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GreenLight
Dec 13th, 2008, 07:13 PM
This of course is hypothetical because the chances of the entire world going vegan in the future is impossible. However, if it WAS possible, what do you think would have to happen NOW?

My main concern is how politicians are affected by the beef and dairy and fast food industries. How can the world be educated to know that these industries have perpetuated the myth that consuming their products will make them healthy?

What types of activities or campaigns do you think have the most affect in turning people away from consuming and wearing animals? (slaughterhouse footage? Education about veganism? Education about the environment? Celebrity and other endorsements? Anything else?)

And what do you think the future would be like if everyone was vegan?

What would happen to all the restaurants (fast food and other?)

What would happen to the economy? What industries would disappear and which would flourish?

What would happen to the hunting industry?

What about the fashion industry?

Zoos? Circuses? Vivisection?

What about all the people who are now employed in the business of animal slaughter? (not just slaughterhouse employees, but truck drivers, etc)

What will happen to the crime rates? Will they go down? (would people be less aggressive if they did not eat meat?)

Do you think religious / spiritual people will feel more in tune with their god or goddess or gods because they are finally not taking part in anything that kills another living being?

What do you think would happen to the health industry once people aren't getting sick and dying from consuming all the meat and dairy?

How else would the world be affected in POSITIVE ways?

Sarabi
Dec 15th, 2008, 08:35 PM
Please tell me why you don't think the whole world could go vegan. I'm sure 100% of the world won't be vegan, but at least I'd like to see the industries of animal products outlawed. But quite frankly I'm tired of hearing assertions that a vegan world is unfathomable, especially since it comes most often from non-vegans who can't fathom themselves, much less the entire world, going vegan.

You raise some good questions. Celebrity endorsements are probably less useful than a person's friend going vegan. You can talk to your friend, but not a celebrity. It would only be effective, I think, if the person were very, very celebrated and for nonviolent reasons, i.e. The Dalai Lama. The kind of person who is celebrated for being speaking out on that kind of issue.

Slaughterhouse footage is great for opening eyes, but seems as likely to make people temporarily "boycott" the industry as actually give it up. I started a discussion with mostly meat-eaters about some slaughterhouse footage, and some of them refused to watch it and maybe most of them refused to watch it because they all commented on my descriptions while none of them actually commented on the videos. I didn't ask them (except one who got pretty indignant about my asking). But others I know watched and were satisfied with being "minimal meat eaters."

Education about veganism is the route I'm planning to take in my vegan campaign. Here are planned sanctions:
Go Vegan Day/Week
Bring in a vegan bodybuilder to speak on nutrition and veganism
Sell chocolates for Vegantine's Day
Give a presentation on Why Vegan?
Host a vegan dinner at the end of Go Vegan Week
Co-Sponsor events with other campus groups to serve vegan food

Things already done:
Asked dining hall to add vegan options
Distributed pamphlets/fliers
Made a tofurky for my floor
I think my hall director now buys organic soy milk for me whenever he serves special breakfasts to the floor

Actually, the rest of your questions do not interest me. The answers are obvious to me. How are those even questions?

The world would be affected positively because animals would be happier. People would have more compassion and would be less arrogant about their human status. That's about it. Obviously the non-vegan industries would have to go. Fashion would simply become a vegan industry.

gogs67
Dec 16th, 2008, 01:16 AM
I take it we are only talking about the developed 'First World' here? We could cope.
But many tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people would perish of malnutrition worldwide unless an infrastructure was put in place for the provision of a lot of extra vegetable protein for them, to replace the lost animal/fish/insect protein.

eve
Dec 16th, 2008, 02:04 AM
why waste time talking about things that are completely hypothetical?

exec
Dec 16th, 2008, 02:19 AM
100% vegan is purely hypothetical utopia. Given this world of utter corruption, you would expect a near 100% meat-eater society, but we are still here to provide a counter 0.x%(maybe). So, there reverse shouldn't come into reality. Pick any topic, and you should seldom come across any 100% things.

