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Zero
Jan 9th, 2009, 01:06 AM
The "boffins" over at PeTA are still at it. Convinced that the best way to promote veganism is not to educate people but to come up with more wacky schemes to make us vegans look crazy......

Sure thats gonna work. :rolleyes:

Not only do they generally waste the money their members give to them on stupid stunts that are at times even sexist (such as the lettuce leaf girls thing).

Now they feel that they should buy stocks in as many meat using companies as possible in order to "have a say" at the board meetings. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that just because you have a say doesn't mean anyone is going to listen, nor will the other share holders allow you to get a majority share in the company, lets face it; the people on those board generally have a vested interest in the meat industry.

Therefore PeTA are doing nothing more than making money in the form of dividends on those shares - Is that vegan???


http://planetsave.com/blog/2008/12/07/in-poor-economy-peta-buying-stock-in-meat-heavy-restaurants/

Quantum Mechanic
Jan 9th, 2009, 05:08 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like with the money it takes to invest these stocks you could start a vegan/vegetarian franchise...

Zero
Jan 9th, 2009, 09:07 AM
^ Totally.

Roxy
Jan 9th, 2009, 09:51 AM
Shareholder activism. It's an interesting concept. I don't see how it's wacky though.

Zero
Jan 9th, 2009, 10:32 AM
It's wacky because it doesn't work. They are not going to make any useful changes through this. Any changes that would get implemented would be entirely welfarist in the sense "we will kill the animals more nicely".

These corporations are far more powerful than PeTA and will never let them make any (or be in a postions to make) decisions that take away from the profits they reap from the meat industry.

If this time money and effort was put into promoting veganism and educating people it would be so much more effective. PeTA are actually good at making videos and educational materials when they stick to the facts, I have to give them that, but they seem to keep moving away from the facts and doing stuff like this, I have to wonder what the future holds for them.

Ruby Rose
Jan 9th, 2009, 10:44 AM
It's such a bizarre concept - surely they must have thought it through, mustn't they? To me it would seem obvious that owning any small share in a company's stock entitles you only to attend the shareholders' meeting - with perhaps hundreds or even thousands of other shareholders. Even if at such a meeting you were able to get an item onto the agenda - and in my experience it is not the shareholders who set the agenda - the most you could expect would be a comment somewhere in the company minutes that "[Peta rep] raised an objection to x company practice which was noted".

If the company is profitable, Peta would get a share of the profits - perhaps that's their PR angle - that in the future they hope to be able to say that these companies are in part inadvertantly funding the work of Peta. A bit shaky. And if the company is not profitable, as shareholders, Peta will be responsible for propping up the company finance. How good is that going to look for their PR - the money they raise from animal welfare activists going to support the profitability of the meat industry.

Am I missing something really obvious here - 'cos I really can't see what's in it for Peta.

Buddha Belly
Jan 9th, 2009, 02:47 PM
It's a interesting idea. Some people have done it in the UK for the anti Tesco lobby. They had a few mins on tv then forgotten.
Whoever it is who will stand up in a conferance and p**s off EVERY person in that room is very brave/ stupid. PETA have a habit of dumbass stunts for publicity. I lodged a complaint about them once for them to note my disgust. They had started to give out free vouchers for KFC in Canada after the KFC there started a vegan meal thing. I asked why they were advising people to financialy support KFC.
Subject: RE:
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:14:31 -0400
From: info@peta.org.uk
To: rosswatkins101@hotmail.com

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Dear Ross,

Thank you for contacting PETA about our Kentucky Fried Cruelty campaign and our events and coupons for the new faux-chicken sandwich available at the majority of Canadian KFCs (http://www.KentuckyFriedCruelty.com/f-kfc_canada_coupon.asp (http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/f-kfc_canada_coupon.asp)).

Ideally, we would like to eliminate chicken flesh from all menus, but we must be realistic and willing to take small steps. Although we have come to an agreement with many KFCs in Canada after five years of campaigning—including conducting undercover investigations at KFC suppliers and holding more than 12,000 demonstrations around the world—the campaign is not going away any time soon. In fact, it will only get stronger.

We are promoting the Classic Vegetarian Sandwich that has been added to the menu at many KFCs in Canada because millions of Canadians eat at KFC every week, and we want them to choose a vegetarian option instead of meat-based products. Please know that our coupons are valid only for the Classic Vegetarian Sandwich—customers cannot use the coupons to purchase meat-based menu items.

Like you, PETA would like to see fast-food restaurants stop serving animal-based products entirely, but such progress never will be made if we don't encourage first attempts. PETA supports any action that will help animals, and we won't pass up the chance to make improvements for animals simply because they might not be all that we are ultimately striving for.

The majority of people eat at fast-food restaurants, so making a faux-chicken sandwich accessible to them is crucial. We want to show people that vegetarianism is easy and mainstream. These KFCs in Canada still have a long way to go, but they have taken an important step. To us, disparaging the Classic Vegetarian Sandwich would be extremely counterproductive. If these stores' vegetarian option fails, the chances that other fast-food chains will introduce a similar item are slim.

