The Sunday Times: 'Vegan before dinner time' diet

[VeganMonkey]

Did anyone else see this? I know I shouldn't bother being annoyed really but I am! Just that first sentence alone.. vegan 'merely' for animals?! Of course it's far more important to do it so you can lose weight without having to exercise ... (like that ever happened to me?!)

The 'vegan before dinner time' diet
Mark Bittman's Food Matters has created a Hollywood craze that helps you lose weight and help the planet

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/diet_and_fitness/article6732043.ece

[harpy]

:rolleyes: Stoopid in so many ways - but to look on the bright side if people stick with it it does mean that fewer animals will get eaten or otherwise exploited, I guess.

[scarlet begonias]

"...the meat-free, or 'conscious eating', market is predicted to grow by 19% in the next five years"

At least this is good! As good as any other prediction might be, anyway.

[Sarabi]

Have you heard of the VBM? Vegan Between Meals? :D I asked The Onion to write a report on this.

[VeganMonkey]

Wow, that's a whole other level of ridiculous!

Yep, I suppose we should see it as a step in the right direction at least...

[Sarabi]

It's not a "step in the right direction." It's a step in the WRONG direction. It's people co-opting the term vegan and trying to make vegan = omnivore.

[Ms_Derious]

:rolleyes: Stoopid in so many ways - but to look on the bright side if people stick with it it does mean that fewer animals will get eaten or otherwise exploited, I guess.


It's not a "step in the right direction." It's a step in the WRONG direction. It's people co-opting the term vegan and trying to make vegan = omnivore.

I have so say, I can see both sides of the coin here. Personally though, I'm really not comfortable with the word 'vegan' being used as a part time food preference. It muddies the water, in very much the same way I disliked people who didn't eat red meat or chicken calling themselves vegetarians.

There are few additional things here. I don't expect these part time 'vegans' will give up bread with milk powder in it, or skimmed milk in their coffee, or even salad dressings with milk derived proteins in them.

The other thing is, it isn't really a reliable weigh loss plan unless you eat in a healthful way. I know plenty of vegan foods that are calorie packed, nuts, seeds, breads, soy cheese... need I go on?

I do think the concept of living animal product free 90% of the time is easier to sell people, and that at least its something, but I just don't want the word 'vegan' used in this way.

[VeganMonkey]

It's not a "step in the right direction." It's a step in the WRONG direction. It's people co-opting the term vegan and trying to make vegan = omnivore.

Of course you're right from one point of view - that's why I posted this, because the whole idea makes me very angry. But I was trying to look at it from a positive point of view too: as Harpy says, if people are vegan 'part-time' at least that's less animals being consumed. And we can always be a little hopeful that a few people might make the move from part-time to full-time eventually...

[VeganMonkey]

[QUOTE=Ms_Derious;595093]I don't expect these part time 'vegans' will give up bread with milk powder in it, or skimmed milk in their coffee, or even salad dressings with milk derived proteins in them. [QUOTE]

I'm certain you're right about this, especially as one of the 'vegan before dinner time' meal plans at the bottom of the article includes a breakfast smoothie sweetened with honey. Good start!

[harpy]

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the misuse of the term either. The idea of a part-time vegan makes about as much sense as the idea of a part-time virgin, as I'm sure has been pointed out before :D I would be happier if these people said that they ate only vegan food during the day, but of course that sounds less catchy :rolleyes:

I do think, though, that from a pragmatic point of view something that persuaded large numbers of people to cut down on their consumption of animal products could have a huge benefit.

[Ms_Derious]

I do think, though, that from a pragmatic point of view something that persuaded large numbers of people to cut down on their consumption of animal products could have a huge benefit.

I agree :)

Its the calling it vegan bit that gets up my bum.

However, I doubt you are going to get lots of people saying 'I'm doing the 'don't eat a lot of dairy, eggs or meat, except in the evening, or if you really fancy it a bit during the day won't hurt' diet'

My sister (the bad vegetarian) told me last time she saw me she was thinking of going vegan for a month to see if she lost weight. Yep, it's a weigh loss plan. Esp those deep fried chocolate bars I've seen Mr Flibble posting.

