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jackxattack
Apr 20th, 2006, 11:01 AM
I've met (what seems like) loads of vegans- but that maybe because I spend most of my time in Brighton, hanging out with veggies and vegans and go to a lot of gigs. The punk scene has a lot of vegans. For instance I know one person who is vegan that doesn't listen to punk. But I know about 20 vegans that do listen to punk. Especially in Austria. Though apparantly it's cool to be vegan and straight edge there.

That's definitely true. I got into veganism through punk and all the vegans I know through the UK/US diy punk scenes.

Troutina
Apr 20th, 2006, 04:07 PM
That's definitely true. I got into veganism through punk and all the vegans I know through the UK/US diy punk scenes.

I think also because a lot of gigs have leaflets about it as well.
And when you meet people who are vegan it encourages you.
I put on gigs in Burgess Hill and we had Amnesty International leaflets and reading material, Viva leaflets and vegan society leaflets.
So do friends who put on gigs in Worthing and a lot of Concorde shows do too.

Gal
Apr 28th, 2006, 06:45 PM
I don't pay any attention to polls as they usually just cover one area and ask a limited amount of people and just guess from there.

As for those who say they are vegetarian and still eat fish, I know many people who will soon tell them pretty quick that they are still carnivores. Two volunteers that I work with are vegetarians who eat eggs and cheeses but use soya milks in all of their drinks and shakes.

I live in Guisborough and I don't believe that there are actually any other vegans here. I have talked with the staff of all of the food catering places and they too have never come across any vegan who lives in even the surrounding areas nevermind here.

ALONE !!!! :(

Russ
Apr 28th, 2006, 07:33 PM
I have an idea for what we can do to increase the vegan population here in the UK.

What we need to do is start up an exclusively vegan breeding program. Since vegans are much healthier than omnivores and vegetarians, we will live as they die out due to the survival of the fittest. I am willing to put myself forward as the Alpha Male of this breeding program. Yes, it's a sacrifice, but the ends will justify the means.

So ... form a line ..

the_red_star
Apr 28th, 2006, 07:39 PM
Hmm ... initially it sounds like a good idea but i would maybe run and hide if were you, this could bring about an unrising of women with strong feminist views if the make-up thread is anything to go by!!! :p

Anyone any other ideas apart from a soley vegan breeding program lead by Russ?? :D

Russ
Apr 28th, 2006, 07:51 PM
Hey I was arguing strong feminist views too on other threads!

.. I can't believe it's come to this, but here we go: I was just making a small joke (hahaha etc.) There is nothing anti-feminist about making a joke about having sex with a lot of people. Geez ...

veggiesosage
Apr 28th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Erm Russ, Red Star did have a big grin face in her post, I think she may well have been joining in with the joke!

Russ
Apr 28th, 2006, 08:01 PM
It's political correctness gone mad.

the_red_star
Apr 28th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I was, i wasn't being serious in the slightest!! Sorry if you took it the wrong way, i do apologise :)

tabitha
Apr 28th, 2006, 08:02 PM
Or wanting to be first in the queue for Russ's attentions maybe.....;)

Russ
Apr 28th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Hey, I make the jokes around here. I don't get them.

Blazin_Gwen
Apr 28th, 2006, 08:47 PM
1,000,000 vegans in the U.S.? You would think that there would be a lot more vegan restaurants and shoes stores.In San Diego we have a vegan store, a vegan grocery store and a vegan restaurant. :)

Pilaf
Apr 29th, 2006, 05:55 PM
In San Diego we have a vegan store, a vegan grocery store and a vegan restaurant. :)

I'm thinking of moving to either San Diego or at least NYC. I hear good things about the vegan communities around those places.

tipsy
Apr 29th, 2006, 06:34 PM
In San Diego we have a vegan store, a vegan grocery store and a vegan restaurant. :)

and a vegan catering service!

run by none other than (where has she beeen) our CC!!:D

geysir111
May 9th, 2006, 06:40 AM
I think the number of vegan is not gonna grow high if most of vegan (at least most of the vegans I know) are decided to not have children...Maybe 2 vegans out of 3 do not want children or maybe 1 or 2... It's not gonna solve the problem.

Do you know why most vegans don't want to increase number of vegans and therefore enlarging veganism? We need to be more numerous... so let's beget now :D lol

Could we speak about the issue of increasing vegan population by having children? Or is there another topic about it?

Christophe

Sea
May 9th, 2006, 11:04 AM
Do you know why most vegans don't want to increase number of vegans and therefore enlarging veganism?

I'd be happy to increase the vegan population, as soon as they figure out a way for guys to give birth!

the_red_star
May 9th, 2006, 01:58 PM
Klayr - I'm with you! There is no way i'm putting myself through child birth, i don't think i'll ever be ready for screaming kids runnin around my feet!!

Russ
May 9th, 2006, 01:58 PM
Do you know why most vegans don't want to increase number of vegans and therefore enlarging veganism?

Well, firstly, I personally have no desire to take responsibility for a child and I can't see that changing any time during the course of my life.

Second, and this is the chronically depressed, cynical pessimist/misanthropist in me talking, I don't think I could be cruel enough to bring another life into this horrendous world.

Third, no vegan lives their life without leaving some footprint on someone somewhere. Just because someone doesn't eat meat and dairy doesn't mean they're not going to have a negative effect on the world in some other way. Anyway, you might be able to force your kid to be vegan but for how long, at some point they're going to grow up and make their own decision, lo and behold you have brought another meateater into the world.