Because billions of animals are suffering in the food, clothing, experimentation, and entertainment industries each year, we must take immediate action to try to alleviate some of their suffering. This is why we campaign against companies like KFC for improved animal welfare standards while also vigorously promoting a vegan diet as the best way to help animals.

By waging campaigns that focus on improving animal welfare, we will be able to bring about animal liberation at a more rapid pace. When an abusive system is pervasive in society, people always try to mitigate the victims' suffering before they are able to end the system entirely. For example, in the 1800s, people realized that all citizens—regardless of their skin color—deserved rights, so slaves were freed. Despite this, blacks were still segregated from whites through the 'separate but equal' rule, which was eventually recognized as unjust and ended.

Animal rights will inevitably take the same course. By pushing people to recognize that animals—at the very least—deserve better treatment, we're awakening people to the idea that animals are not simply machines to be abused at will. More humane systems will be developed, and eventually, when people realize that 'humane slaughter' is an oxymoron, animals will be liberated.

After this latest victory, new volunteers are flooding PETA's offices with requests to participate in our Kentucky Fried Cruelty campaign. Please rest assured that our campaign will continue in the U.S. and around the world. We encourage Canadian activists to visit http://www.GoVeg.com/getactive.asp (http://www.goveg.com/getactive.asp) to learn about ways to promote vegetarianism in their communities.

For more information about this victory and to ask KFC to improve conditions for all the chickens who are killed for its buckets, please go to http://blog.PETA.org/archives/2008/06/historic_victor_1.php (http://blog.peta.org/archives/2008/06/historic_victor_1.php) and http://getactive.PETA.org/campaign/canada_kfc_victory (http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/canada_kfc_victory).

Please also visit http://www.KentuckyFriedCruelty.com (http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/) for campaign updates and to learn how you can help, including signing up for e-mail updates, registering for our KFC Activist Network, and making a donation in support of our Kentucky Fried Cruelty campaign.

Thanks again for contacting us and for your concern for animals.

Sincerely,


Rob Markham
Administrator
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

Tel: +44 (0) 207 3579229 ext. 221
Fax: +44 (0) 207 357 0901
Email: RobM@peta.org.uk (RobM@peta.org.uk)
Address: P.O. Box 36668, London, SE1 1WA
Website: PETA.org.uk (http://www.peta.org.uk/)

I understand the point they are trying to make, but appeasement or slow change does not work. KFC advertised the fact PETA were supporting their menu. To some this would let them think PETA were i favour of all their range. For PETA to do this after, i quote:
five years of campaigning—including conducting undercover investigations at KFC suppliers and holding more than 12,000 demonstrations around the world—the campaign is not going away any time soon. In fact, it will only get stronger.

Smacks of the usual PETA hypocracy.

I highlighted some of the more....unusual bits.


Rant over.

Zero
Jan 9th, 2009, 03:22 PM
Yes indeed, improving "welfare" standards and phrases such as "humane slaughter" will only serve to make meat eaters more comfortable with their ignorant food choices.

Look at the supposed "victory" with KFC, it turns out that it is actually more efficient and profitable to kill chickens using CAK (controlled atomosphere killing) rather than older methods. Don't get me wrong it's good that these beings wont suffer as much but it's really not what we are after is it? Meat eaters will now consider KFC a more ethical choice, this does not strengthen the Animal Rights position indeed it does quite the opposite.

They make reference to the slavery of Africans, which is an extremely reasonable comparison until you look at the what Peta are campaigning for.

The activists against slavery were abolitionists, they did not just campaign for better treatment, they campaigned for freedom and the complete abolition of human slavery.

If we are serious about what we want we as a movement should be upfront about it from the outset in my opinion.

Buddha Belly
Jan 9th, 2009, 03:47 PM
They make reference to the slavery of Africans, which is an extremely reasonable comparison until you look at the what Peta are campaigning for.

The activists against slavery were abolitionists, they did not just campaign for better treatment, they campaigned for freedom and the complete abolition of human slavery.

If we are serious about what we want we as a movement should be upfront about it from the outset in my opinion.[/quote]

Yes, i loved the comparrison too.

VeganMonkey
Jan 9th, 2009, 04:14 PM
Does anyone here actually support PETA? (by donations or giving your time I mean). I don't know that much about them but everything I hear makes me think that they're contributing to the majority of the public's perception that animal rights folk are irrational and extreme. As a side issue, their campaign here in the UK with Heather Mills was very badly judged if you ask me. I don't particularly have anything against her but she's seen as such a crackpot and all round bad guy by so many people, is making her a face of veganism really helpful?! :rolleyes:

Quantum Mechanic
Jan 9th, 2009, 04:28 PM
Does anyone here actually support PETA? (by donations or giving your time I mean). I don't know that much about them but everything I hear makes me think that they're contributing to the majority of the public's perception that animal rights folk are irrational and extreme. As a side issue, their campaign here in the UK with Heather Mills was very badly judged if you ask me. I don't particularly have anything against her but she's seen as such a crackpot and all round bad guy by so many people, is making her a face of veganism really helpful?! :rolleyes:

Their recent bill boards in the US didn't gain them any brownie points with the autistic community...

