Angiogram

[Prawnil]

Has anyone had an angiogram? I'm set to have one and it's frightening. It's not for my heart, it's for my brain, but with the same groin entry. Bloody hell.
There's no puking smilie is there?

[harpy]

A friend had an angioplasty, where the entry point is similar but then they put in a stent - he had had a mild heart attack just before, that was why. I asked him what it was like and he said he had to stay in hospital for a couple of days because of the heart attack but "I never felt any discomfort attributable to the angioplasty or stents."

Take it you've read the various patient leaflets, like http://www.rcr.ac.uk/docs/patients/worddocs/CRPLG_01.doc ?

I wouldn't be mad about having this either, but it doesn't sound as bad as one might imagine.

[Prawnil]

Thank you, harpy. I've heard from a few people who've had the same or similar done that it's alright other than the strangeness of the local anaesthetic, including my dad who had about 3 in a row. I'm getting to grips with the idea of it not causing much or any physical pain or much discomfort, but what isn't improving is the anxiety of it being both wakeful and so invasive. Inside & outside are on their way out the window. What that leaves is sort of intense squeamish wiggly feeling.
I have a weirdness about, or sort of phobia of my own femoral arteries, especially of them being touched or disturbed. Nevermind ... uuuh hhuuh ... punctured

[harpy]

I hadn't really thought about my femoral arteries before :eek: Maybe you could come up with some knotty problem to think about while they're doing the procedure? I find medical procedures in general are greatly improved by having one's mind on something entirely unrelated.

Hope it goes OK anyway - perhaps you should report back afterwards in case anyone else has to have one.

[sandra]

Hi Prawnil, I'm sorry I can't give any advice about having an angiogram but I just wanted to say all the best and I'm sure everything will go well for you. :)

I know it's not very pleasant being aware when these things are happening, but by the very fact that you are 'able' to be aware suggests they aren't as bad as we think!
I know an angiogram involves a dye being injected into the bloodstream and in the past I have had this done to me while awake for kidney related illness. I was fine with this and was up and about within minutes of the procedure. Of course I realise this isn't exactly the same thing.
My elderly mother also had a heart pacemaker implanted while she was awake and she was up and about the next day making Christmas dinner for my dad! :eek: :)

I'm sure you will be fine, and from experience I know that worrying about the upcoming event is ALWAYS worse than the actual event! :) xx

[vava]

tell them if they hurt you - you will not be responsible for the fact that you may inadvertently kick them in the chops - that'll sort 'em! Hope it goes ok for you.

[Cherry]

Good luck :)

[Prawnil]

Cherry, vava, sandra, thank you very much :) I think you're certainly right about anticipation, sandra. The angiogram's the least of my concerns.
And harpy, yes, I think I'd be much better off with something distracting on my mind! A horse's dose of Temazepam, maybe.

[harpy]

I don't know whether they normally give you an anti-anxiety type thing first but I imagine they might if you tell them you're feeling stressed about it. (And if you adopt vava's suggestion they will almost certainly shoot you with a tranquilising dart first.)

[vava]

:lol:

[DavidT]

Thank you, harpy. I've heard from a few people who've had the same or similar done that it's alright other than the strangeness of the local anaesthetic

I had an angiogram to help determine the source of pain around my breastbone. It turned out to be (after an endoscopy) a stomach lesion.


what isn't improving is the anxiety of it being both wakeful and so invasive. Inside & outside are on their way out the window. What that leaves is sort of intense squeamish wiggly feeling.
I have a weirdness about, or sort of phobia of my own femoral arteries, especially of them being touched or disturbed. Nevermind ... uuuh hhuuh ... punctured

Anyway, I had a local anaesthetic but, once the procedure started, I panicked, so they put me under straight away. That might be the answer: ask them if you can sleep through it.

You have to sign a form as well (well, I did), absolving them of responsibility...

A neighbour watched his (plus the insertion of a stent) on screen and was fascinated, shudder.

The good thing that came out of my experience: my arteries are 100% clear, something that the nursing staff puzzled over until I mentioned veganism. They had an 'aha!' moment. They were happy then.

Prawnil: I wish you the very best. Let us know how you get on.

