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JC
Feb 13th, 2009, 07:49 PM
I've recently gone (mostly) raw, and i have no idea if this is connected, but i can only assume it is because this all started at the same time as i lay off the cooked food. I'm not knocking raw veganism, because it's the best thing that's happened to me in a long time, but it's as if i've suddenly because completely devoid of energy. I'm have to force myself not to go to bed at 7pm, and stay up until about 9 or 10pm because i'm so tired. Then i'll wake up around 3am, want to get up then, but i make myself sleep for a few more hours. So despite getting at least 8 or 9 hours sleep a night, i'm exhausted come lunchtime. I'm not doing anything strenuous, i'm a student! I can't even face going to the cinema, let alone going out, and my friends are starting to comment on how i never go out anymore, but i'm just so exhausted i literally can't. Has anyone else had problems with this? I am missing something essential from my diet that i hadn't thought about? On an average day, i'm having soaked oat groats for breakfast, nakd bar for lunch, salad for dinner, then i snack on fresh and dried fruit, and nuts, so i'm never hungry. Is it something worth going to the doctors for? I'm supposed to give blood on wednesday, but i don't want to make matters worse... :(

missbettie
Feb 13th, 2009, 08:30 PM
well maybe you should go to bed at 7pm...its probably your body's way of telling you it needs to rest. and if you wake up in the middle of the night do something like read...maybe its detox? or maybe you aren't getting enough calories or water?

DiaShel
Feb 14th, 2009, 02:46 PM
I had a similar experience when going raw for a month and it didn't get better. I just could focus I was so exhausted and would zone out at work. It was awful, so I stopped.

Kitteh
Feb 14th, 2009, 11:57 PM
I have to agree that I am feeling a bit tired. But I also had an anaesthetic the other week so I wasn't sure if it was that.

I remember feeling a bit tired when I went raw in November 2007, I think I asked about it on another forum, I'll see if I can find the thread and what ppl said. I recall them talking about food combining.

Kitteh
Feb 15th, 2009, 08:44 PM
I can't find the advice I was given but I was reading Dr Sommer's website this morning where he mentioned the Boutenko's tips on avoiding mistakes on raw. I googled this and found an article http://www.rawfoodhowto.com/four-raw-food-diet-mistakes.cfm the main reason for being tired there is too many fats ie. avocados, nuts, oils. And dried fruits because they can upset digestion.

I think after I was told about this in 07 I tried going high raw, low fat (like 80/10/10) but then I fainted for the first time ever and pretty much went back to cooked foods.

JC
Feb 15th, 2009, 10:52 PM
Thanks Kitteh, that's really useful! I think i'll try to lay off the nuts and dried fruits for a while, and see if that improves anything :)

Kitteh
Feb 15th, 2009, 10:54 PM
I made raw cherry tarts on Saturday, the base has hazelnuts in it and the filling has cahews in it, I ate 2 on Saturday and one on Sunday. Plus I made raw crackers which have flax, chia and sesame seeds in them. I felt so tired on Saturday night and exhausted from about midday yestday :(

Quantum Mechanic
Feb 17th, 2009, 10:40 AM
If you are feeling run down or some such, and suspect it may be the diet (or how you are doing if if that's what you think it is), then what about keeping tabs on what you eat in a day and what's in it nutritionally? Sounds like a bit of work, but maybe there's a vitamin or something that isn't well represented in what you're currently eating. To check also for enough calories, too, would be a good idea.

Gorilla
Feb 17th, 2009, 03:13 PM
are you eating enough iron?

JC
Feb 17th, 2009, 06:11 PM
I think so... I take a kelp tablet every day as a back up, so i'm sure that's not the problem. But i've decided now that i'm going to have some cooked food in my diet - i don't have the equipment to do raw veganism properly, and i can't survive on salad and nakd bars all the time! I'm still going to have 2 raw meals a day - breakfast can be made raw so easily, and i can have a salad for lunch or dinner, then for the other meal i'm going to have something more substantial, with tofu or tempeh. That's the new plan anyway!

Cherry
Feb 17th, 2009, 06:35 PM
I think that's a good plan til you get yourself sorted. I'd have a nakd bar AFTER my lunch, and a salad WITH my dinner! :D I'm surprised you haven't been ravenously hungry!

Kitteh
Feb 17th, 2009, 08:30 PM
If you are feeling run down or some such, and suspect it may be the diet (or how you are doing if if that's what you think it is), then what about keeping tabs on what you eat in a day and what's in it nutritionally? Sounds like a bit of work, but maybe there's a vitamin or something that isn't well represented in what you're currently eating. To check also for enough calories, too, would be a good idea.

I use an online program called Calorie King and I know I am getting enough calories (well according to what the program says) and it also shows nutrients but I don't look at those stats, so will go have a look now :)


are you eating enough iron?

I am still taking all my vitamins and supplements, I take Floradix liquid twice a day, so I hope I am absorbing it. And I eat a big bunch of baby spinach daily too.

JC, I think your plan sounds great, you really have to do what's good for you. It's been raining and cold the past week here and I'm starting to want cooked food so I don't know if I can keep up high raw through autumn/winter.