[leedsveg]

It's not a "step in the right direction." It's a step in the WRONG direction. It's people co-opting the term vegan and trying to make vegan = omnivore.

I totally agree Sarabi. :thumbsup: The article completely misunderstands (or doesn't really care) what veganism is and I find their highjacking of the word 'vegan' offensive.

leedsveg:mad:

[fiamma]

*Picks petals off a daisy* Laaa-laaa-laaah "Am I vegan? Am I not? Am I vegan? Am I not? Not??? Not!!! Hurrah!!! Now where's that fois gras???" :devil:

What the frick are they going to come up with next? As if it wasn't hard enough to be taken seriously as a vegan without people saying "Oh, but you eat animal stuff in the evenings, right? " :dizzy:

WWWWWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmphh hhhhhhhh :mad::mad::mad:

[twinkle]

Mark Bittman is a good cookery writer. I've got his 'How to cook everything vegetarian', and apart from the puddings it's really good for vegans. I think while he was researching it, he found out a lot of stuff he didn't like, and unfortunately I think he went off on a bit of a trip into his own little world and wrote what I regarded as quite a disappointing book about being a more caring omnivore... I think his heart is in the right place, but he's too embroiled in being a foodie to make the steps to veg he probably knows in his heart of hearts he should.

I hope anyone who likes this book does go back to his earlier work, because it give soooo many options for great vegan food, and they're actually easy. I've got lots of cookery books and this is the only one I've made more than about 2 recipes out of.

[leedsveg]

Mark Bittman is a good cookery writer. I've got his 'How to cook everything vegetarian', and apart from the puddings it's really good for vegans. I think while he was researching it, he found out a lot of stuff he didn't like, and unfortunately I think he went off on a bit of a trip into his own little world and wrote what I regarded as quite a disappointing book about being a more caring omnivore... I think his heart is in the right place, but he's too embroiled in being a foodie to make the steps to veg he probably knows in his heart of hearts he should.

I hope anyone who likes this book does go back to his earlier work, because it give soooo many options for great vegan food, and they're actually easy. I've got lots of cookery books and this is the only one I've made more than about 2 recipes out of.

Hi twinkle

I hear what you say about Mark Bittman but he seems to be the one deserting we vegans, rather than us deserting him. I think I'd tend to support a food writer who is actually vegan and whose heart keeps her/him pointing in the right (=vegan) direction. Perhaps a letter to Mark Brittman from one of his fans, namely you, might get him to see the error of his ways.

leedsveg:)

[BlackCats]

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the misuse of the term either. The idea of a part-time vegan makes about as much sense as the idea of a part-time virgin, as I'm sure has been pointed out before :D

:D:p

It is irritating but I suppose at least people are maybe "being vegan" (:rolleyes:) some of the time so at least less animals are being eaten no matter how pathetic the reason.

[harpy]

:D:p

It is irritating but I suppose at least people are maybe "being vegan" (:rolleyes:) some of the time so at least less animals are being eaten no matter how pathetic the reason.

Also, as VeganMonkey pointed out some of them might decide to go full-time later.

In fact now I think about it that's more or less how I went vegan originally. I cut out dairy stuff as a temporary thing, and then realised it wasn't necessary at all and that there was no good reason to have it. Slow on the uptake, I know :o

[BlackCats]

In fact now I think about it that's more or less how I went vegan originally. I cut out dairy stuff as a temporary thing, and then realised it wasn't necessary at all and that there was no good reason to have it. Slow on the uptake, I know :o

So did I. I was vegetarian but I cut down on cheese to lose weight for my wedding and then decided to try to be vegan again and read information on the internet (and was horrified!) and then went vegan.:)

[harpy]

I'd actually done some of the reading before and thought I should be vegan but believed it would be "too difficult". Then I had to cut dairy produce out because it started disagreeing with me and I found it wasn't nearly as difficult as expected :rolleyes: That's why I think anything that encourages people to give it a try could be productive, annoying as that article is.

