Meat and cancer

[Hemlock]

I was going to bring this up earlier, but I figured that with the prevailing political wind, admitting to reading the Daily Mail would get one lynched.

Er.........I found the newspaper at work:o

[derwenna]

It was on the front page of the Metro yesterday, I left it out in the staffroom at work and it got people talking at tea break. They didn't just dismiss it as complete rubbish either :). Well, that was one person's first reaction, but then she said she eats Linda McCartney sausages sometimes because they're better for you than meat ones, so there's hope for them yet.

[emzy1985]

I found this on the msn home page. It is interesting that he suggests a full English breakfast without meat. Get rid of the egg and it would be vegan.



In defence of the full English breakfast


A new study has recommended drastically reducing the amount of processed meat in your diet, warning that just one sausage a day raises your cancer risk by 20%. But while the study is full of worthwhile information, it also contains more than a hint of scare-mongering, nanny state-ism and a large dollop of the glaringly obvious.
http://estb.msn.com/i/2A/F9F9756340914166FF93F46826B1A6.jpg

So sausages are bad for you, eh? Thanks for that. And there was me thinking they were an excellent source of vitamin C and antioxidants. Next they will be saying that I should cut down on the amount of heroin I inject into my eyeballs.

Maybe it’s the 10g of saturated fat per pork link, or the lack of any real nutritional benefit, but spending months on a report which tells us that too much processed meat is bad for our health seems to me like a massive waste of everyone’s time and money.

My niece could have told you that. And she’s four.

But that is exactly what the World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF) has done. The organisation’s experts have released a report which claims that eating just 50g of processed meat (the equivalent of one sausage or three rashers of bacon) a day can significantly raise the risk of bowel cancer.

Bowel cancer kills 16,000 people in the UK every year, making it the second deadliest form of the disease. However, as the WCRF goes on to point out, fewer than one in three Brits is aware of these dangers.

Professor Martin Wiseman, an adviser to the charity, said: “We are more sure now than ever before that eating processed meat increases your risk of bowel cancer and this is why WCRF recommends that people avoid eating it.”

Eight ways to spice up your diet (http://style.uk.msn.com/wellbeing/healthyeating/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=7800631)

Processed meats are those which have been preserved by smoking, salting or other additives and include pastrami, ham, salami, hot dogs, hamburgers, mince and, of course, bacon and sausages.

Professor Wiseman continues: “When you consider that eating 50g of processed meat a day can increase your risk of bowel cancer by about a fifth, it is clear that you can make a positive difference by cutting out as much as possible.”

Too much of a good thing
Fair enough. But these points do raise some pertinent questions. First of all, does anyone out there actually eat that much meat? And if you are tucking in to sausages or bacon every day of the week, are you under any illusions that this constitutes a healthy, balanced diet? I doubt it very much.

So while the charity points out that two thirds of the UK’s population is unaware of the link between processed meats and bowel cancer, it is patronising of them to suggest that people are blithely scoffing down sausages and bacon every day while oblivious to any of the health risks.

Of course eating large quantities of these foods is bad for you. So is drinking a bottle of wine every night, though we are repeatedly told that a glass of antioxidant rich red a day is good for the heart.

The most popular food myths (http://style.uk.msn.com/wellbeing/healthyeating/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=7800631)

The WCRF’s study smacks of scare-mongering, whereas surely this is yet another case of ‘everything in moderation’. “The safest amount to eat is none at all,” says Professor Wiseman, but where is the fun in that?

To be fair to the professor, he does go on to say: “We do recommend that people avoid it completely, but it is not a case of all or nothing. Cutting down the amount of processed meat you eat can also reduce your risk of developing bowel cancer.”

Heard it all before?
The WCRF’s shocking revelations that a fat-laden diet could seriously harm your chances of seeing your grandchildren grow up follows another groundbreaking study by the charity, released last year, which said that, er, processed meats can cause cancer.

Meanwhile, one of the WCRF’s other main findings was that small amounts of processed meat raises the risk of bowel cancer by (you guessed it) 20%. And in case you think we are suggesting that the charity is repeating itself, we should also say that they found putting on weight, drinking alcohol and eating other foods such as red meat can increase your chances of developing various types of cancer.

Is nothing sacred?
In light of this piece of research, certain newspapers have of course covered this story with the usual amount of levelheadedness – almost all of them with a picture of a person eating a potentially lethal sausage or staring at it as if it were a stick of dynamite about to go off in their hands.

Fats: good vs bad (http://style.uk.msn.com/wellbeing/healthyeating/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=7326013)

But before you throw away your frying pan or hurl a brick through your butcher’s window, consider the fact that a full English breakfast, one of the great pleasures in life, may not be as unhealthy as some people would have you believe. Sure, if you fry your eggs in lard or keep all the fat on your bacon, then your breakfast contains more saturated fat than is necessary.
However, as the Food Standards Agency points out: “If you grill lean bacon, poach the eggs and include baked beans, grilled tomatoes and mushrooms cooked without fat, and serve it all up with thick crusty bread, you’ll have yourself a delicious cooked breakfast that is also healthy and balanced.”