Gorilla
Feb 18th, 2009, 12:01 PM
I am still taking all my vitamins and supplements, I take Floradix liquid twice a day, so I hope I am absorbing it. And I eat a big bunch of baby spinach daily too.

just FYI spinach is not a good source of iron because it contains high levels of oxalate, making the iron unavailable to the human body. also try to eat iron and calcium-rich foods separately to increase absorption potential.

hope you both feel better soon :)

DiaShel
Feb 18th, 2009, 12:04 PM
just FYI spinach is not a good source of iron because it contains high levels of oxalate, making the iron unavailable to the human body. also try to eat iron and calcium-rich foods separately to increase absorption potential.


nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.I love spinach and eat tons of it and thought it was good for my low iron levels. You've crushed all my hopes Gorilla. :sad:

Gorilla
Feb 18th, 2009, 01:13 PM
sorry but don't shoot the messenger :p

Zero
Feb 18th, 2009, 01:33 PM
Good sources of iron that are low oxalate are dark grapes, avocado, most "herb greens" like basil, corriander etc, coconut, asparagus, peppers (bell, banana, etc), tomatoes, bananas, broccoli.

You can check out www.nutritiondata.com (http://www.nutritiondata.com) for nutrient contents :)

Prawnil
Feb 18th, 2009, 02:27 PM
http://www.lazylaces.com/pics/center_fatherted.jpg

Oxalic acid does not influence nonhaem iron absorption in humans: a comparison of kale and spinach meals (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17440529?ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) 2008, European Journal of Clinical Nutrition
"CONCLUSION: Potassium oxalate did not influence iron absorption in humans from a kale meal and our findings strongly suggest that OA[Oxalic Acid] in fruits and vegetables is of minor relevance in iron nutrition."

In practice perhaps not. Spinach's high vitamin C content is an iron-availability promoter in contrast - but who knows how their influences interact during digestion.
Elsewhere,
"Spinach ranks high among leafy vegetables in total iron content but has ofen been regarded as a poor source of dietary iron because of low availability. Some studies do support that view ... Layrisse et al...1.7% ... Moore and Dubach...1.3% ... <10%. Other studies have demonstrated somewhat better absorption of iron from spinach. Ruegamer et al. ...10-20%. Pye and Mcloed...26%[raw]...31%[cooked]. McMillan and Johson reported ... 13%.
... The depressant effects of oxalate on calcium utilization might lead one to suspect similar effects on iron absorption, but close examination of the literature does not completely justify this conclusion. ... Our data indicate that the high oxalate content of spinach does not result in poor availability of iron ..." D R van Campen & R M Welch, but old (1980).

Still,
"Spinach was digested in vitro...with and without the addition of supplemental ascorbic acid... cell cultures were used to determine iron bioavailability from the spinach mixtures. ... showed the supplemental ascorbic acid doubled bioavailability of iron from spinach. The data show fresh spinach is a poor source of iron" C J Rutzke, 2004. 'Bioavailability of iron from spinach using an in vitro/human Caco-2 cell bioassay model'
:question::question:

cedarblue
Feb 18th, 2009, 03:02 PM
just FYI spinach is not a good source of iron because it contains high levels of oxalate, making the iron unavailable to the human body.

is that both raw and cooked gorilla?

iron and vit c should be eaten together to maximise the absoption of both.

Gorilla
Feb 18th, 2009, 03:19 PM
^ i'm not sure if it makes a difference whether the spinach is raw or cooked, sorry.

tea and coffee inhibit iron absorption too but not a problem if you're raw i guess.

cedarblue
Feb 18th, 2009, 03:25 PM
that's interesting as spinach is always pushed as a good source of iron.

i guess the best way is to mix your dark greens - spinach, kale, savoy, pak/bok choi etc...

Prawnil
Feb 18th, 2009, 03:36 PM
("Index --------| Species--|Raw material-- | After Blanching--| After Cooking
Total oxalates- |Spinach-- |0.94 0.030--| 0.78 0.011 -- | 0.71 0.010
(g/100 g) "
G Jaworska, 2005. 'Nitrates, nitrites, and oxalates in products of spinach and New Zealand spinach: Effect of technological measures and storage time...' Food Chemistry.
Cooked=lowered oxalates. )

JC
Feb 18th, 2009, 04:07 PM
Spinach is expensive stuff too. I think i'll stick to more definate sources of iron in the future :D Oh, and i gave blood today and wasn't anaemic - hoorah!! Although i did nearly pass out haha

cedarblue
Feb 18th, 2009, 06:51 PM
thanks prawnil

Kitteh
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:09 AM
Good sources of iron that are low oxalate are dark grapes, avocado, most "herb greens" like basil, corriander etc, coconut, asparagus, peppers (bell, banana, etc), tomatoes, bananas, broccoli.

You can check out www.nutritiondata.com (http://www.nutritiondata.com) for nutrient contents :)

Avocado, check
Basil, check
Bananas, check
Tomatoes, check
Broccoli, check

Thanks, Zero & Prawnil for those studies :) And baby spinach isn't expensive here and I love it in my green smoothies so I will keep on eatin' it.

cedarblue
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:43 PM
here and I love it in my green smoothies so I will keep on eatin' it.


heh heh - me too!