and I eat eat beans and nuts a plenty. Must because I have healthy stomach flora? My kids and wife and most vegans I've met feel the same. Regardless, it really isn't something to worry about because it is EASY, and protein is everywhere as long as calories are abundant.

So what exactly is your problem with the idea that protein is abundant if a person consumes enough calories? What exactly is your "solution"?

I don't even know what you are arguing for.

steven1222
Feb 25th, 2008, 11:13 PM
I have no idea what you are advocating, other than sow panic about proteins.

More useful methods for comparing the protein content of foods.
The importance of getting proteins from a variety of sources.
The fact that people on unbalanced diets do need to watch protein or amino acid intake.
[s]Panic about proteinsNotice that #4 is written with a strikethrough.


So what exactly is your problem with the idea that protein is abundant if a person consumes enough calories? What exactly is your "solution"?
My problem with the idea that "protein is abundant if a person consumes enough calories" is that the total amount of protein a person eats per day is almost meaningless after being adjusted for other variables, such as amino acid content, number of meals per day, body weight, etc. The solution is to eat a wide variety of foods, spaced throughout the day.


I think that you are doing something wrong when I can hardly imagine how something wrong could be done with something so easy.
It is not "so easy" for me. I become so uncomfortable after eating that I can only force myself to eat once per day, which means that my body is using large amounts of protein for energy at other times of the day. I am also forced to depend almost entirely on grains, which do not provide a proper balance of amino acids. I know that protein is not a problem for most people, but I hope you see that the only reason I am doing something "wrong" is because of circumstances beyond my control.

I really do not care to argue about this any more. I would much rather antagonize some ignorant meat heads and dairy junkies than an admirable person on a vegan forum.

harpy
Feb 26th, 2008, 01:30 AM
When we give our usual reassurance about it being easy for vegans to get enough proteins provided you eat a good range of foods and enough calories, strictly speaking we should perhaps add the proviso "unless you have some digestive or other health problems, in which case you may need to plan more carefully".

OTOH I suspect that proviso probably applies to omnivores as well - that if they have certain digestive problems they may have difficulty getting enough protein from their diet without careful planning?

xrodolfox
Feb 26th, 2008, 09:00 PM
+1 to Harpy.

I think that if you've got a medical issue, then of course you need some serious planning for proteins, and probably many other nutrients macro and micro.

However, for those without digestive issues, just eating enough calories is enough. Heck, I make sure to eat many times more calories than most, and I know that I don't really need supplements (and my blood results tell the same story).

Again, if you have trouble getting down the calories, I can see how protein could be an issue. But that's more an exception than the rule.

emzy1985
Feb 27th, 2008, 10:41 AM
I never worry about protien. I just eat healthly and now I'm going to the gym I find that I have some muscles WAY HEY! Good for those mosh pits ay?

What is the recommended daily protien intake btw? I heard that if you eat too much, like in an omnivorous diet, it can lead to pressure on your organs and cause cancers and failure.

steven1222
Feb 28th, 2008, 12:03 AM
What is the recommended daily protien intake btw?

I would assume it varies by country. All I know is that the recommended daily intake in the United States is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or about 5 grams per stone.

emzy1985
Feb 28th, 2008, 07:42 AM
Oh ok so I weigh 10.5stone so I need 52.5grams protien per day? I'm pretty sure I exceed that although I've never really monitored it.

gogs67
Mar 19th, 2008, 07:30 PM
I think we're forgetting that everyones metabolism is different!I deff feel better when i supplement my normal diet with extra protein and i know my muscle mass reduces when i dont!
For others this won't be the case!

xrodolfox
Mar 19th, 2008, 09:51 PM
^ That is true.

Everyone is different.

I weight train 4 days a week (1hr each), I run two days a week, and I swim 6+ times a week, and I don't really need much protein to grow muscles. I do need lots and lots of sugars and carbs... or else I get very very hungry and sleepy. I am getting a bit stronger/bigger every month due to my weight training, so I'm certainly getting what I need in protein without supplementation or much focus. My focus is on carbs, and lots of them.

gogs67
Mar 19th, 2008, 10:23 PM
I work in a job where we can go 4 or 5 hours without a break carrying heavy things up and down 2 or 3 flights of stairs constantly so my body's pretty much 'running on empty' a lot of the time once what i've eaten in the morning is burned off. Like i say, when i do spells of anaerobic training then protein supplements every day work wonders, the only time i used any extra fructose/glucose supplements for my glycogen levels was if i'd been working then was playing soccer in the evening and went to kick boxing after that, i really had to watch my nutrient intake there, i certainly didn't get enough from my normal diet!:D

AlexKunzill
May 9th, 2008, 02:37 AM
I read somwehere that protein intake has to be like 10% of your daily calories or something?

It was in some vegan book...I can't remember exactly, I was only skim reading. It said that Carnivores get like 12-15% a day, which is too much.

I go running frequently and do a 3 hour session at the gym each week, I also work 36 hours a week in a busy kitchen and walk a few miles to college every day and I dont drive, so normally I just walk everywhere.

How much protein should I be aiming for? I weigh 64.4.kg and I'm 18.

Cheers for any help!