[Several multi-question threads, closed]

[Clueless Git]

Answering for Cupid Stunt (I'm sure he will say what he thinks too) Ignorant in that she was not aware that in order to be fully spiritually aware, one must be vegan, and ignorant in her misunderstanding of the Bible.
The fact is that I don't know Queenie ..

I'm ploughing my way through Shabkars 'Food of the Bodhisvatas' at the moment but I now feel inspired enough to get some books on MT and learn some more about her.

My opinion, as it stands, is that MT's state of 'enlightment' is as close to the descriptions of what constitutes the nature of an Aharant as matters and that she was, at the least, a full blown Bodhisattva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva) I have absolutely no personal doubts.

Selfishness is thus virtualy impossible in my mind as far as MT is concerned.

Indisputably (yes, yes, I know that absolutely nothing actualy ever is ...) adopting a vegan diet and opposing the eating of meat (had she fully understood all the ramifications) would have been a tiny thing in comparison to the other personal sacrifices she made on behalf of the poor.

I'm particularly thinking that if the woman had ever fully seen the causual link between meat eating (particularly in the west) and the poverty where she did her work that she would have spoken with the same passion for veganism as she did for the pro-life cause.

I simply have to to assume, in the abscence of more detailed knowledge, that on the meat eating front MT never fully joined up all the dots, as it were.

[Clueless Git]

Because in this instance, she was aware of the fact of suffering but chose to ignore it (because God told her to). Being aware of something but choosing to ignore it hardly comes under the heading of 'ignorance'. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, not having the knowledge but failing to act on it (for whatever reason).

lv;)
This is interesting LV ..

You appear to be putting blind religious belief in the category of selfishness rather than in the category of ignorance?

Frankly I'm a bit torn on this one, insufficient knowledge on my part.

[leedsveg]

This is interesting LV ..You appear to be putting blind religious belief in the category of selfishness rather than in the category of ignorance? Frankly I'm a bit torn on this one, insufficient knowledge on my part.

I don't think you appreciate how significantyour responses are, as I try to understand where you are coming from CS!;)

With respect, you only seem capable of handling the fact of people not choosing veganism, in terms of their ignorance or their selfishness. I suggest at least one other reason, in that someone can have an idea that animals suffer in food production, but because they are informed by a 'higher power' eg God, The Bible, The Pope, Mother Theresa, the Rev Jim Jones (Jonestown) etc that the suffering is of no consequence, then they take any compassion they feel for the animals, no further, "God knows best." I do realise of course that sometimes it's the silence of the 'higher power' in situations, that is taken as guidance eg "Well God didn't say I shouldn't do it, so it must be ok to do it!"

So what am I trying to say? In essence, let's think for ourselves and not just blindly accept what some 'higher power' tells us. I see the core of veganism as following the route of greatest compassion, rather than accepting simple black and white rules which must never be broken.

After all it was you CS who told us that according to the Buddha, we should challenge everything, and not just accept it at face value!:bigsmile:

So do you always go for the route of greatest compassion Cupid?

Sermon over. Happy New Year to all.:lol:

Leedsveg

[leedsveg]

Cupid

I've just seen your posting in the 'pro-life?' thread which crossed with mine in this thread and that does help me to see where you're coming from

[leedsveg]

cont)

Why couldn't you have posted that an hour sooner cos people will now think I'm Mr Badguy?! Also where has the edit function gone all of a sudden?

Leedsveg

[Clueless Git]

Cupid

I've just seen your posting in the 'pro-life?' thread which crossed with mine in this thread and that does help me to see where you're coming from
I would be VERY interested to know which post in the pro-life thread that was LV and which of the many entirely random directions I am coming from that it helped you see?


Why couldn't you have posted that an hour sooner cos people will now think I'm Mr Badguy?! Also where has the edit function gone all of a sudden?

Only a dust blinded mud-muppet would ever get you mixed up with a 'Mr Bad Guy' most estimable matey :)

(With apologies to all those who think LV is Mr Badguy and thus now know themselves to be 'dust blinded mud-muppets', that is, obviously .. :p )

[leedsveg]

I would be VERY interested to know which post in the pro-life thread that was LV and which of the many entirely random directions I am coming from that it helped you see?

