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Corum
Apr 7th, 2009, 07:45 AM
(from another thread on here...)

I for one (or Hemlock) will never be buying Innocent anything, ever again - now they've sold out to Coca Cola :(

I don't care if they're vegan, organic or the most ethically produced product on the planet

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7986901.stm

A 30 Million stake in the company is hardly small is it?

Do these people have any idea what they're getting into bed with? Some people are so naive!! :mad:

leedsveg
Apr 7th, 2009, 08:36 AM
Maybe a name change from Innocent is in order, to something like 'Not Quite As Innocent As We Used To Be'?;)

Corum
Apr 7th, 2009, 08:58 AM
I have an idea...
Anyone read the book Belching Out the Devil: Global Adventures with Coca-Cola (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0091922933/ref=pd_thx_sims_1?pf_rd_p=165756691&pf_rd_s=left-2&pf_rd_t=3201&pf_rd_i=typ01&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0D4QTHY7JHVVV9CKPA5R) by Mark Thomas?

Reading it last year put me off Coke for life.

I would like to send them a copy (and will be doing shortly) - as I cannot understand how they can be so stupid. Anyone care to join me? If enough people bombard them with copies of this book, it might make someone in the company think.

Who knows? It might make a difference...

leedsveg
Apr 7th, 2009, 12:12 PM
Hi Corum

I'm quite sure that Innocent already 'know' about Coca-Cola and would come out with some bullsh*t like 'We've done it to try to influence Coca-Cola in a positive, ethical way'.

My feeling is that for most companies, times are hard in the current economic climate and after all 30m is 30m. The customers that Innocent lose through the link with Coca-Cola will probably be more than made up for by the number they will gain. I used to drink Innocent smoothies but not any more.

I suggest you hold on to your book for the moment, then pass it on to the first simple soul who comes onto this thread trying to tell us how wonderful Coca-Cola are blah blah blah. :mad:

1gentlemaorispirit
Apr 7th, 2009, 01:12 PM
I never could stomach the taste of Cola or Pepsi for that matter. Especially as Cola is used to clean the blood off Tar-Mac after car crashes. The ingreidents used today are a far cry from the original ingredients that gave them their names. I've lnown people clean copper with Cola, so imagine what it does to your stomach?! Their ethics are Pants, too!

As for Inocent smoothies, they're OK, but nothing to write home about. Buying the fruit and making the smoothies myself is cheaper and tastier!

I don't buy from either company and never will!

harpy
Apr 7th, 2009, 01:45 PM
It seems like only yesterday some of us were getting upset with them for allowing their products to be sold in McDonalds: http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14873

Call me a luddite but I don't see the point of smoothies, except for persuading reluctant children to consume fruit. I'd rather just eat fruit. (So that will save me the trouble of boycotting them :D )

DavidT
Apr 7th, 2009, 02:38 PM
I never could stomach the taste of Cola or Pepsi for that matter. Especially as Cola is used to clean the blood off Tar-Mac after car crashes. The ingreidents used today are a far cry from the original ingredients that gave them their names. I've lnown people clean copper with Cola, so imagine what it does to your stomach?! Their ethics are Pants, too!

As for Inocent smoothies, they're OK, but nothing to write home about. Buying the fruit and making the smoothies myself is cheaper and tastier!

I don't buy from either company and never will!

Fair play to you. We need more people like you.

Mega-corporations trying to fluffy-up their image! As if. If you have money, find out whose pockets it goes into before you spend it. You never know what you're supporting...

cobweb
Apr 7th, 2009, 03:09 PM
I am unsure how i could live my life with the family that i have now without handing over my money to companies whose ethics (or lack of them) upset me, so i must be a hypocrite.

I have an oil fired which gives me heat and hot water, and i use electricity, presumably nuclear powered.

I have to run a car due to the lack of reliable public transport where i live and the nature of my husband's disabilities.

I shop in Tesco as it's the one and only place where i can get all the shopping that i need at an affordable cost for my current budget.

I also own computers (made from largely unrecyclable parts, bought from largely unethical companies, running off electricity) and televisions, which i use daily.

I bought a share in my house from the local housing association, who pay staff who probably all eat meat, same for the local building firm who built the house.