And it's bad to aim for a 100% vegan world, even as a vegan, for the time being, because you should end up whining and complaining about how corrupted the world is today. Aim at reducing it, even by a margin of 0.00x%, which is a large enough amount considering the number of lives killed every day nowadays.

Johnstuff
Dec 16th, 2008, 02:32 PM
I take it we are only talking about the developed 'First World' here? We could cope.
But many tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people would perish of malnutrition worldwide unless an infrastructure was put in place for the provision of a lot of extra vegetable protein for them, to replace the lost animal/fish/insect protein.


All the soya that is currently fed to non-humans bred for food would be more than enough.

I also assume we're only talking about humans being vegan. Carnivore non-human animals won't go vegan unless you force them to - not really a good idea IMO.

gogs67
Dec 16th, 2008, 05:48 PM
All the soya that is currently fed to non-humans bred for food would be more than enough.

.
I think we all know that there's more food thrown away every day in the developed world than is needed to feed every person on the planet :( but my point still stands that i think it would be near to impossible to find an adequate vegan diet for large areas of the worlds population unless the food was shipped/airlifted in. And what environmental damage would that cause?
And where is this animal feed soy grown? Areas of destroyed rainforest.
It's a lovely thought, but..................

sandra
Dec 16th, 2008, 07:36 PM
And where is this animal feed soy grown? Areas of destroyed rainforest.
It's a lovely thought, but..................


The land that is now used for growing 'food' for the animals could be used to grow food for the new vegan population.
It would be a better move environmentally for the planet than the situation that exists today, so even if food had to be transported to certain countries (which I don't think would be necessary) it would still be less damaging to the planet in the long run.

The human population WILL be 100% vegan sometime in the earth's future..........I'm sure of that. :)

whalespace
Dec 16th, 2008, 08:42 PM
Hello GreenLight. You come across like an essay planner.

On the subject of moving food: I fed myself from 25 kg sacks of dry soy beans and lentils for several years. 25kg of soybeans could stretch to three months as far as minimum amino acids were concerned. Add the grains, seeds, and other foods which could not be provided locally and you soon reach the mass of an adult. More resource effective to move the human.... which brings us to integration.
Veg*nism could certainly benefit from well formed and consistent explanations of its relevance to Earth life... translated into a medium which people understand regardless of schooling [since many people are minimally versed beyond family life].

gogs67
Dec 16th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Hello GreenLight. You come across like an essay planner.

On the subject of moving food: I fed myself from 25 kg sacks of dry soy beans and lentils for several years. 25kg of soybeans could stretch to three months as far as minimum amino acids were concerned. Add the grains, seeds, and other foods which could not be provided locally and you soon reach the mass of an adult. More resource effective to move the human.... which brings us to integration.
Veg*nism could certainly benefit from well formed and consistent explanations of its relevance to Earth life... translated into a medium which people understand regardless of schooling [since many people are minimally versed beyond family life].
But the whole point of modern agriculture is that the majority of people are seperated from the actual production side!

whalespace
Dec 16th, 2008, 11:23 PM
But the whole point of modern agriculture is that the majority of people are seperated from the actual production side!

I was noting that if resources were a limiting factor, then shipping the mass of the human to the human three or four times each year would seem dafter than shipping the mass of the human to the food once. My mental context at the time of writing was one of disaster relief. I realise that groups of humans carry all manner of identity legacies, and integration can be enormously resource sapping [if even possible]. I was suggesting that social integration methods or 'tools' might be worth developing.

I harbour no desire to press people into agricultural production, nor to educate the beautiful landscape out of them.

sandra
Dec 17th, 2008, 10:55 PM
It hurts my brain sometimes when I read Whalespace's posts............but I love them and am intrigued by them. He speaks a LOT of sense! :)

Sarabi
Dec 17th, 2008, 11:52 PM
What do you mean by "integration"? There's an obscure term for you.

whalespace
Dec 19th, 2008, 12:06 AM
Integration: adding or combining parts to make a unified whole.


In context, maybe promoting perspectives which facilitate coexistence and perhaps beneficial interaction between groups which consider themselves distinct.

Sarabi
Dec 19th, 2008, 12:14 AM
Integration: adding or combining parts to make a unified whole.


In context, maybe promoting perspectives which facilitate coexistence and perhaps beneficial interaction between groups which consider themselves distinct.
Oooh. You mean "cooperation.":D

emzy1985
Dec 19th, 2008, 03:28 PM
Maaan I thought this would be fun to write how be would imagine things to be when/if we ever manage to get the entire world vegan. However it has been spoiled. Do you guys have no sense of fun anymore???? :(

cobweb
Dec 19th, 2008, 03:38 PM
no they don't emzy :devil:

- it would be great, an ideal solution to many problems, and IF there are areas where it's impossible to grow plant foods (and i am struggling to imagine this now that we have indoor propagation systems) then it would still be way kinder to the environment to ship or air frate food to those areas than it would be to eat animals. Anyway, don't we all buy food now that flies round the globe?. If we used land locally for growing that would be reduced or even stop completely.

I don't understand why any vegan would think it's 'a nice idea but just a dream' :eek:. We might aswell all give up now, eh? :mad:.

emzy1985
Dec 19th, 2008, 03:58 PM
no they don't emzy :devil:

- it would be great, an ideal solution to many problems, and IF there are areas where it's impossible to grow plant foods (and i am struggling to imagine this now that we have indoor propagation systems) then it would still be way kinder to the environment to ship or air frate food to those areas than it would be to eat animals. Anyway, don't we all buy food now that flies round the globe?. If we used land locally for growing that would be reduced or even stop completely.

I don't understand why any vegan would like it's 'a nice idea but just a dream' :eek:. We might aswell all give up now, eh? :mad:.

These are the non-AR people!

cobweb
Dec 19th, 2008, 04:08 PM
yeah, i just don't get it atall, i could never feel passionately about a whole lifestyle unless i thought it was sustainable :sad:.

i choose not to eat animals or things made out of their bits and pieces but it's lot bigger an issue for me, personally, than what i eat or don't eat. Like what i do or do not eat has a tiny impact, but a movement which encourages others to see things from a different viewpoint, to question the status quo, and to change things for the good of animals, humans and the environment, well that is just amazing, and something i feel so proud to be part of :thumbsup:.

To be honest, questions like 'what would happen to all the fast food outlets' just bypass me in their insignificance. It would take a whole new way of life to make the world vegan, we would be caring for ourselves and one another rather than chowing down on fast food muck.

emzy1985
Dec 19th, 2008, 04:19 PM
Oh I dunno! Imagine just walking down the street and you could just pop into McVegan lol! ;):D

I agree with you though Cobweb. I have often discussed with people such as Roxy that I don't want to die until animal liberation is achieved.

whalespace
Dec 19th, 2008, 05:46 PM
Oooh. You mean "cooperation.":D

Not me.
To integrate a group [vegans for example] would involve creating an environment in which that group could function happily without causing 'damage' to previously resident groups.
To co-operate a group would involve jointly controlling that group.

sandra
Dec 19th, 2008, 11:41 PM
I don't understand why any vegan would think it's 'a nice idea but just a dream' :eek:. We might aswell all give up now, eh? :mad:.


My sentiments exactly Cobweb!

The world will be vegan one day...............probably in the distant future......... but one day! :)

cobweb
Dec 19th, 2008, 11:42 PM
i honestly believe there is NO other way forward, Sand.

BlackCats
Dec 19th, 2008, 11:52 PM
I don't understand why any vegan would think it's 'a nice idea but just a dream' :eek:. We might aswell all give up now, eh? :mad:.

I think it will happen one day but not in my lifetime (but I'm happy to be proven wrong.):) Vegans are such a small percentage at the moment but that's why I think information is the key so forums like this one are so helpful. I think the internet will play a big part in it.

I honestly cannot imagine the world being vegan though, human beings have to evolve a great deal before that happens.

cobweb
Dec 19th, 2008, 11:58 PM
i don't think it will start becoming widespread due to human evolution, necessarily, but more because it's the only sustainable way forward.

i have a weird feeling, however, that this 'credit crunch' and worries about oil, etc, are the beginning of a possible next stage of human evolution.