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Nyx
Jan 5th, 2009, 10:38 PM
I was wondering if there are any of you out there who have stopped buying certain vegan brands of facial/body care products because of their toxic ingredients.

I am big on make-up and have found that most vegan make-up is not environmentally friendly. Even beauty without cruelty has nasty stuff in it. I bought a hand cream from the company "Alba" (all vegan company) and there are Parabens in it! Same with "kiss my face". I just don't get it. I mean I know some ingredients are not completely proven to cause problems but parabens have been! :(

I've also noticed a lot of vegans promote PVC/pleather and fauz fur. IT IS SO TOXIC! I know they think it is the better option in order to convert people but if you love animals, I don't see why you want to hurt the planet which is their (and our) home! Am I the only one who feels this way? I really don't mean to offend anyone here, so I'm sorry if I did.:undecided:

cobweb
Jan 5th, 2009, 10:42 PM
what do you use for footwear then, as i haven't found a completely non toxic but weatherproof solution for that?

horselesspaul
Jan 6th, 2009, 01:03 AM
It's all a trade off.
Plastic products can last a long time. Just use less of them and don't take their use for granted. The planet will cope. The non-human animals will cope. We may not, but then we may not deserve to.
If hemp is our only option then kill me now.

Nyx
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:34 PM
cobweb: sadly nothing.

Horselesspaul: I know. It still doesn't seem to answer my question as to why these companies choose to use this stuff over healthier alternatives. I guess I just need to relax? I don't know.

horselesspaul
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:46 PM
Sorry, Nyx. I didn't mean my slightly flippant comment for you but rather for general consumption, I hope it didn't sound too patronising.
As for the use of parabens:
There are cost factors for these companies and they would point to a history of use without harm and the lack of an alternative, since natural anti-fungal and anti-bacterial substances often have allergenic properties and lack efficiency and longevity. The products that contain them are ones that need their function.
The case against is fairly moot at the moment.

Relaxing is good, but scepticism is good also.
x

Nyx
Jan 8th, 2009, 04:07 PM
Hmmm I suppose you're right. I know it's hard for them financially. I still feel weary about buying the stuff though :S

Stu
Jan 8th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Hiya Nyx.


I mean I know some ingredients are not completely proven to cause problems but parabens have been! :(

Can you show me the proof of which you speak?
As far as I can tell, the evidence suggests that parabens are effectively non-toxic. I've tried to find evidence which suggests we should be concerned, and I failed.

cobweb
Jan 8th, 2009, 06:15 PM
pretty much anything can be toxic though, really, especially 'natural' ingredients.

kriz
Jan 8th, 2009, 07:09 PM
www.aubrey-organics.com This is a company which does not use parabens in their products. As far as I know Aubrey and Dr. Hauschka www.drhauschka.com are the only brands that use only natural ingredients. My only problem with them is the price - when you have to have to empty your savings just to buy a moisturizer there's a problem.

twinkle
Jan 8th, 2009, 07:19 PM
Although Dr. Hauschka don't test on animals I'm pretty sure most of their products I've seen have had animal ingredients in.

kriz
Jan 8th, 2009, 07:26 PM
I've also noticed a lot of vegans promote PVC/pleather and fauz fur. IT IS SO TOXIC! I know they think it is the better option in order to convert people but if you love animals, I don't see why you want to hurt the planet which is their (and our) home! Am I the only one who feels this way? I really don't mean to offend anyone here, so I'm sorry if I did.:undecided:

My personal solution on this one is too simply buy less shoes, and when I buy a pair I try to go for quality. Earth Shoes have some decent quality vegan shoes.
I also buy second hand clothing and I sell my own (to vintage stores) when I'm tired of my wardrobe selection. They only give me a few $ per item, but it helps. Luckily, second hand clothing is a pretty hip now and you can find really cute everyday fashion (and not only some weird vintage grandma dresses that you'll never wear or stinky t-shirts).:)

kriz
Jan 8th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Although Dr. Hauschka don't test on animals I'm pretty sure most of their products I've seen have had animal ingredients in.

It's not a vegan company, but I think they have many products that are vegan, though.

twinkle
Jan 8th, 2009, 07:38 PM
It's not a vegan company, but I think they have many products that are vegan, though.