VeganMonkey
Jan 9th, 2009, 04:42 PM
Hmm, suggesting autism is down to the parent for giving their child cow's milk is likely only to create hostility. I see their tactics but I'm not sure that all publicity is good publicity in their case....

Nyx
Jan 9th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Maybe PETA has always been part of the meat industry undercover.....hehe.

Buddha Belly
Jan 9th, 2009, 07:20 PM
Their recent bill boards in the US didn't gain them any brownie points with the autistic community...


What did they say?

Rakey
Jan 9th, 2009, 07:41 PM
Oh dear.....I see PETA as useful for some things, but the wacko stunts are not one of them....

I'm never donating to them...ever

Guate_Vegan
Jan 11th, 2009, 11:27 PM
I wonder how they get so much money. But overall, they seem do to a lot more than most animal rights groups in my opinion, as crazy as they might be.

In fact, I became vegan after encountering their sites when I was 14, I had been a vegetarian for four years before that, and even though I don't support them in any way, I still believe that they help a lot.

Zero
Jan 11th, 2009, 11:37 PM
It was a Peta video that helped convince me to go vegan, as I said some of the stuff they do is good, but that doesn't excuse the horrible things they do, their 85% kill ratio of the animals they take in, the stock in meat companies, the sexist campaigns, giving awards to slaughterhouse designers and KFC, condoning the killing of chickens via the use of Controlled Atmosphere Killing...... the list goes on, these things a are detriment to what we are trying to achieve.

If that wasted time, energy and money was refocused, think how much more Peta could be.

Sarabi
Jan 14th, 2009, 04:14 AM
I wonder how they get so much money. But overall, they seem do to a lot more than most animal rights groups in my opinion, as crazy as they might be.

In fact, I became vegan after encountering their sites when I was 14, I had been a vegetarian for four years before that, and even though I don't support them in any way, I still believe that they help a lot.
They do a lot more because they are ruthless in their tactics. That doesn't make them better. Of course they are working for something good. There is no doubt about that. But what about plantation owners who ran their plantations with slaves and "did a lot more" than other farms - for the economy, for "society," etc? It's no justification. If PETA were dismantled for its BS tactics, it would be quickly replaced by some other animal rights organization, hopefully a better one, which would receive all the money that was formerly going to PETA. And that would be wonderful.

Just a dream, alas. :rolleyes:

Roxy
Jan 14th, 2009, 04:23 AM
Does anyone here actually support PETA? (by donations or giving your time I mean).

I do. I don't donate to them financially. I did however, work very hard on the KFC Canada campaign. I also regularly order free leaflets and stickers from PETA which I use as outreach tools in my day to day life.

I sit on the Board of Directors of an AR group here in Vancouver and one of my co-directors did an internship with PETA Asia-Pacific last year. She came back with some wonderful, successful campaigning ideas which have proved to be very valuable to us.

Sarabi
Jan 14th, 2009, 04:32 AM
Roxy, why???

I asked for some free fliers from PETA, and they sent me boxes of junk. Most of the stickers I cannot use because they sound absurd. I left some of that stuff on the common room table, and the first thing that happened was that a meat-eater asked me if I would eat meat if meat were "green" because of the "meat's not green" leaflet. Some other people read the stuff and said they were fascinated or gave up fish (pescetarian friend). But I have to wonder whether it's not turning away as many people as its attracting.

I do, however, love the sticker I have on my backpack with a chicken saying, "Jesus loves me, too." The "we're not nuggets" poster is cute and I love it for myself, but in terms of actual effectiveness for meat-eaters, I dunno. I'm afraid to put any of these things up, so I just have them rotting in a box on my desk.

snivelingchild
Jan 14th, 2009, 04:46 AM
their 85% kill ratio of the animals they take in
That's not much higher than most shelters, and not surprising seeing as how they're not a rescue organization.

I can't blame people for trying to take baby steps rather than an all or nothing approach.

Roxy
Jan 14th, 2009, 07:11 AM
Roxy, why???



Why what? I don't really understand what part of my post that you're asking about.

Zero
Jan 14th, 2009, 08:41 AM
I can't blame people for trying to take baby steps rather than an all or nothing approach.

Baby steps are fine, but when the means don't match the ends in the first place we will never get there.

Roxy
Jan 14th, 2009, 08:55 AM
I can't blame people for trying to take baby steps rather than an all or nothing approach.

I can't blame them either. The world isn't going to go vegan anytime soon.

Zero
Jan 14th, 2009, 10:25 AM
That's not much higher than most shelters, and not surprising seeing as how they're not a rescue organization.


A shelter I did some volunteer work at in Colorado was considered to have a high kill ratio and it was 30%.

Nathan Winograd has consistently shown that by just doing a little more work and being more active within the community you can get the save rate near or in excess of 90%.

http://nathanwinograd.blogspot.com/2008/02/look-at-shelter-save-rates.html

Peta are not an Animal Rescue organization? They are according to their "about" page on their website: http://www.peta.org/about/

Edit:
Also in 2006 their kill rate was 97.4% of the animals they took in. They euthanized around 3,000 animals and found homes for 8 dogs, 2 cats and 2 other companion animals, this is unacceptable.