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Risker
Jul 22nd, 2008, 11:54 AM
I've been thinking about this issue for a while now, wondering if the organic food many people buy really is any better for them or the environment than mass produced hydroponically grown food. Here's one article I found on it.


“Go organic” has become the battlecry of thousands of Americans, with most assuming that if a fruit, vegetable or other consumable plant is labeled “organic” it is automatically a better, healthier product. But is that really true?

The fact is that organic and hydroponic both embrace a desire to protect our planet’s fragile environment. Both eschew harmful chemical fertilizers and pesticides. Both seek an end to irresponsible water pollution and soil contamination. So what is it that separates these two “do no harm” philosophies?

What defines “organic” may surprise you. That little “organic” label on produce is the result of a tangled mass of bureaucratic definitions, which seem to vary wildly from one state to the next. In fact, a product that falls far below one state’s organic standards can receive the “gold standard” label of Certified Organic in another. There seems to be little consistency from one state to the next as to what truly constitutes organic produce.

The basic goals of organic growers include controlling pests naturally and without the toxic pesticides that also kill birds and bees; replenishing our nutrient-depleted soil by composting and other natural methods; and using artificial nutrients in moderation, primarily through the humus that comes from compost. Certainly, this is a step up from the traditional agri-industry, which is notorious for its wanton use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers. But does that make organic your best choice?

In order to be considered organic, plants cannot be nourished with mineral salts or any other refined substances, even though these are of a higher purity than most organic fertilizers. Only unrefined minerals can be applied to organic crops. The problem is that a number of these unrefined minerals, although natural, are toxic in nature. For example, mined phosphate contains excessive amounts of fluoride and radioactive radium, both of which can be extremely harmful to humans. Chloride is another natural mineral permitted in organic agriculture, even though it is incredibly bad for both plants and soil.

Organic farming also allows the use of manure as a natural fertilizer. This has caused a recurring health problem due to E-coli and salmonella outbreaks. We all remember the recent outbreak of serious gastro-intestinal illnesses traced to a California lettuce grower whose produce had been contaminated by E-coli due to the use of manure. And the Western Fertilizer Handbook points to a shocking number of similar illnesses traced back to manure used on organically-grown crops.

Hydroponic – what it is and what it is not

Hydroponic growers have completely eliminated the need for soil and its micro-organisms. This has resulted in better crop quality, higher growth rates and much healthier produce, all without soil erosion or water supply contamination. The fertilizers used in hydroponics are much more pure than those utilized in organic growing, and they also leave no residue in cultivated produce. The result is that more people can be fed, less precious natural resources are used, and the produce is much healthier and flavorful.

Hydroponic crops are generally grown in a far more sterile environment than organic crops. Precise controls are utilized to ensure optimum growth, extended growing seasons, and maximum nutrition. This sterile environment also dramatically reduces the need for pesticides. When a form of pest control is needed, only natural, non-toxic materials are ever used.

Hydroponic growers use highly refined minerals in their nutrient solutions, simply because mined minerals dissolve poorly and, as mentioned earlier, can be extremely toxic to humans and even harmful to plant life. In fact, when hydroponic crops are analyzed for any trace of chemicals listed on the EPA’s priority pollutant list, absolutely none are found.

Another obvious benefit of hydroponically-grown produce is enhanced nutrition. Compared to their soil-bound counterparts, fruits, vegetables and herbs grown hydroponically typically offer a significantly increased amount of the vitamins and minerals that we all need to maintain good health. Additionally, hydroponic produce has superior flavor and appearance, and even stays fresh longer.

So there you have it. As the great “organic versus hydroponic” debate rages on, you now have the inside scoop on what each is and is not.

For a healthier, younger-looking you, create your own hydroponic antioxidant garden!
Everyone wants to feel better, live longer and look younger. One fantastic way to enjoy all these great benefits and include incredibly tasty foods in your daily diet is to start your own indoor antioxidant garden.

Antioxidants are organic substances, primarily the Vitamins E, C and beta-carotene found in many fruits and vegetables, and they are proving to be incredibly helpful in preventing heart disease, stroke, cancer and even premature aging. When consumed, antioxidants seek out and neutralize free radical molecules in your body. Free radicals damage healthy cells and, over time, this damage can become irreversible. So it just makes sense to provide your body with the antioxidants it needs to stay healthy and looking great.

Strawberries, tomatoes, red peppers, red and black beans, and lettuce all flourish beautifully in a hydroponic setting. And each of these tasty treats is literally packed with antioxidant Vitamins E, C and beta-carotene. Plus, their fabulous, rich colors and fragrances will fill your kitchen with a pizazz you’ll simply love.

So take your daily health and beauty routine to a whole new level, while also enjoying amazingly flavorful produce year-round, by creating your own hydroponic antioxidant garden!


Resources:
http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/quicktips/OrganicHydroponicArticle.pdf
www.rd.com/content/printContent.do?contentID=15966

http://www.modernsage.com/Expert/ArticleDetails.aspx?Article_Id=464

Pob
Jul 22nd, 2008, 12:25 PM
One thing I'd worry about with hydroponic and conventional agriculture is trace elements. For instance iodine is missing in most foods because the soil is depleted, and farmers don't add it back because it isn't needed for plants to thrive.

By using refined chemicals to grow plants in, surely that means plants will be totally lacking in many important trace minerals. Even more so than plants grown in depleted soil, that is fertilised with chemical fertilisers.

I thought that was the point of not refining fertilisers for organic agriculture - you're not stripping out all the trace elements that may not be essential for the plants to grow, but are important for humans.

Risker
Jul 22nd, 2008, 12:27 PM
A quote from one of the links given at the bottom of that article.


Another point that can be made is that strict vegetarians or animal
rights activists may be offended by the use of blood, bone, horn,
hoof and feather meals to grow their food, but these are primary
nutrient sources for organic farmers.

So can anyone give me some reasons why I would want to spend extra on the organic tomatoes in my supermarket rather than the hydroponically grown mass produced ones?

EDIT: Oops, sorry Pob, posted at the same time.

harpy
Jul 22nd, 2008, 02:19 PM
I don't know whether organic stuff is any better for you but I thought the environmental impact might be lower - don't really know though. There's a discussion about environmental impact here:

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/quicktips/OrganicHydroponicArticle.pdf

Have they found ways to recycle the water etc yet?

Risker
Jul 22nd, 2008, 02:28 PM
As far as I can tell growing hydroponically is significantly more environmentally friendly than traditionally grown organic production. It uses less water, takes up less space, doesn't require animal manure etc.

gogs67
Jul 22nd, 2008, 03:07 PM
Last testing i heard they were saying organic food fruit/veg is no more beneficial to you than conventionally grown but it is good for the local economy as peopl tend to buy stuff organic that's grown closer!

Just for the record, in my experience, hydroponic plants have proven to provide a better yeild and flavour than soil grown!:D

harpy
Jul 22nd, 2008, 03:27 PM
As far as I can tell growing hydroponically is significantly more environmentally friendly than traditionally grown organic production. It uses less water, takes up less space, doesn't require animal manure etc.

The author of that piece I posted doesn't seem to agree as they said 'In the final analysis, organic farming has a low environmental impact on the Earth, and this is an important point from a philosophical view. Until hydroponic growers can find a way to recycle used water, media and nutrients, the hydroponic method will not be equal to "organic" in these terms.' Not sure I follow the argument though.

I guess the overall impact would depend partly on what would happen to land that's currently organically farmed if people who currently buy organics switched to hydroponics? At the moment I believe organically farmed land provides more in the way of wildlife habitats than conventionally farmed land (or hydroponic facilities). If the once-organic land were instead left fallow then that might be OK, but would that happen in practice?

Where do the nutrients used in hydroponics come from?

ETA article about hydroponic enterprise in Kent: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jun/11/greenbuilding.food

Risker
Jul 22nd, 2008, 04:36 PM
I made a thread about Thanet Earth before, I find it really interesting :)

I must have mis-read the article you mentioned about water usage but other sources say it uses considerably less;



Hydroponics also saves an incredible amount of water; it uses as little as 1/20 the amount as a regular farm to produce the same amount of food. The water table can be impacted by the water use and run-off of chemicals from farms, but hydroponics may minimize impact as well as having the advantage that water use and water returns are easier to measure. This can save the farmer money by allowing reduced water use and the ability to measure consequences to the land around a farm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponic


The water is then caught at the end of the gutter where 90 percent of the water is recycled. She said the remaining 10 percent is either used or evaporated.
"A field farmer needs 90 percent more water to grow the same amount of crops," Taylor said.

http://www.observernews.com/stories/current/news/120106/Lettuce.shtml

Risker
Jul 22nd, 2008, 04:41 PM
I guess the overall impact would depend partly on what would happen to land that's currently organically farmed if people who currently buy organics switched to hydroponics? At the moment I believe organically farmed land provides more in the way of wildlife habitats than conventionally farmed land (or hydroponic facilities). If the once-organic land were instead left fallow then that might be OK, but would that happen in practice?

That's a very important issue, however it's also the same argument used by many animal farmers for the reason we should support them and eat the beef they produce etc. If a farm isn't being used to raise cattle/grow crops that doesn't automatically mean it will be concreted over. What happens to the land that is freed up by this method of growing needs to be addressed but I don't think it's a good reason not to reap the benefits offered from hydroponically grown food.