[Declan]

I really don't like the negative light they throw on actual veganism in the first paragraph. Angry letter/e-mail/some form of communication, I feel

[VeganMonkey]

I'd actually done some of the reading before and thought I should be vegan but believed it would be "too difficult". Then I had to cut dairy produce out because it started disagreeing with me and I found it wasn't nearly as difficult as expected :rolleyes: That's why I think anything that encourages people to give it a try could be productive, annoying as that article is.

On the one hand, taking small steps into veganism (i.e. before 6pm only) might be a good way to get people interested without overwhelming them. But on the other hand, the whole article suggests that's it's too difficult and boring and joyless to be a full-time vegan.

Sadly in the end, I don't think there's much positive intent behind the article - it's a superficial endorsement of a fad diet which encourages skinny 'beauty' with no regard for compassion. Surely this is for the same audience that the 'Skinny Bitch' authors cleverly targeted? I'm sure that book has had/ will have a far greater impact than this article (fingers crossed).

[Sarabi]

Also, as VeganMonkey pointed out some of them might decide to go full-time later.

In fact now I think about it that's more or less how I went vegan originally. I cut out dairy stuff as a temporary thing, and then realised it wasn't necessary at all and that there was no good reason to have it. Slow on the uptake, I know :o
Yes, but you never called yourself Vegan Before Dinnertime, did you? I gave up meat gradually, but I didn't say "I'm vegetarian on certain days!" In fact, I deliberately sought a way to convince myself to give up seafood, after giving up red meat and poultry, just because I thought I might as well be able to call myself "vegetarian" if I was already giving up the main two kinds of meat I consumed. If I had had the wrong definition of vegetarian, if wouldn't have mattered.

[twinkle]

Hi twinkle

I hear what you say about Mark Bittman but he seems to be the one deserting we vegans, rather than us deserting him. I think I'd tend to support a food writer who is actually vegan and whose heart keeps her/him pointing in the right (=vegan) direction. Perhaps a letter to Mark Brittman from one of his fans, namely you, might get him to see the error of his ways.

leedsveg:)

I'm not sure I phrased myself very well. The previous book ('How to cook everything vegetarian') before the one this article is based on is the one I think is great, the book the article is based on ('Food Matters') I found very disappointing and a little bit preachy. I don't think he's 'deserted' vegans though (because he has said several times that he's unlikely to go vegan, so he was never with us in the first place), and I do think it's a good thing he makes vegan food more accessible and desireable to non-vegans.

I have many cookbooks by vegan writers, and I have made recipes I've enjoyed from some of them. Howver, I just find the style of 'How to cook everything vegetarian' particularly informative and useful.

I'm not about to write to Mark Bittman. If he wanted to be veg he knows more than enough already to make the step, I don't think some random bint sticking her oar in is going to make any difference to him ;)

[fiamma]

I think the very title "Vegan Before Dinnertime" is offensive to vegans; it's implying that we somehow pick and choose when to be ethical. Alright, so he's talking about diet only, but that's the very thing - veganism is not just about diet! No-one would dream of saying to an orthodox Jewish audience that "eating kosher is too difficult" and proposing "Kosher before Dinner Time and Shellfish After"! :rolleyes:

[leedsveg]

I think the very title "Vegan Before Dinnertime" is offensive to vegans; it's implying that we somehow pick and choose when to be ethical. Alright, so he's talking about diet only, but that's the very thing - veganism is not just about diet! No-one would dream of saying to an orthodox Jewish audience that "eating kosher is too difficult" and proposing "Kosher before Dinner Time and Shellfish After"! :rolleyes:

Totally agree with you, especially "veganism is not just about diet".:thumbsup:
To continue your analogy with kashrut, I could henceforth eat only kosher food but this alone would not make me Jewish in the eyes of the Chief Rabbi. Similarly merely eating a plant based diet does not make a person a vegan.

leedsveg