Number #214 CS. RubyDuby may have noticed too!;)

lv

[fiamma]

Greetings,
I'm a meat eater

Don't feed the troll!!!

[Korn]

Dear Fiamma,

the Vegan/Non-Vegan discussion section is available for to those among our members who who are OK with discussions with meat eaters - so being a meat eater here doesn't necessarily mean trolling.

Since - when logged in - only members who have joined the 'Vegan/non-vegan discussion' permission group can see these discussion, you know what to do if you don't want to see them. :-)



I don't understand why people here keep entertaining these types of question. They are the same ones asked numerous times by people who have no real interest in the answers.
Maybe (some of?) these posters don't have no real interest in the answers - but many non-registered visitors do. With that in mind, even the trolls help us find out which questions most non-vegans may have... and answer them! :-)

[Korn]

I'll comment some of Jayfoxpox's questions, and hope he'll comment these questions as well.


1)To what extent of intelligence are you willing to eat? Is there a fine line lets say insects or bugs or is it strictly a bacteria,fungi,plant diet?

Vegans don't think one should treat humans or other sentient beings according to how intelligent they are. In my opinion: Anyone who don't want to be killed and eaten should not be killed or eaten - human or not, large or small, smart or not-so-smart. But unless you are into eatings bugs, this question may only have theoretical value... ;-)


4) Let's say an animal leaves a by product that harms it in no way and it's a natural occurrence. Like the shell of an egg ( after chick is hatched) or lets say the skin shedded from a snake. It's not harming it right?

Buying byproducts from people who make profit on exploiting animals still support their business. The word vegan must not be changed in a way so that a vegan or someone with an allergy could order a vegan meal on a restaurant and risk discovering that the owner thinks that meat from roadkill is ethical, and therefore is fine for vegans.

Many vegans and non-vegans use the word vegan as a reference for something which is free from animal products (for various reasons: ethical, religious, allergy-related etc), so this is important. But if you step on and destroy the shell of an bird's egg when taking a walk, there's of course no harm done to any bird, unless eg. in a very theoretical and unrealistic scenario that someone was just about to pick up that shell and use it, but buys an egg instead, and therefore supports the chicken industry with whatever they get for an egg. Theoretical scenarios usually only have theoretical value...


5) Let's say a company trained monkeys to farm. Would the crops be ethical?
Knowing how both humans and animals are treated in many of the countries we get our food from, buying crops from many of these companies could surely be considered unethical. But veganism is about doing one's best: We definitely don't support the idea that if we can't be 100% ethical all the time, we might as well use animal products. We all need food, but don't suggest that all humans should become farmers. Vegans (and many others) generally want to try to avoid supporting companies which treat someone badly.


6) To what extreme would it be ok. For instance, an animal/animal product(harmed) is required to cure w/e disease you have.

Vegans encourage the production of medicine, food, clothes etc. free from animal products. But veganism is about avoiding animal products as much as possible and practical. There is no vegan bible telling us how to behave in all life's situations, so you'll find this particular topic discussed in various threads we already have...

We often get such questions, and I wonder if the posters also post questions to those who exploit animals and ask why they don't test on diseased humans instead of animals (and so on), or ask themselves why they use animal products in all these situations where better options are readily available. Even if all vegans would have belonged to some weird cult which insisted that people should sleep naked, outdoors, even in the winter - you could still easily avoid meat - right? I hope you agree that the important part here what we all do, and not necessarily what we think.


If you live in a house or building, isn't that contradicting the very mindset of vegans? for that same spot where the house was built may have been a home for animals.
Vegans don't at all promote that people shouldn't live in houses. The principle is really simple: avoid harming other living beings as much as possible and practical (read: within reasonable limits). 'As much as possible' could have ended up in some rather extreme situations, which is why the word 'practical' must be in there as well.

Any person who would suggest a lifestyle which would be so strict/extreme that it wouldn't get any supporters wouldn't help anyone, because nobody would follow that lifestyle.

