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Sarabi
Feb 26th, 2009, 04:47 AM
Had a conversation with my Catholic vegetarian friend at breakfast yesterday about what to do for Lent. I told him, "You know what I'm gonna say." He just said he is going vegan for Lent. :D

sandra
Feb 26th, 2009, 08:07 AM
That's great Sarabi! :)

Let's hope this is the beginning of a new vegan life for him! :)

Hemlock
Feb 26th, 2009, 08:55 AM
Thats nice but it's a pity veganism is always seen as some kind of big sacrifice rather than something normal.

sandra
Feb 26th, 2009, 01:06 PM
It is a pity, but hopefully Sarabi's friend will now find out just how easy being vegan can be and spread the word! :)

Sarabi
Feb 26th, 2009, 02:01 PM
Thats nice but it's a pity veganism is always seen as some kind of big sacrifice rather than something normal.
But this is great! I wish I were Catholic so I could participate in Lent! Lent seems like a great way to develop self-discipline. And heck, veganism is a sacrifice, whether it's normal or not. It's sacrificing certain privileges, or certain indulgences. Something you want to hold on to. What's a pity is that we see sacrifice as something abnormal or undesirable. Only by giving up the things we want to hold on to can we cease wanting them.

horselesspaul
Feb 26th, 2009, 02:12 PM
And heck, veganism is a sacrifice, whether it's normal or not. It's sacrificing certain privileges, or certain indulgences.
Veganism is not a sacrifice. Eschewing torture and slavery of our fellow beings in favour of a healthy, balanced, ethical life can only be an embracement rather than a sacrifice.

seamus
Feb 26th, 2009, 02:21 PM
it is a sacrafice. a major one at that.

horselesspaul
Feb 26th, 2009, 02:25 PM
What are you sacrificing exactly?

1gentlemaorispirit
Feb 26th, 2009, 02:36 PM
But this is great! I wish I were Catholic so I could participate in Lent! Lent seems like a great way to develop self-discipline. And heck, veganism is a sacrifice, whether it's normal or not. It's sacrificing certain privileges, or certain indulgences. Something you want to hold on to. What's a pity is that we see sacrifice as something abnormal or undesirable. Only by giving up the things we want to hold on to can we cease wanting them.

Why is vegamism a sacrifice?:confused: Surely the killing of defenceless animals is a sacrifice, of their lives?! By being vegan we are helping to save these animals lives!!!

seamus
Feb 26th, 2009, 02:59 PM
its not the damned animal rights claptrap.
its THE SACRIFICE OF ROUTINE. OF WHAT YOURE USED TO.
of what the 'norm' of social interactions, the way in wich people are going to start treating you diffrently and so forth.

1gentlemaorispirit
Feb 26th, 2009, 03:18 PM
its not the damned animal rights claptrap.
its THE SACRIFICE OF ROUTINE. OF WHAT YOURE USED TO.
of what the 'norm' of social interactions, the way in wich people are going to start treating you diffrently and so forth.

As for animals rights, I'm talking about LIFE in general!

Like any religious event, you only get out of Lent what you put into it. It's a personal thing and any Christain can partake in it. The main thing is when you give up something for Lent, you do it from the heart, and so I believe the word sacrifice is the wrong terminology.

horselesspaul
Feb 26th, 2009, 03:27 PM
its not the damned animal rights claptrap.
its THE SACRIFICE OF ROUTINE. OF WHAT YOURE USED TO.
of what the 'norm' of social interactions, the way in wich people are going to start treating you diffrently and so forth.
No need to shout dude.
None of the things you mention are a sacrifice, merely changes. A sacrifice involves the deliberate refusal to do something despite its personal cost to you.

Gorilla
Feb 26th, 2009, 03:46 PM
sacrifice? arse!!!

http://bshistorian.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/father-jack1.jpg

horselesspaul
Feb 26th, 2009, 03:47 PM
Hahaha. I find Father Jack to be a great comfort, spiritually.

1gentlemaorispirit
Feb 26th, 2009, 03:57 PM
Father Ted is brilliant!!!:lol:

DarmokTheGreen
Feb 26th, 2009, 04:17 PM
Well, if anyone here decides to give up or sacrifice anything for Lent, let's hope it doesn't result in you seeing people as giant cigarettes, beer glasses or roller blades. :)

Shrapnel
Feb 26th, 2009, 05:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg-10vF5Xhs

=D

(I gave up alcohol for Lent last year, so I can totally relate =p).

rianaelf
Feb 26th, 2009, 05:34 PM
I have no idea what lent is except by the meaning,
^I lent my friend a Terry Pratchet book^ :confused:
and no way is being vegan a sacrifice in fact NOT being vegan is a sacrifice as it is in fact the sacrifice of innocent animals :sad:

Shrapnel
Feb 26th, 2009, 05:36 PM
Had a conversation with my Catholic vegetarian friend at breakfast yesterday about what to do for Lent. I told him, "You know what I'm gonna say." He just said he is going vegan for Lent. :D

I'm glad he's giving it a shot. And if he manages to go 40 days vegan, he might see it as something he can do permanently.