[Prawnil]

Thanks an awful lot, David. Angiogram followed by endoscopy? I've heard that's a lovely combination.
I hope your condition is well improved if not at least stable. I try to fool myself that I'm your neighbour there - even in giving blood I'll act normally & hold my tone of voice etc. while feeling that if I stop the intense concentration I'm hiding, I'll pass out.

I hope my arteries match yours! It's an awfully long way for a catheter to go if they aren't (groin to eye level).

[fiamma]

Good luck Prawnil!

[Huddy]

Hope it all goes ok Prawnil. Sending you BIG hugs:)

[DavidT]

Thanks an awful lot, David. Angiogram followed by endoscopy? I've heard that's a lovely combination.
I hope your condition is well improved if not at least stable. I try to fool myself that I'm your neighbour there - even in giving blood I'll act normally & hold my tone of voice etc. while feeling that if I stop the intense concentration I'm hiding, I'll pass out.

I hope my arteries match yours! It's an awfully long way for a catheter to go if they aren't (groin to eye level).

Mine only had to go to as far as my heart. :dizzy:

The condition is dealt with now (though I would happily undergo another endoscopy to confirm that! - it's not as panic-laden as an angiogram) - I had to give up tomatoes for a long time - they're highly acidic - and cut back even further on other acidic stuff. That was tough as I totally adore freshly ground black coffee. Still.

I never got bothered by blood giving, thankfully.

Prawnil, have you got someone to hold your hand? I think I could have coped if I had. I don't know if its allowed, but it should be.

[Gorilla]

good luck Prawnil, i understand how you feel, but as others have said the anticipation is probably worse than the procedure!

when are you having it done?

[Prawnil]

Thanks a lot everyone. I do luckily have someone who would hold my hand, but I'm not sure anyone unecessary is allowed into the suite, since it's radiology.
I'm not sure when, Gorilla (thank you for asking), since I'm waiting for a consultation summary with invitation to book it firmly. I can't stand the idea of medical things waiting for the postal system to move ahead. I do know, though, that it is a prelude to worse.

It makes me feel a bit braver about it to think of it as a duty to be able to describe it fully for anyone sent for one inthe future.

[harpy]

It definitely is your duty, Prawnil ;) Perhaps prefaced with a warning for the queasier members (just thinking about an ex who used to turn green if anyone mentioned the word "aorta" :D).

Hope they don't keep you waiting too long for an appointment.

[Prawnil]

Hello again. I said I would write up the experience, just to sit in the forum archives in case anybody in future due one searches for 'angiogram.'

I'm describing a cerebral angiogram. First of all, If you're scheduled for one you might well have done some searching for other testimonials. I certainly did. I found they were mainly either American or from people at private clinics. Well, mine was at a large NHS hospital and there was one stark difference from what I'd heard and read: I wasn't to be given anything (drugs). Nothing, barring the local anaesthetic in the groin. This way you can talk to the radiologists about what you can and can't feel, & should anything go suddenly awry, staff can be quite sure that it is the operation and not any excess drugs as cause.
No, my experience of it was anaesthetic in the top of the right leg, and told to "try to keep still."

The guidance leaflet warned not to eat or drink the morning of the procedure, but my confirmation letter said different - that eating up until the ward that day was fine. I got to the ward, and changed into my gown and wonderful elasticated paper underpants. The mood was grim since a young woman behind the (so completely private!) curtain of her bed was hysterical with fear about an epidural she was about to be given. Still, after some lying there the radiologist/surgeon arrived to speak to the gentlemen next to me about his cerebral angiogram (again, behind the absolute privacy of a drawn curtain). However, during his talk the radiologist reminded the man of the 1% risk of stroke, "arterial dissection", or death in cerebral angiogram. The guy didn't like this at all and in fact he left to discuss it with his doctor. That left an opening in the schedule for me.
I was anxious when the same radiologist came back for me, and asked if I'd overheard the talk next door. Of course I had, so he offered me the form, like David mentioned. That was the first time I'd signed a form to absolve someone of responsibility for my possible death! He was honest; the period he'd apply pressure to let the puncture close afterwards would be horrible.