I wash my clothes with detergent which probably adds to the general water pollution, same with the shower gel that i use.

I also use a large and unethical bank chain.

I'm afraid i do know where my money goes, and it does prick my conscience, but at the end of the day i choose to spare my mental health which in the past has suffered from the level of anxiety i placed upon it.

DavidT
Apr 7th, 2009, 03:38 PM
That's a great, honest answer, cobweb.

You're not that much different from millions of others in terms of 'hypocrisy'.

My answer would be to tackle one thing at a time: your list is so long (and probably incomplete) that it would get any self-respecting ethical vegan down! I have/had the same problem so I made a list and crikey what a list. I'm whittling it down bit by bit.

For instance, start by switching to a supplier of 'green' electricity (check here (http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/FreeBuyersGuides/energyutilities/greenelectricitysuppliers.aspx) for a start) and you can successfully cross something off that list. Do something like that say, every month, and in a couple of years you would have a much shorter list.

What do you think?
Every little helps! :D

Charlotte
Apr 7th, 2009, 03:43 PM
Pretty much everyone has to compromise on some ethical beliefs in their lives. You just have do as much as is reasonable/viable for you and your circumstances and encourage others to do the same.

DavidT
Apr 7th, 2009, 03:46 PM
Pretty much everyone has to compromise on some ethical beliefs in their lives. You just have do as much as is reasonable/viable for you and your circumstances and encourage others to do the same.

That's it exactly - but never forget those compromises; try to be pro-active in eliminating them, say by writing/talking to the causers of the compromises.

Otherwise yes, Charlotte, lead by example!

Pob
Apr 7th, 2009, 06:49 PM
Especially as Cola is used to clean the blood off Tar-Mac after car crashes. The ingreidents used today are a far cry from the original ingredients that gave them their names. That's not actually true (http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp). I expect they use water for that. But that doesn't make water bad to drink.

It is a shame that Innocent have done this, but then I never buy their stuff anyway as it is overpriced, so I can't really moan about it.

Buddha Belly
Apr 7th, 2009, 06:54 PM
[QUOTE=Pob;565035]That's not actually true (http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp). I expect they use water for

Buddha Belly
Apr 7th, 2009, 06:59 PM
The ethical issues mentioned earlier are already being discussed in the 'where does your money go thread'

1gentlemaorispirit
Apr 7th, 2009, 07:05 PM
That's not actually true (http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp). I expect they use water for that. But that doesn't make water bad to drink.

It is a shame that Innocent have done this, but then I never buy their stuff anyway as it is overpriced, so I can't really moan about it.

I've worked with the Police for 16 years and have seen Cola used to clean blood of the roads.

cobweb
Apr 7th, 2009, 07:37 PM
That's a great, honest answer, cobweb.

You're not that much different from millions of others in terms of 'hypocrisy'.

My answer would be to tackle one thing at a time: your list is so long (and probably incomplete) that it would get any self-respecting ethical vegan down! I have/had the same problem so I made a list and crikey what a list. I'm whittling it down bit by bit.

For instance, start by switching to a supplier of 'green' electricity (check here (http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/FreeBuyersGuides/energyutilities/greenelectricitysuppliers.aspx) for a start) and you can successfully cross something off that list. Do something like that say, every month, and in a couple of years you would have a much shorter list.

What do you think?
Every little helps! :D


Yeah but i'm not too bothered i'm afraid :o.

I used to be absolutely fastidious about these things, i have literally lived without mod cons, but now i feel i have enough worry in my life :satisfied:.
I got to the point where i though why the hell should i make myself ill with anxiety when everyone else (or most people) don't even bother to do something as simple as recycling? :confused:.

I won't change my energy supplier because the one i'm with gives me 20% off my bills due to my situation, and the other things are pretty much unavoidable as far as i can see. I'm vegan because i detest cruelty to animals and that is my driving force. I honestly don't believe that me not eating animals makes a huge difference to the death industry (unfortunately) but i don't see animals as food/clothes/entertainment. In other words i'm not really making a stand by voting with my money, i'm just consuming the products i see as fit for their purpose.

harpy
Apr 7th, 2009, 09:46 PM
I got to the point where i though why the hell should i make myself ill with anxiety

You shouldn't, cw!