I can see veganism as a sacrifice from where he's coming from, or most people. When you're raised eating certain things, it feels like a sacrifice to eschew it (and there is some difficulty due to society, like checking labels, finding substitutes and dealibng with annoying omnis). Same way that I'm guessing Mormons don't view refraining from alcohol or coffee as a sacrifice, though other people might. At any rate, I'm just glad this guy's trying it :)

Shrapnel
Feb 26th, 2009, 05:43 PM
I have no idea what lent is except by the meaning,
^I lent my friend a Terry Pratchet book^ :confused:
and no way is being vegan a sacrifice in fact NOT being vegan is a sacrifice as it is in fact the sacrifice of innocent animals :sad:

Short version: Lent is the 40 days between Ash Wednesday (which was yesterday) and Easter. Catholics (and some other Christian denominations) celebrate it usually through sacrifice of some sort, either giving up something they enjoy, or taking up additional service. There's also a fast in place, where Catholics are supposed to eat only three meals a day, two small meals and one larger one (though there's dispensation for people who have dietary needs that make this impractical, like physically demanding work). The tradition comes from the story in the Bible where Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert. Additionally, Ash Wednesday, Holy Week (from the friday before Easter Sunday to Easter) and every Friday, Catholics are supposed to refrain from alcohol and meat (though fish is allowed. This was more due to politics of the middle ages than anything else). More strict rules also disallowed dairy on these days, as it was, like meat, viewed as a luxury item.

(disclaimer: not saying you have to believe any of this yourself, just that's the whole story of the tradition).

cedarblue
Feb 26th, 2009, 06:16 PM
sometimes taste can be a sacrifice. i don't eat certain things now because i'm vegan, but it's not because i didn't necessarily like the taste of those things - i did - and sometimes i still miss the taste of certain foods.

depending on your personal vegan story and reason for being one (and not everyone is vegan for the animals), it can be a seem a sacrifice to some initally at least, perhaps?

Eat Y'self Fitter
Feb 26th, 2009, 06:40 PM
I haven't seen veganism as a sacrifice at all. I still go to the same supermarket and best of all I cook my own healthy lunch rather than relying on takeout in the university takeout place. I've learned to cook and eat better plus if I really want to its very easy to emulate certain flavors in a vegan way. I feel more complete as a vegan. The only thing I've given up through this is bad habits.

Sarabi
Feb 26th, 2009, 07:35 PM
Guys, this is a petty argument. Whether or not it's a sacrifice is entirely based on how you view it. Usually, when people first GIVE UP something, they treat it like a sacrifice. If you try to deny it's GIVING UP something, I think you'll see how silly it is to deny that it's a sacrifice. Giving up something material ALWAYS has the potential to be a simple giving, a gift. Why people insist on viewing sacrifice as a negative thing I don't know, but I think it's a mere matter of culture. Western culture is clingy, clingy! So any time you hear the word "sacrifice," you think of blood dripping. That's not what sacrifice is from my Buddhist perspective, period. The point of sacrifice, in any culture though, should be to GIVE UP in order to GET... in this case, what you get isn't necessarily tangible. That doesn't make it any lesser. You don't just give up something for nothing... there is no point in denying that SLAVERY is built on a material gain that needs to be sacrificed for something more valuable.

Buddha Belly
Feb 26th, 2009, 07:43 PM
But this is great! I wish I were Catholic so I could participate in Lent! Lent seems like a great way to develop self-discipline. And heck, veganism is a sacrifice, whether it's normal or not. It's sacrificing certain privileges, or certain indulgences. Something you want to hold on to. What's a pity is that we see sacrifice as something abnormal or undesirable. Only by giving up the things we want to hold on to can we cease wanting them.

I am not religous at all but have given up stuff for lent. It is probably as it is a set amount of time with clear goals and it gives me a chance to change a habit or trait. I see it as a good thing and have given up smoking in the knowledge that i will start again at 65. I probably will not but for some reason this was comforting when i was giving up. Anything i give up is usually for good and the lent time is sufficiant enough for people to do it in.

mariana
Feb 26th, 2009, 09:56 PM
Guys, this is a petty argument. Whether or not it's a sacrifice is entirely based on how you view it. Usually, when people first GIVE UP something, they treat it like a sacrifice. If you try to deny it's GIVING UP something, I think you'll see how silly it is to deny that it's a sacrifice. Giving up something material ALWAYS has the potential to be a simple giving, a gift. Why people insist on viewing sacrifice as a negative thing I don't know, but I think it's a mere matter of culture. Western culture is clingy, clingy! So any time you hear the word "sacrifice," you think of blood dripping. That's not what sacrifice is from my Buddhist perspective, period. The point of sacrifice, in any culture though, should be to GIVE UP in order to GET... in this case, what you get isn't necessarily tangible. That doesn't make it any lesser. You don't just give up something for nothing... there is no point in denying that SLAVERY is built on a material gain that needs to be sacrificed for something more valuable.

I was going to ask after your first post if you were approaching it from a Buddhist perspective, because that's how I read it. I saw it as you saying that we all have attachments, and in this case it would be an attachment to meat/dairy, and giving that up (sacrificing) is a good thing, because you should strive to weaken your attachments. (Hope I interpreted your point correctly).

Merriam-Webster defines sacrifice as "surrender of something for the sake of something else." Veganism isn't "hard," but at first it can be difficult getting used to reading labels, figuring out what you can eat in restaurants, learning how to cook new dishes, etc. Even after you've been vegan while it's still difficult sometimes to find food on the go or to eat in omni restaurants. So most people do have to "surrender" something (like convenience), but you're doing it "for the sake of something else" (like the animals). Like Sarabi says, you give up something in order to gain something else, and I think veganism has many benefits (which outweigh any "costs," in my opinion). You get to discover new foods, meet new people (like awesome VFers :D), feel at peace with yourself knowing you're doing what's right, etc. So sacrifice isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do think veganism can be a sacrifice (especially at first when one's getting used to it), but the gains far outweigh the costs. At least that's how I see it. :)