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Zero
Jun 29th, 2009, 11:18 AM
But Ms_Derious, there's also the danger of funds from vegans propping up the dairy industry, or even (and some people will think I'm mad to say this) a danger of the dairy industry deliberately suppressing or limiting vegan options, much in the way that the oil and automotive industries are reputed to suppress alternatives to their products.

Given that they are working within the realms of captialism I would say that they are looking to expand their business into the area of the market that they are now missing out on, especially with more and more people being diagnosed with specific dairy allergies/intolerances.

The dairy free market is bigger than the vegan market and I highly doubt big dairy industries see us vegans as much of a threat at all. Maybe one day when veganism becomes more of a demand.

Whilst it is sad that they are being purchased by someone in the dairy industry, I highly doubt they are conspiring against us. Companies tend to adapt to the demand of their market and grow into similar areas or industry they see as profitable.


I agree with chico - a selling-out by a previously relatively trustworthy company is more likely to be a negative move, particularly to an American company. Although I don't use soya milk I do occasionally buy their soya yoghurt. I'll think twice from now on.

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying that American companies are inherently bad or worse than companies domiciled in other countries?

DavidT
Jun 29th, 2009, 11:33 AM
double post

DavidT
Jun 29th, 2009, 11:34 AM
Company acquisition also often means consolidation of products, meaning less choice, though as I have already implied, it remains to be seen whether or not this particular takeover is a bad or a good thing.

I will continue to make whatever purchases I need from as local a source as possible. I do realise the ingredients may come from the same place no matter who owns the company but America is, for me, at a far end of a chain. I'd rather my money went to (in order of preference) an Irish/British/European company.

I also realise that American companies have to (largely) abide by EU rules; however, any EU company acquisition by an American or other non-EU company will ultimately weaken what are our far more sensible (and possibly more easily monitored) food regulations than American/other ones.

Prawnil
Jun 29th, 2009, 03:23 PM
Why do you ask that, do you have any shares on the company?
Mainly because you didn't make clear who you hate or why. You hadn't read the thread, so were ranting about a situation that didn't actually exist.
Dean Foods are a dairy giant, but can you honestly say you knew anything about Vandemoortele at the time you posted (Alpro didn't sell itself)? If not, they might as well have been a Pharmaceutical giant, & the deal might not have been very significant news.

Whether it's intended or not, your posts have a consistently near-hysterical tone to them.

Jiffy
Jun 29th, 2009, 03:59 PM
Soooo then, if anyone no longer feels they an buy Alpro products, what alternatives are readily available? It's really the voghourts I'm thinking of.

Gorilla
Jun 29th, 2009, 04:25 PM
there is Sojasun which is available in wholefood shops and i think it's pretty good. they do different flavours like banana, passion fruit, and prune - as well as strawberry, natural etc.

other than that i only know of Granovita UHT yogurts which Asda and Holland & Barrett used to sell but it's nasty stuff imo.

DavidT
Jun 29th, 2009, 04:41 PM
Soya milks: Plamil, Sojasun, Sunrise, Tiger White are all better choices, especially Plamil and Sojasun as they are organic.

Yoghurts: Sojasun, as far as I know, is the only decent vegan alternative. Or make your own.

Gorilla
Jun 30th, 2009, 10:18 AM
can you still get Tiger White? i haven't seen it for years. even my local wholefood shops only stock Provamel or some over-priced European brands these days.

i persevered with making my own soya milk for quite a while but i just couldn't get it to work well enough.

DavidT
Jun 30th, 2009, 12:38 PM
can you still get Tiger White?

Ah.

http://www.tigerwhitedrinks.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.mailout

Sorry.

Roxy
Jul 2nd, 2009, 03:30 PM
I wonder how this affects Belsoy. They are a sister company to Alpro, and it's the brand we have here, instead of Alpro.

http://www.belsoy.ca/homepage/_en/index.html

chico
Jul 6th, 2009, 10:35 AM
Chico, I think you need to cool your jets.


Mainly because you didn't make clear who you hate or why. You hadn't read the thread, so were ranting about a situation that didn't actually exist. (...)
Whether it's intended or not, your posts have a consistently near-hysterical tone to them.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I hate companies that do vegan products and then sell themselves to dairy or vivisectionist companies, and YES I also hate dairy and vivisectionist companies. Now if you cannot deal with my hatred fine just leave me alone! I'm just expressing my feelings so it's you lot that need to calm your jets down. Just leave me alone with my hatred and keep your pseudo self-moderation to your good selves, by all means. It's funny to see how sometimes people go around reading my posts elsewhere and then come back to make hasty, patronizing generalizations. Hysterical? Yes mate my pleasure and I'm very proud of it. Thank you very much. Now mind your own business and stick to the topic rather than attacking me and we'll get to discuss things just fine.

Oh and btw, whether provamel/alpro sold themselves to Unilever or Nestle or to Dean Foods doesn't make any difference to me, I'm still as gutted, so I didn't rant about a situation that didn't actually exist. I'm doing fine, thank you.

Zero
Jul 6th, 2009, 11:42 AM
If you want to "left alone with your hatred" why express it on a public forum, sure you must have expected mixed responses?

chico
Jul 13th, 2009, 09:44 AM
I've got no time for this. Just because I say I hate something I'm not expecting to create havoc on a public forum, and you're not compelled to reply to me. Just leave it as it is.

Zero
Jul 13th, 2009, 10:08 AM
No one is attacking you chico, I'm sorry you feel that way. You've just chosen to take it that way. People simply wanted to understand the rationale behind what you were saying, but then you just flew off the handle and asked us all "what's wrong with you people?".

As we know, the previous Belgian holding company was not a vegan company, they made products with animal ingredients. While it sucks that they are being sold to a dairy company I don't think hating them is going to be of much use really, to me there isn't a huge degree of difference between supporting the dairy industry and being a subsidiary of it (but it's your life so do what you will, obviously).

Personally I think the most effective use of time is educating people why not to eat meat/eggs/dairy etc rather than spending so much time worrying about who is buying who and hating them for it, it's just business in the frame work of capitalism (it's a symptom of a bad system) it's not anything personal against vegans :)

Hope you have a good day :)

chico
Jul 20th, 2009, 09:42 AM
I didn't know the belgian company that previously held them had different activities, thanks for that. I don't know what there is to be explained about my "hatred", I just hate them for the reasons I've expressed before, what else do you want me to say or get "rationale" about? Cor blimley, just because I said random internet talk like a meaningless sentence we get all hyped up for a silly post on an internet forum? Certainly we have better things to do, right? Good'ay sir.

WeeLee
Jul 20th, 2009, 12:07 PM
I just hope that the soya they use continues to be ethically sourced and gmo free. I don't like the idea that the money will be used to fund the dairy industry but then again these days huge corporate companies are so inbred that you bet any money you spend will go towards the dairy/meat industry. In fact, your income tax goes towards the dairy/meat industry anyway with all the subsidising the government does! :(

I suppose the best bet would be to try and use companies like plamil as much as possible as they are a vegan company! But we can only do as much as we can I suppose. :D

chico
Jul 27th, 2009, 09:16 AM
Yes absolutely. In fact, traditionnally soya milk / tofu / etc production has intimately been linked to stock raising. The okara (left over residue from soya milk production) has been used to feed cattle for ages.

The same is true with vegetable oil.

Roxy
Aug 3rd, 2009, 11:31 PM
In fact, your income tax goes towards the dairy/meat industry anyway with all the subsidising the government does! :(



Heh....that's something I've never really thought about.

DavidT
Aug 4th, 2009, 10:37 AM
In fact, your income tax goes towards the dairy/meat industry anyway with all the subsidising the government does!


Heh....that's something I've never really thought about.

It's clever the way they keep people from thinking about it, isn't it? I've always detested it, just as I detest tax going on nuclear research etc.

Not a great deal you can do (apart from voting green) unless you want to start paying less tax somehow.

Daffodil
Aug 4th, 2009, 10:44 AM
can anyone suggest some alternate brands of milk and chocolate dessert that i currently but alpro of? that they sell in Tesco?? gutted....

Ms_Derious
Aug 4th, 2009, 10:53 AM
can anyone suggest some alternate brands of milk and chocolate dessert that i currently but alpro of? that they sell in Tesco?? gutted....

Are you buying them for porting about in lunchboxes or for eating at home?

I ask, because there are some really good vegan recipes using mylk, coco and cornflour. They aren't very high in fat, and they are very nice.

Personally, as I need to get more fat into my diet I'm not eating raw avocado mousse, this is very rich and very portable. You don't need much of it though, as it is very, very heavy. If you don't want that much fat, then the mylk, coco powder route is good, but I don't know how they stand up to lunchbox travel.

Daffodil
Aug 4th, 2009, 08:26 PM
Are you buying them for porting about in lunchboxes or for eating at home?

I ask, because there are some really good vegan recipes using mylk, coco and cornflour. They aren't very high in fat, and they are very nice.

Personally, as I need to get more fat into my diet I'm not eating raw avocado mousse, this is very rich and very portable. You don't need much of it though, as it is very, very heavy. If you don't want that much fat, then the mylk, coco powder route is good, but I don't know how they stand up to lunchbox travel.


for home and lunchboxes.

is that like custard? sounds lush. i notice the ingredients on my birds custard powder is cornflour, i just add sugar and alpro milk. i should try this instead. :-) thank you.

Ms_Derious
Aug 5th, 2009, 09:02 AM
I've PMed you with a recipe, but you might want to try this one too

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Dairy-Free-Chocolate-Pudding/Detail.aspx

Also, avocado mousse... this is my recipe of choice

1 Avocado
2-3 Tbs coco powder
10 dates or 1-2tbs sweetener of choice (Maple is nice)
Water to blend (If you use dates, you'll need about 4 tbs)

Throw into processor. Wizzzzzzzzzz, scrape down sides, swear, whizz, repeat until smooth. Best left in fridge for a short while to firm up. This is very, very, very rich, but also not really that bad for you if you don't get a lot of fats in your diet from elsewhere.

leedsveg
Aug 5th, 2009, 10:18 AM
It's clever the way they keep people from thinking about it, isn't it?

Not sure I know exactly who you mean by 'they'?:confused: I think you are referring to the meat/dairy industry, but it could be the government or the press. Please clarify with examples.

leedsveg:)

DavidT
Aug 5th, 2009, 10:27 AM
You have it, lv. All three, plus schools of course. The UK currently spends £38 billion annually on its military. Nice to know over £600 of tax per living body in the UK goes to your, ermm 'defence', eh?

I wonder what Northern Crock will end up costing the taxpayer? RBS? Lloyds? More like trillions than billions, I would think.

And as for PFIs, well, the taxpayer is being well-and-truly shafted for generations to come.