Where do the nutrients used in hydroponics come from?

No idea, that's a very good point.

Marrers
Jul 22nd, 2008, 05:43 PM
So can anyone give me some reasons why I would want to spend extra on the organic tomatoes in my supermarket rather than the hydroponically grown mass produced ones?
So where can you get these hydroponically grown items? (I've never heard of them I have to admit.) Are you saying most mainstream fruit and veg is grown this way Risker?

horselesspaul
Jul 22nd, 2008, 05:56 PM
So where can you get these hydroponically grown items?
Skunksbury's.


Sorry.

Risker
Jul 22nd, 2008, 06:07 PM
That's kind of the problem marrers, unlike organic food hydroponically grown food isn't marked as such. A shame really.

I belive that at the moment if you buy a supermarket tomato marked as UK produced and not marked organic then it's pretty much definately hydroponically produced.

mariana
Jul 22nd, 2008, 11:55 PM
This is really interesting. I'd never read much about hydroponic farming so I looked up some stuff. One of the websites I read said something about using rainwater, but I don't know how many people actually do that or how difficult it is.

eve
Jul 23rd, 2008, 05:30 AM
Hydroponically grown tomatoes are quite common here, but the plants are 'watered' with a chemical solution, so they can't be treated as organic.

harpy
Jul 23rd, 2008, 10:18 AM
This is really interesting. I'd never read much about hydroponic farming so I looked up some stuff. One of the websites I read said something about using rainwater, but I don't know how many people actually do that or how difficult it is.

The place described in that Guardian article I posted a link to was going to capture (and recycle) rainwater. It does look as if it might be a bit of an eyesore but I don't know that Thanet is all that glamorous anyway!

harpy
Jul 23rd, 2008, 11:21 AM
That's a very important issue, however it's also the same argument used by many animal farmers for the reason we should support them and eat the beef they produce etc. If a farm isn't being used to raise cattle/grow crops that doesn't automatically mean it will be concreted over. What happens to the land that is freed up by this method of growing needs to be addressed but I don't think it's a good reason not to reap the benefits offered from hydroponically grown food.

Have been thinking about this. Seems to me that if you buy organic stuff you can use your money directly to support a farming method that is meant to provide wildlife habitats, whereas if you buy hydroponically grown stuff you're using it to support big wildlife-free greenhouses, and don't have any control over what happens to the land that's freed up (if any is).

Not saying that everyone should buy organic stuff but I think that, for now at any rate, it's a reasonable choice.

hgpns
Jul 27th, 2008, 04:43 AM
One thing I'd worry about with hydroponic and conventional agriculture is trace elements. For instance iodine is missing in most foods because the soil is depleted, and farmers don't add it back because it isn't needed for plants to thrive.

By using refined chemicals to grow plants in, surely that means plants will be totally lacking in many important trace minerals. Even more so than plants grown in depleted soil, that is fertilised with chemical fertilisers.

I thought that was the point of not refining fertilisers for organic agriculture - you're not stripping out all the trace elements that may not be essential for the plants to grow, but are important for humans.

This is exactly what I'd be worried about, too. Anyone hear about amazing crops being grown with diluted sea water? It's got trace amounts of all the trace elements from the natural sea salts. I'm really looking for THAT to become mainstream.

treehugga
Jul 27th, 2008, 11:32 AM
I've grown both hydo & organic.

You can recycle the water, both have yielded good crops with less pest loss with the hydo's, but way more expensive to set up and uses lots of electicity to run pumps, lights etc.

I prefer the organic way and recycle green stuff as green manure with great results and it just seems more natural to me.

treehugga
Jul 27th, 2008, 11:36 AM
This is exactly what I'd be worried about, too. Anyone hear about amazing crops being grown with diluted sea water? It's got trace amounts of all the trace elements from the natural sea salts. I'm really looking for THAT to become mainstream.
We're doing it here in Bendigo on a small scale by using a pump/filter to deminerilize and desalinize bore water. The result is pure water. Good for household use and crops.
It's called a de-salination machine (using reverse osmosis) processes salts up to 10,000 PPM and the result is 100% pure water.

There is no diluted sea water in it though!

prawnsize
Jul 30th, 2008, 11:59 AM
I don't know about which one is better for you but I do know that here in Portugal the organic and naturally grown stuff tastes soooooo much better!

rianaelf
Jul 30th, 2008, 12:16 PM
I would personally go for organic wen i can afford it but the one thing that worries me is what some farmers use as their organic fertilizer, apart form manure, I know dried blood is used in some cases and is considered organic cos i soppose it is but i don't want to eat anything like that and its something that always worries me wen i buy any furit or veg.

Does anyone know any more about this?