Fourth, I would rather increase the number of vegans by turning omnis into vegans through education. It seems to me that would do more than just birthing new vegans because that doesn't REDUCE the number of omnis, hence same number of animals being killed.

geysir111
May 9th, 2006, 05:44 PM
Thank you for your nice answer Russ, These are strong arguments...


Well, firstly, I personally have no desire to take responsibility for a child and I can't see that changing any time during the course of my life.

Everybody has his own desire and means in his/her life so it's your choice, but I think you don't wanna take this responsability maybe because of your following reasons. I would be ready to have up to 15 children maybe... And one of the numerous reason which strenghten my desire of having children is that I believe that having veggie or vegan children will make the world a better place.


Second, and this is the chronically depressed, cynical pessimist/misanthropist in me talking, I don't think I could be cruel enough to bring another life into this horrendous world.

I'm a humanitarian misanthrope too I think... but still, there's hope and that's why having children raised in harmony and respect will let them be the change that we want for mankind future... and even if you believe there's no hope, then why are you vegan? or if you believe there's no hope for mankind, then consider than it's worthy to fight for a cause which is ineluctably aim to die (maybe that's more a question of honour or belief I admit).


Third, no vegan lives their life without leaving some footprint on someone somewhere. Just because someone doesn't eat meat and dairy doesn't mean they're not going to have a negative effect on the world in some other way. Anyway, you might be able to force your kid to be vegan but for how long, at some point they're going to grow up and make their own decision, lo and behold you have brought another meateater into the world.

As far as I know, there's actually about 1.8 hectare of productiv land available for humans, according that we leave 12% of our planet to natural preservation. In the very future, I hope that human population will decrease, when the lawmakers (and that depends of our votes and of the creation of alternativ vegetarian political parties) will decide a proper and humane population control (by birth control) in order to prevent a Malthusian catastrophe. I know that loads of vegan, especially those who aren't that much environmentally-friendly, are using much more natural ressources than they should. But it's our duty to raise possible children in respect of the Earth, natural ressources available and others.
Check thy ecological footprint (http://www.myfootprint.org/) on our very Earth. I had 1.8 but hope to lower this in the future... They don't take into accoumpt our travels by boat with motor propulsion (sail propulsion is pretty environmentally-friendly isn't it?)?
And about child training, it depends of how you educate them... with a not-so-strong-authority when you listen to your children and give them a good education with a high social context and strong links within the community. In that way, things will be unlikely that he had a teenage crisis. And then they'll become veggies or vegans who will act for a better world in the way they want... or at least they'll just respect it. And even if one children out of ten becomes omni, then I wouldn't damn me...


Fourth, I would rather increase the number of vegans by turning omnis into vegans through education. It seems to me that would do more than just birthing new vegans because that doesn't REDUCE the number of omnis, hence same number of animals being killed.

Well, children you'll have will themselves turns omni into veggies and so on... But anyway, an ethical birth control policy has to be taken by UN or at least by most countries.

Christophe

TofuFooYung
May 9th, 2006, 06:00 PM
How many vegans does it take to screw in a lightbulb?


... Two

Think about it :D

TofuFooYung
May 9th, 2006, 06:08 PM
What are the UKs Vegan Society member figures? That would be a nice place to start, though I was vegan for ages before I actually thought about joining.

Don't know about other countries, but we're definitely growing and the awareness is growing.

When I meet new people through my job and mention I'm vegan, more often than not, the person I'm talking to mentions that they know a vegan, that they themself were once vegetarian etc.

Russ
May 9th, 2006, 06:09 PM
How would you enforce birth control? Drowning unwanted kids in paddy fields like China? (Edit: "AUTHORITARIAN".)
There is no Malthusian crisis on the horizon. To be honest I think Malthus's arguments were a little simple. There's enough food for everyone in the world right now, distribution is the problem, and we can trace that back to systems of exploitation, including but not limited to, capitalism.

"Everybody has his own desire and means in his/her life so it's your choice, but I think you don't wanna take this responsability maybe because of your following reasons"

Agree on the first part, I wasn't advocating that anyone should tell anyone else when and if they can have kids or not; I would never even suggest such a horrible idea. Second part, no, it has nothing to do with my following reasons, I have absolutely no desire to have a child or children, it has always been that way and I think always will.

"and even if you believe there's no hope, then why are you vegan?"

I don't always believe there's no hope for this planet, just in those darker moments. As I said, it was the cynic in me talking. Even if there was no hope, as a matter of principle I feel it's my responsibility to fight against systems of exploitation. If the world ends tomorrow, I'm still going to try to alleviate as much suffering as I can today.

My ecological footprint was 1.2. Apparently if everyone lived like me we would need 1.0 planets.

Korn
May 9th, 2006, 07:00 PM
Do you know why most vegans don't want to increase number of vegans and therefore enlarging veganism?
I have never heard that "most vegans don't want to increase the number of vegans and therefore enlarging veganism" - of course this isn't the case...

Korn
May 9th, 2006, 07:03 PM
I just edited a post in this thread - there's no need to imply that others are representing fascist opinions, really. Please just share your opinions, and try not to insult others.

Russ
May 9th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Controlling/denying birth rights isn't (deleted)? It sure is as far as I can tell. I think my point was a fair one. If you like I can use a different word like "authoritarian".