It's important to remember that harming some animal/human in one situation doesn't justify harming human/another animal in another situation. We don't support the idea that the environment is already harmed, so we may just as well keep harming it either, or that 'some ethnical minorities are being discriminated in some countries, so we may as well discriminate them all'. ;-) It's all about being realistic.


1) is your goal to deurbanize and have a more rural like society?
2)Would you then only choose to live in small homes that meet the minimal requirements?
3)Rely less on technology and more on "natural"?
Vegans don't insist that everything 'natural' (poisonous plants, anyone? :-)) always is good or that people should avoid technology. Veganism isn't a religion, and we're not collectively members of some vegan political party. We may discuss the topics you mention, but have many different opinions about them.

Here's my question to you, if you don't mind - since you mention that you do eat meat...
Did you ever decide to eat meat, or did you just start doing it because you grew up with it, and continue doing it because you now of course like meat and eating it has become a habit?

[fiamma]

Dear Fiamma,

the Vegan/Non-Vegan discussion section is available for to those among our members who who are OK with discussions with meat eaters - so being a meat eater here doesn't necessarily mean trolling.

Since - when logged in - only members who have joined the 'Vegan/non-vegan discussion' permission group can see these discussion, you know what to do if you don't want to see them. :-)


Oops - sorry! You're right - my apologies.

[mini_mi]

Because this forum also has a section for non-vegans who are interested in veganism. Members can choose whether to helpfully answer respectful questions or ignore the threads.
I fully agree that someone who is legitimately searching for answers regarding veganism should be responded to. But, if you will notice that the message was the OP's first message and of course he/she has not returned. Second, the questions asked are easily researched as they are almost word for word questions that are asked by non-vegans who are not really interested in the lifestyle but are just stirring the post as they say.

[cobweb]

I fully agree that someone who is legitimately searching for answers regarding veganism should be responded to. But, if you will notice that the message was the OP's first message and of course he/she has not returned. Second, the questions asked are easily researched as they are almost word for word questions that are asked by non-vegans who are not really interested in the lifestyle but are just stirring the post as they say.

I know, but if we all ignore these type of questions there is a risk we might put a potential vegan off the idea. Personally I will respond to questions if asked respectfully, it doesn't take long. You can always ignore this thread if you prefer! ;).

[snowflower]

Hi, this is my first post here, I'm a new vegan, was a vegetarian with very limited amounts of eggs and dairy for the past year and half and am just starting to be completely vegan.... very excited, learning new recipes, etc. :) I am the only vegan or vegetarian out of my family and friends so it would be great to see how other people are eating etc..

Wondering if most of you here take a multivitamin or do you get all your nutrients completely from diet.. also how long did it take you to start eating healthy vs. eating any old junk food that happened to be vegan.. my diet has been mostly junk food (peanut butter and jelly, waffles with vegan butter, potato chips, hash browns etc... the only vegetables I've been eating other than potatoes is the once a day frozen vegetable package out of the freezer with some pasta) which even though its a junk food diet I still feel a million times better than when I ate meat, dairy etc....so I know I'm at least moving in the right direction so far! .... but I've started to run into some nutritional deficiencies so I'm now learning about and reading up on healthy vegan eating and realizing even though its a vegan diet it's still junk food!

So basically wondering anyone here takes a multi or if you were able to give that up once you got used to the nutritious vegan diet with all different healthy foods.. I am excited but feel a bit overwhelmed because I have never really cooked before - vegan or otherwise.. I'm excited to be starting this and also to see what other vegans experiences have been like so far..

[harpy]

Hello - welcome, snowflower. Vitamin B12 and (to some extent) vitamin D are the ones where you might want to take a vegan supplement or find foods fortified with them. If you eat a good mixed vegan diet you should be able to get everything else. There are some websites where you can find out more, e.g. http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/vegan.htm

I always ate quite a lot of fruit and veg (as well as quite a lot of junk!) so I can't really answer the question about transitioning. Frozen veg are fine from a nutritional point of view I think so perhaps you just need to eat a few more of them :) It's good to get a variety of things so maybe make a special shopping trip and stock up with some fruit, salad, nuts, beans etc? You don't need to spend a lot of time cooking - I don't. There are some meal plans and recipes on that VRG site and lots of ideas here as well.