I suspect you and probably most people here are doing what they can to be "ethical consumers", however they interpret that, but some things are more practical for some people than others - and we don't always know how other people are fixed.

I feel it's fine to raise awareness of these issues, but not to make other people feel bad about what they are and aren't doing, or try to impose one's own values on other people.

DavidT
Apr 8th, 2009, 10:37 AM
I got to the point where i though why the hell should i make myself ill with anxiety when everyone else (or most people) don't even bother to do something as simple as recycling? :confused:.

Speaking from strictly personal experience, my life has been way cheaper since starting to really 'bother'. Honest, we live so cheaply that my wife has been able to give up work and now grows a lot of our own food, making our life even cheaper.

This is not what the powers that be want to hear!

Anyway, if other people can't be bothered to recycle, for instance, I just get on with it without preaching and I am setting a good example, which others can look up to or not.


You shouldn't, cw!

I suspect you and probably most people here are doing what they can to be "ethical consumers", however they interpret that, but some things are more practical for some people than others - and we don't always know how other people are fixed.

I feel it's fine to raise awareness of these issues, but not to make other people feel bad about what they are and aren't doing, or try to impose one's own values on other people.

Exactly!

cobweb
Apr 8th, 2009, 11:24 AM
DavidT i know you mean well, and i know what you're saying because i have lived more closely to the way you do, (before i was married), i guess all i am saying is that i feel its not possible or practical for me right now, and maybe i just don't want it badly enough :o.

I used to grow veg (til quite recently) but i don't find it easy in Orkney and, i have to be honest, i found it wasn't an awful lot cheaper by the time i had paid for organic seeds (some of which never grew), compost, etc. I also made my own compost which attracted rats into our garden. I just felt i had to draw my own line so i drew it at being vegan and just reducing the amount of unnecessary products i purchased.

I do buy coca cola though because it seems to head off my migraines if i drink it soon enough so i'd rather buy that than buy Migraleve :(.

vegcurry
Apr 8th, 2009, 12:02 PM
I heard an interview with them yesterday on Radio 4 and they were asked - and I paraphrase here as I can't recall the exact wording - '"what if Coca-Cola got a 51% share in the company, would it affect their ethical policy?", their reply was - and I paraphrase here again - "we'll see". That just about summed it all up for me. Bye bye ethical values. Bye bye Innocent.

DavidT
Apr 8th, 2009, 12:07 PM
I heard an interview with them yesterday on Radio 4 and they were asked - and I paraphrase here as I can't recall the exact wording - '"what if Coca-Cola got a 51% share in the company, would it affect their ethical policy?", their reply was - and I paraphrase here again - "we'll see". That just about summed it all up for me. Bye bye ethical values. Bye bye Innocent.

At first, I thought you meant Coca-Cola's ethical policy! I thought I was going mad.

Anyway, that is a surprisingly honest answer: it means 'yes' but using that word would jeopardise the deal.

cobweb
Apr 8th, 2009, 02:37 PM
I have owned and run 2 businesses, unfortunately i can say from experience that ethics often = no profit, which even more often spells D.I.S.A.S.T.E.R, crap though that is.

Agatha
Apr 8th, 2009, 11:49 PM
i'm shocked and really saddened. i genuinely loved Innocent smoothies and they're salad pots are quite scrummy too. :(

DavidT
Apr 9th, 2009, 10:50 AM
i'm shocked and really saddened. i genuinely loved Innocent smoothies and they're salad pots are quite scrummy too. :(

Now's the time to find an ethical replacement. That'll show 'em!

Gaia forgive me that I might appear to be endorsing this take over in even a tiny way but are Coca-Cola (inadvertently) doing their bit for entrepreneurialism?

Hopefully, there will be outraged people out there who are now thinking about setting up their own ethical smoothie business.

leedsveg
Apr 10th, 2009, 08:53 AM
Green & Blacks selling out to Cadburys
Bob Dylan to Starbucks
Pret a Manger to McDonalds
and now Innocent to Coca Cola.

Bit of a worrying trend here?

:eek::eek::eek: