Tamari? Shoyu? Soy sauce? Wheat free?

[Mahk]

What's the difference? I've tried to taste a difference but find they all seem pretty much the same to me. Do other people find a difference?:confused:

The only one that I can tell a difference in is Bragg's aminos, which I know is fundamentally different, so no surprise there. It does have a distinctive taste that I prefer in some applications (like in soup recipes).

[bryzee86]

I don't really know the difference, but I have tamari and all I know is that it's good. It's just like light soy sauce.

[Sarah_]

I'm confused about the whole soy sauce thing. Is it okay to eat? I know it's made of soy beans but is there something about the processing that makes it non-vegan? Or am I on crack and eating all my rice with Bragg's for no reason?

[Mahk]

They are all vegan, high in sodium even if you get the "low sodium" variety, stain the teeth with chronic use (as does cola, coffee, and blueberries, so says my dentist) and have no real nutritional value because we use just very small quantities, but boy are they good especially in Asian food.

[Kitteh]

Tamari is wheat free :) I lub it.

[maikeru]

As no one else has answered, this is my understanding:

Shoyu is Japanese for soy sauce, of which they are many varieties. But the version we get is usually made with about equal measure of wheat and soya beans. When the proper fermented version was introduced to the US it was called Tamari to distinguish it from the, usually artificially processed, sauces already available. It is used to enhance the flavour of a dish.

Tamari is made without wheat, traditionally from the liquid by products of miso production. It it used more to add flavour to a dish, and makes a good healthy alternative to using salt. Because the name Shoyu had been used for other stuff, and Tamari for Shoyu, to distinguish it from the rest it was released to the US market as the tautologous Wheat Free Tamari.

Soy Sauce usually refers to Chinese style sauces (from where it first entered Japanese culture many centuries ago), and is made with a higher proportion of soya beans than wheat. Dark soya sauces, which are only used in cooking, are fermented for longer than light ones, also include molasses to give it its colour and sweeten the taste.

Michael.

[ellaminnowpea]

ICkkk I hate all of the above! Way too salty and they give me headaches.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure Tamari tastes different but its been a while so it's hard to remember.

[Mahk]

I just threw out an empty bottle of tamari that contained wheat so not all tamari is wheat free. San J (http://www.san-j.com/faq.asp#1) was the brand.

Does everyone keep it in the fridge like me? Does it ever go bad if one buys an alcohol free variety? Their site says to use it up within 1-3 months of opening but I've had some last a year or more.

[RedWellies]

Wow, I've just been reading about soy sauce on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_sauce). I never knew there were so many versions!

[cobweb]

Tamari is my favourite, i think it tastes 'cleaner' than than the others.

[Anouk]

i've only tried tamari and it goes very well with tofu and some other food.

[Cumin]

They are all vegan, high in sodium even if you get the "low sodium" variety, stain the teeth with chronic use (as does cola, coffee, and blueberries, so says my dentist) and have no real nutritional value because we use just very small quantities, but boy are they good especially in Asian food.

Mahk, just a comment...
Although you may well be right about _all_ soy sauce brands currently being vegan, I think it's risky to make statements to that effect without being specific about brands. Experience shows that there's nothing to stop a manufacturer from putting unexpected, pointless non-vegan substances in a particular brand. Subsequently, I always check out the ingredients on any product I've not encountered before, however innocent it may seem. For a new vegan, or inexperienced label-reader, I think this is a good policy to recommend.

P.S. I LOVE soy sauce of all types. Just nice on rice.

[maikeru]

I just threw out an empty bottle of tamari that contained wheat so not all tamari is wheat free. San J (http://www.san-j.com/faq.asp#1) was the brand.

As I said, in the US the name Tamari is used for Shoyu and Shoyu for processed sauces. What you had is not real Tamari in the Japanese sense that the rest of the world uses, it is just confusingly named.

Michael.

[Fungus]

I'd be very hesitant to say that all soya sauce brands are vegan though .. I have seen lactic acid in quite a few and they dont say its vegan on the packet so ..

[Mahk]

Cumin, yes, true, a vegan, new or old, should always read the ingredients of everything. Even us old timers should every time because you never know when a company may switch an ingredient or two as they often do. I doubt we'll ever see a non-vegan soy sauce but who knows.

Michael, I'll take your word for it that real tamari shouldn't have wheat in it but some brands in both my country and yours (http://www.auravita.com/products/aura/TWEN23580.asp?RefId=220&adid=TWEN23580) do, and some are even made by Japanese based companies claiming to be "authentic". I currently have wheat-free in my new bottle but like I said before, I'm not sure I can tell the difference. I would have to do a double blind taste test to be convinced personally I wasn't just fooling myself into thinking I could tell a difference.

Fungus, although Peta has been spreading some false information that other vegan groups have reiterated as being factual, I personally consider lactic acid to be safe because all convincing reports state that although milk contains lactic acid, it is not the base material for modern day lactic acid production used in non-dairy foods.

Bacteria excrete lactic acid from eating sugars and carbohydrates. [This acid is what causes tooth decay BTW; bacteria in your mouth eat residual food particles trapped in the crevices of your teeth, and the lactic acid they excrete dissolves the tooth enamel, causing tooth decay.] This is how it is made, today, according to several sources:

"The source of commercial lactic acid used in consumer products is almost always carbohydrate fermentation.. The carbohydrates used are almost always obtained from plant sources.If the ingredient label on a food product or cosmetic product says "lactic acid," the lactic acid almost certainly comes from carbohydrate fermentation."

[Read more from the source (http://shakahara.com/lactic_acid.html) about how Peta has goofed up in their "caring consumer" (vegan food list) entry on this matter.]

"Although it can be fermented from lactose (milk sugar), commercially used lactic acid is derived by using bacteria such as Bacillus acidilacti, Lactobacillus delbueckii or Lactobacillus bulgaricus to ferment carbohydrates from nondairy sources such as cornstarch, potatoes and molasses. Thus, although it is commonly known as "milk acid", vegan products can contain lactic acid as an ingredient."

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acid).

"Lactose, or milk sugar, should not be confused with the much more common lactic acid, or with galactose, which are not dairy derived. Lactose is generally indicate by -lacto- while lactic acid is indicated by -lact- in an ingredient name. Lactic acid can be safely assumed to be vegan unless its part of a compound such as a stearate"

Source (http://www.exploreveg.org/resources/ingredients.html).

[Roxy]

I find Tamari to have a stronger flavour than soy sauce. Personally, I prefer the lower sodium soy sauce though.

[maikeru]

Michael, I'll take your word for it that real tamari shouldn't have wheat in it but some brands in both my country and yours (http://www.auravita.com/products/aura/TWEN23580.asp?RefId=220&adid=TWEN23580) do

I suspect that might be a mistake on the site as that page contradicts itself:


Product Description

The most important difference is that Tamari is a Gluten-Free soy sauce. This means that it is suitable for coeliacs and those with a wheat intolerance. It has a slightly richer taste than the Shoyu.

Ingredients

Water, Soya Beans, Wheat, Sea Salt, Koji (Aspergillus Oryzae).

I will try to remember to take a look t a bottle this week when I am next in a store as I have a different brand in my cupboard.

Michael.

[maikeru]

I was able to visit H&B today and check a bottle of Sanchi Tamari. As I thought, and as stated on their web site (http://www.sanchi.co.uk/faqs.asp?ProductRangeID=30), wheat is not an ingredient and it clearly states "gluten free" on the front of the bottle. It is a mistake on that shopping site which seems to have just copied and pasted the ingredients from their Shoyu.

Michael.

[bryzee86]

And here is a bit of supporting evidence:

http://www.sanchi.co.uk/products3.asp?ProductID=47&ProductRangeID=30

[Mahk]

OK, a typo I guess.

How about Kikkoman Tamari? They're the world's largest manufacturer of soy sauces I believe, you see them all over here in the states and they have at least some UK distribution I see (http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=kikkoman+tamari&btnG=Search+Products). Going straight to their own site (http://www.kikkomanusa.com/_pages/consumer/prod_indiv.asp?loc=101&pfid=8&pfiid=53)mentions they contain ("just a touch of") wheat.

Is the brand as well known in the UK as it is here?

[Note: I'm not saying "world's largest" equals "world's best or most authentic", after all the world's largest restaurant is McD's and they are the worst.]

[Kitteh]

I buy Sprial Foods Tamari, it's wheat-free and lovely. I think other soy sauces taste stronger, but it's been years since I ate regular soy sauce and my tastes have changed.

I would say experiment with them all, see which you prefer ;)

[maikeru]

Is the brand as well known in the UK as it is here?

I would say fairly well known, if not by name by the shape of the bottle!

But they only sell a single Shoyu "soy sauce" here competing with the Chinese sauces, they do not sell a Tamari.

http://kikkoman.co.uk/range/index.shtml

Michael.

[Mahk]

they do not sell a Tamari.

With this new blue background color I notice hyperlinks are harder to spot. Did you not see the link I provided to the UK Asian supermarket which sells it?

http://shop.waiyeehong.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=116&currency=GBP

£2.35. You can buy on-line, they have UK delivery, or you can buy in person at their Bristol store. A cursory search indicates it is the only tamari they sell and they have lots of other Kikkoman products not shown at your link as well.

[maikeru]

With this new blue background color I notice hyperlinks are harder to spot. Did you not see the link I provided to the UK Asian supermarket which sells it?

That is not a UK product but an imported one, though. You can find web sites that sell all manner of products that are not officially available in this country.

I really am not sure what point you are trying to make, but my link was to Kikkoman's own British web site showing the products they make for and sell in the UK market. These are the only ones you are be able to buy in a normal high street store. Obviously they do not list products they produce elsewhere but do not sell here.

Michael.

[AlexKunzill]

Hey! I just thought I could add something quickly.


I bought some Japanese Rice Crackers on wednesday from Tescos, they were some other brand, cant remember which.


Anyway, the ingredients listed Shoyu and said wheat was involved during the making of the soy sauce.

However, they said that it was OK for coeliacs as the wheat has changed so dramatically through fermentation. They seemed to know what they were talking about and said how the coeliac society ( I cant remember the name) approved of wheat being in the soy sauce, so therefore the rice crackers being OK for coeliacs.

Ill find out the brand, so that more can be found out. It seemed pretty geniune.

They were Vegan and tasted amazing too! Better than any other rice crackers ive tried.

I find that Tamari is much thicker than standard Shoyu. I prefer the taste of Tamari as I love Miso (Hatcho - clearspring) soup so much. I also find that its nicer for dipping sushi into as the tamari sticks to the rice more.