Ah, I'll have to look at a few more things then. I picked a few things off the shelf and they all seemed to have lanolin and beeswax in so I got discouraged. Will give them another look :)

harpy
Jan 8th, 2009, 10:06 PM
Dr Hauschka do/did have some vegan stuff because a friend bought me some last Christmas and I checked it out, I can't remember how now. (I then took it back to Fresh & Wild anyway and swapped it for edibles because new products often make my skin erupt, but that's another story! :o)

Nyx
Jan 9th, 2009, 03:42 AM
Stu:

http://www.naturalnews.com/022207.html

http://www.health-report.co.uk/parabens.htm

Granted it's off the internet, but my main concern is that the selling point of environmentally friendly cleaning products and the like is that they contain no parabens. It's also the selling point of certain cosmetics (I think zuzu luxe is one but not sure). I have also heard mention on a number occasions that parabens are the chemicals contributing to the decline in both human and fish sperm quality and quantity which is causing some fish, frogs and other creatures to actually lose their male species.

This is happening mainly because people are using products with paraben and flushing them down the drain and into the waterways.

Mahk
Jan 9th, 2009, 05:15 AM
I mean I know some ingredients are not completely proven to cause problems but parabens have been! :(

I disagree. I can only find one 2004 study that basically says "We now have such sophisticated measuring devices that we can actually now measure minute quantities of paraben (metabolites, actually?) that are absorbed through skin creams and other cosmetics. Only now are we able to determine if any accumulation of them might be a body burden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_burden#cite_note-1) that potentially could be harmful, not that we are stating there is evidence for that".

Thats how I read it, but instead of paraphrasing it, here (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14745841?dopt=Abstract) it is:

"These studies demonstrate that parabens can be found intact in the human breast and this should open the way technically for more detailed information to be obtained on body burdens of parabens and in particular whether body burdens are different in cancer from those in normal tissues"

This doesn't prove they are harmful, many if not all compounds you apply to the skin are partly absorbed, that doesn't prove they harm you though, right? All this paper is saying is we now could test for that if we wanted too and I don't know of any scientists who then said "Yes, we think it could be a problem. Let's test it."


As far as I can tell, the evidence suggests that parabens are effectively non-toxic. I've tried to find evidence which suggests we should be concerned, and I failed.

Same here Stu. I wouldn't trust anything from a blog, forum entry, cosmetic manufacturers with an agenda, or naturalnews "magazine", which is written by laypeople and provides no corroborative evidence for their claims by way of links or specific citations which then can be scrutinized independently by the reader.

More from the FDA (http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/cos-para.html):

A study published in 2004 (Darbre, in the Journal of Applied Toxicology) detected parabens in breast tumors. The study also discussed this information in the context of the weak estrogen-like properties of parabens and the influence of estrogen on breast cancer. However, the study left several questions unanswered. For example, the study did not show that parabens cause cancer, or that they are harmful in any way, and the study did not look at possible paraben levels in normal tissue.

FDA is aware that estrogenic activity in the body is associated with certain forms of breast cancer. Although parabens can act similarly to estrogen, they have been shown to have much less estrogenic activity than the body’s naturally occurring estrogen. For example, a 1998 study (Routledge et al., in Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology) found that the most potent paraben tested in the study, butylparaben, showed from 10,000- to 100,000-fold less activity than naturally occurring estradiol (a form of estrogen). Further, parabens are used at very low levels in cosmetics. In a review of the estrogenic activity of parabens, (Golden et al., in Critical Reviews in Toxicology, 2005) the author concluded that based on maximum daily exposure estimates, it was implausible that parabens could increase the risk associated with exposure to estrogenic chemicals.

FDA believes that at the present time there is no reason for consumers to be concerned about the use of cosmetics containing parabens.

cobweb
Jan 9th, 2009, 08:43 AM
this is only my opinion and i really don't mean to offend, but i think there's a bit of a racket going on (i call it green consumerism, and i have certainly fallen for it a few times :rolleyes:)
people are encouraged to spend a lot more money on green/vegan/non-toxic stuff when sometimes it would be much better, and much simpler, and much cheaper, to simply do without!.
Or, buy the less specialist stuff and use a tiny amount.
I just wondered, if you feel this strongly, why you'd want to use any of these products, rather than just do without? :confused:.

Marrers
Jan 9th, 2009, 10:27 AM
I was wondering if there are any of you out there who have stopped buying certain vegan brands of facial/body care products because of their toxic ingredients.
I am more likely to choose products which do not contain parabans because it is one of those things (like mobile phones) that you hear so many rumours about. Although there is apparently no proof of harm I reckon why increase my risk if I can avoid it. (eta If there is no alternative I'll use stuff with parabans in without problem though, I just avoid buying it if I can.)

I have almost stopped shopping at Lush because of their use of parabans and sls (I have to avoid sls in hair products as it makes my scalp flakey).