When you say you are running into nutritional deficiencies what exactly do you mean? If you're not feeling well it's probably a good idea to check with a doctor rather than assume it's diet related.

[fiamma]

To be honest I practically never take vitamins, just B12 every so often... And I'm the healthiest I've ever been.
Not saying you should follow my example, it's just that a lot of people new to veganism seem to think they're necessary... I think only you can judge that based on how you feel and how balanced your diet is.

Keep us posted :)

[emmapresley]

could be helpful to take a peek at some of the foody threads in here. the what did you eat today can be a good one to see how other folk are eating for comparison.

variety is supremely good :)

[castagnetta]

Hello, I'm new to here as well.........so hello everyone! My husband and I have been vegan for a long time and recently been to the doctors who after a few blood tests on my husband (as he wasn't well) concluded that his cholesterol level was quite low and told us to eat some Omega 3, do exercise and drink some Pinot Noir! Which we have been doing for the past 2 months and are already feeling the benefits of! We usually buy an all inclusive vitamin supplement for vegans (from Holland and Barrett or our local health food shop), plus have vegan Omega 3 tablets and 2 teaspoons of Flaxseed oil, which is really good!

Hope this helps

[Back-Space]

I do the same thing :p I bought a B12 supplement with 60 tablets in it almost a year ago, and I've still got a good 40 left. But the vegan sausages and burger that I eat are also fortified with it. I'll probably go to the hospital sometime this year to get everything checked out and see how I'm doing, but I feel amazing so I doubt it's needed :p

[snowflower]

Hi everyone.. thanks for all your replies, i'm definately happy to know that it's possible to get your nutrients from a good diet.. i'm starting to read through some of the threads on what everyone ate today, and the recipes... seems like everyone eats some really good sounding food!! i also ordered a book called Becoming Vegan, which got here today so i'm excited to start reading that.. it goes into all the different vitamins, fats, protein etc... i printed out some vegan recipes offline too and made a new grocery list today.. so i'm getting there :)

i have a few other questions about iron supplements and also a good cheese substitute, i will look around the threads and see if i can find any info on those..

thanks for everyone's help :)

[leedsveg]

Hi snowflower and castagnetta, welcome to the forum.:thumbsup: Every day, I take a Vegan Society multivitamin tablet, also I have a spoonful each of molasses, powdered ginger and powdered flaxseed/sunflower seed/pumpkin seed. Also I drink plenty of fortified soya milk.

Leedsveg

[fiamma]

Molasses is a great iron source; just 2 teaspoons gives you half your RDA... :)
Try diluting it in hot water - it makes a pretty good coffee alternative :)

[Tree-climber67]

So, I'm a new vegan. Well, I'm getting there anyway. Getting rid of meat wasn't really hard since I don't like it that much anyway and barely ate it. The milk and cheese, that's a different story. I'm fairly fond of milk and cheese is staple of my diet. I'm very against the animal product industry and I want to get rid of these things from my diet. Its been pretty hard so far. Any tips for a beginner? Also, my dad is very against my recent decision and has laughing at me and has been trying to sabotage me from minute one. I don't know how to handle that one.:undecided: Any help? Please and thank you!lol

[RainInStarlight]

If you give up cheese and milk, (As in completely remove them from your diet all at once.) after awhile your body won't have the hormones from them in it any more..and you won't have the cravings for cheese/milk anymore. So, I would suggest stopping "cold tofu." Also, you could start on some Almond Milk or other nondairy milk if you want something with similar vitamins to drink that is a "white" in color.

Does your Dad fix your food? If he does, than maybe you should have an adult-type conversation with him about your choice, and why he should try to accept your choice to go vegan. He may just be worried about you.

[Winkleplum]

have you tried almond milk? The moment I tried it, I never craved dairy milk again... it is so delicious to me at least :)

A lot of vegan cheese such as "Follow Your Heart" are amazing, seriously I make pizzas at least 2-3 times a week with it, like it way more than "real" cheese

As for your dad, don't worry about it... I have a lot of people in my life like that. Just remember you're the one trying to do the right thing, they are just trying to defend their unhealthy and unethical lifestyle... i really hope you stick with it, don't let them get you down! :)