Anyway, off I went on a bed with the porters to a miniature ward outside the radio suite, where the staff wear radio-armour. Then into the room (no one is allowed to accompany you).
I was talked through every stage, which began with a surgical sheet with a hole being placed over the area at the top of the leg, my paper underwear sadly being torn open, and the area spread with that weird brown surgical disinfectant. The puncture site was much higher than I expected - I was imagining the inside leg, high up, but it would be the join between that ken-doll abdominal muscle I'd have if I was at-all fit. To be more explicit, a couple of inches right of the base of the penis.
In went the local anaesthetic needle, which I was warned might sting, but in fact, I didn't feel. Then an uncomfortable few minutes while he firmly massaged the anaesthetic into the area. Then in goes the delivery needle, delivery tube/canula, then into that the guide wire. I felt the guide wire about 3 inches up in my abdomen and moaned, then explained. That surprised the radiologist, and he topped up the anaesthetic.
There is no sensation to the guidewire and catheter being fed up to the neck, which was done in no time at all. In a cerebral angiogram the catheter doesn't go any higher than the neck - but the catheter is fed into different branches of the carotid arteries and 2 arteries in the back of the neck, all from the aorta I think.
The noisy grey metal x-ray plate is rotated, angled and adjusted to different positions constantly, and from each angle, the radiologist fed in bursts of contrast dye. This is the strange part. It felt to me an intense spreading heat, but exactly what it felt like was very different depending on which branch of vessels were being injected. In the front, the heat spread into my lips and tongue. In other areas the effect was sparkling lights, but at the back of the head, the dye caused a crackling sensation in the base of my skull (like 'moon dust' or whatever those packets of fizzy sugar crystal sweets are called) followed by an extreme, but short lived pain similar to an ice-cream headache. The deep injections caused my eyes to vibrate side to side violently and I felt I might pass out. Any painful injections were only 10 or so seconds in length. The staff were brilliant.

Once finished, I could turn my head to see the bank of x-ray monitors, which were showing a slide-show of the images: If you're in for an angiogram for a condition you've seen in MRI, angiogram images will make it look a lot uglier. The radiologist agreed, "yes, it's because they're much better!"


The worst part for certain is the period afterwards on the mini ward when the radiologist dropped the bed so that he could get his whole upper body weight through his elbow onto the pucture site and held it for 15 minutes. That was totally unbearable, but the alterative is an open femoral arterial puncture - you'll manage. Back on the ward to stay flat for 4 hours, I got a horrible migraine, which I hadn't had in 2 years.

I walked with a stick for 2 days, and had some nice bruising in all sorts of places they hadn't touched in the area. The bruises were almost gone within 2 weeks (but there's still an unusual lump underneath. Don't know what it is).

Totally overdone, certainly, but just in the off-case someone actually is set for one, I thought I'd be thorough. :smile:

[harpy]

Thanks for the grisly details, Prawnil! It sounds a bit grim in parts, but survivable at least, and worth it I suppose if you need the information it can provide.

[DavidT]

Your experience sounds more traumatic than mine - the fact that I had to be knocked out because I was panicing so much must have saved me the trauma!

I had no trouble whatsoever with the puncture site and could walk fine. I was lucky.

Still, you came through ok Prawnil; did you get any feedback yet on the reasons for the 'gram?

[ellaminnowpea]

Ugh this whole experience sounds awful! My mom has had them, but she was knocked out for it! I can't imagine being awake for something like this.


That was the first time I'd signed a form to absolve someone of responsibility for my possible death!

This is always the scariest part of procedures for me. I tend to get a bit anxious if they feel the need for me to sign my life away!! :eek: But it sounds like you handled it really, really well! I hope you're okay, otherwise.

[Prawnil]

Thank you very much :)

I tend to get a bit anxious if they feel the need for me to sign my life away!!Isn't nice. What was novel and unnerving was lying there thinking "these sights, sounds and sensations are the last things some rare people go through before it all goes wrong..."


did you get any feedback yet on the reasons for the 'gram? I was told it'd go to some committee within the week afterwards. I know it means one of three things now, it's just a simple matter of a follow up consultation - in three months!