Stu
Jan 9th, 2009, 03:41 PM
Stu:

http://www.naturalnews.com/022207.html

http://www.health-report.co.uk/parabens.htm

Granted it's off the internet, but my main concern is that the selling point of environmentally friendly cleaning products and the like is that they contain no parabens. It's also the selling point of certain cosmetics (I think zuzu luxe is one but not sure). I have also heard mention on a number occasions that parabens are the chemicals contributing to the decline in both human and fish sperm quality and quantity which is causing some fish, frogs and other creatures to actually lose their male species.

This is happening mainly because people are using products with paraben and flushing them down the drain and into the waterways.


Sorry to be a terrible pedant Nyx, but those articles do not contain any proof. In fact, they don't even contain any evidence! Actually, if anything, they lend weight to my point: that there is nothing to suggest that parabens cause any harm at all. It strikes me as nothing more than a silly myth that has been circulated by people who haven't actually bothered to look into it (that isn't meant as a dig at you, by the way!).

Risker
Jan 9th, 2009, 04:20 PM
Natural news should change it's name to luddite news.

Nyx
Jan 9th, 2009, 05:16 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I'm not insulted at all. I'm just scared you know? I think my main issue is not so much what I'm putting on my body in minute amounts but rather the large amount (from everyone) going into the waters. I have this very strong love of the oceans and I'm just so paranoid that I'm not doing the right thing :S

Sorry for going on about this. Stu, Marhk, I know internet sources are unreliable (well most) and I know there is no evidence either way on parabens as of yet. Thank you for the info too by the way :)

Marrers I know what you mean, that's why I try to stay away from all that stuff.

I think a lot of it comes down to me trying to do the best I can but there is also some OCD and anxiety stuff going on with me that I know contributes greatly to these questions on toxicity.

If anyone finds out anymore info (whether good or bad) on either parabens, SLS' or any other potentially toxic chemicals, please let me know.

Thanks again everyone!

Oh and Cobweb, to answer your question it's kind of hard in this society to live without shampoo :P

cobweb
Jan 9th, 2009, 06:02 PM
well quite a lot of people swear by not using shampoo, Nyx - though i have to say i'm not one of them :cool:.

I have recently bought an 'e cloth' type body mitt for the shower, it means you can wash without using soap or shower gel (i just tend to use a very small amount). I also use bar shampoo as i find it cleans my hair well and there's no packaging to worry about. As for other things like washing my face and hands, or wiping down surfaces, i mainly use very hot water and a cloth, or sometimes juice from a lemon.

I am a bit paranoid about polluting the earth, too, i know where you are coming from, that's one reason i feel uneasy about non-essential items like make-up, which i hardly ever use :undecided:.

rastafairyem
Nov 5th, 2010, 10:35 AM
I also worry about products to use on the skin that have chemicals - I was surprised to see that Lush have quite a lot of nasties in their products despite their products being registered with the Vegan Society.

I took this as inspiration and started my own company making all natural products - It's so much nicer to be in control of what goes on your skin - I enjoy using my own products as I know exactly what goes into them - making your own cosmetics is a great way round all those chemicals.

I realised that not everyone has time to make their own natural solutions so decided to provide them, lots of mineral make up I have looked into do seem to have some chemical content.

I found my own supplier of minerals and micas to make the products, they are great to use in their own natural state without adding anything to them for a glitzy night out, I wore neat silver and pearlescent white mica makeup for my wedding. I hope to have developed some similar products for my website soon, should be fun! :)

Rastafairyem

www.greenspiritbazaar.co.uk

Risker
Nov 5th, 2010, 03:55 PM
I also worry about products to use on the skin that have chemicals - I was surprised to see that Lush have quite a lot of nasties in their products despite their products being registered with the Vegan Society.

I don't quite follow your logic there, why does being registered with the vegan society mean they would use any less chemicals?

f2097
Nov 8th, 2010, 11:08 PM
I have almost stopped shopping at Lush because of their use of parabans and sls (I have to avoid sls in hair products as it makes my scalp flakey).

We use SLS and parabens in some of our products because we feel they are the safest and best ingredients to use.

Any product with water content will require a preservative of some sort (and will have one in even if its not written on the label!!), with every lush product that uses SLS or parabens there is an alternative product which does not. Many lush products are 100% natural and use no preservatives or sufactants at all... Most have no packaging and all of them use fresh, real ingredients.

There is a page on the website about parabens which can explain why we use them better than I can:

Parabens:
http://www.lush.co.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=lush.lushopedia.php&action=showIngredient&ingredientId=4866

SLS:
http://www.lush.co.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=lush.lushopedia.php&action=showIngredient&ingredientId=4862