The red pigment in tomatoes is lycopene, which has been strongly linked with cancer prevention. Cooking tomatoes is also supposed to make them healthier, as this makes it easier for the body to absorb the fruit’s nutrients. Regular sausages, meanwhile, can be substituted for a much healthier vegetarian variety.

Mushrooms are an excellent source of selenium, riboflavin and potassium, while eggs are full of protein, vitamins A, B, D and E, iron, zinc and are low in calories. Studies by Cancer Research UK and the Medical Research Council, meanwhile, have linked baked beans and other high fibre foods to a reduced risk of cancer.

So with the right ingredients and improved cooking methods, a cooked breakfast can actually become part of a healthy, balanced diet. Just don’t go doing it too often, otherwise you’ll never hear the end of it.

[Nyphur]

That rebuttal is dancing around the issue. The report didn't just suggest that processed meat is bad for you, it proved that fact within statistically acceptable limits AND quantified the effect. If his four year old could grasp this scientific concept fully, let alone do it, they'd have to be the smartest child that has ever lived. He's right that the article is alarmist but I think the reason for that is that the writers and general public clearly did not think the effect of processed meat on cancer rates was so bad.

There's a guy in Ireland here that makes sausages himself and sells them. The only processing involved is grinding them up. Everyone knows that they're healthier than the crap full of preservatives you get in Tesco but an article like this shows just how much they are worse for you. What I'd be interested in seeing is a similar study done on non-processed meat from a local butcher. That would show more conclusively if it's the meat itself or the processing that has greatest effect on cancer rates.


And you're right that he avoids the meat issue at the end, going from advocating the traditional full english breakfast to just advocating "a cooked breakfast" where he doesn't even mention meat.

[Pilaf]

I like how they rushed to add the little part in there about red meat "also is a source of valuable nutrients."

I dare them to name one nutrient that's worth eating red meat over, and which can't easily be gained from a vegan diet.

[Mila]

Try telling this sort of thing to the meat industry:
http://veganatheist.com/pics/agreatsnack.jpg
They seem to think that it's "A Great Snack!" Oh, Americans... Will you ever learn?

I took this picture at Walgreens a while ago. I laughed out loud, then got kind of depressed.

[Nyphur]

Try telling this sort of thing to the meat industry:

They seem to think that it's "A Great Snack!" Oh, Americans... Will you ever learn?

That's the thing, it IS an industry. You can't really expect a company to stop advertising their own products.

[Pilaf]

That's the thing, it IS an industry. You can't really expect a company to stop advertising their own products.

Phillip Morris had to...lol

[Mila]

That's the thing, it IS an industry. You can't really expect a company to stop advertising their own products.

Yeah, but a "snack"?? Even for a meatie, this should be seen as promoting an unacceptably bad eating habit.

[Nyphur]

Yeah, but a "snack"?? Even for a meatie, this should be seen as promoting an unacceptably bad eating habit.
It is but the law doesn't, as a rule, stifle advertising of things that are bad for people. There are cases where government intervention puts some dampening on advertising such as with cigarette ads but I've never heard of anything similar done with unhealthy food products. The worst part is that the advertising works, most people that do eat meat don't even realise they eat far far too much of it and that eating it as a snack is so bad for them.

[harpy]

I believe there is talk of restricting the advertising of junk food to children (see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-and-net-face-crackdown-on-advertising-to-children-763944.html).

I suspect when it comes to adult food, people would currently think it was taking the "nanny state" too far, but that could change.

ETA evidence that things change: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMzjJjuxQI :eek:

[emzy1985]

Just a point I thought I'd like to make about the people I work with and the article I posted and his thoughts about people not knowing processed meat is bad for them.

Our work canteen (oh the joys of) sells a fried breakfast every single day. This wouldn't be so bad if the guys were eating it once a week. However someone I work with...I.E my chocolate monster of a supervisor is horrendous. In good faith I decided to record what he ate for an entire day. Now this is typical of the people I work with....well and truely.

BREAKFAST:

Three sausages, two bacon, two fried slices, baked beans, mushrooms, black pudding, two fried eggs and two slices of white toast.

SNACKS:

Two chocolate muffins from MacDonalds

Bag of Crisps

LUNCH:

Sausage McMuffin

Chips

Bar of chocolate

SNACKS:

Bag of crisps

Chocolate bar

DINNER:

Chicken and chips from the chicken shop covered in salt.

You see this is so typical of the guys I work with and they honestly don't think it is bad for them. They eat the same set menu pretty much everyday....all 90 of them. Most are fat and the ones who are not look so under nourished I just wanna give them some tofu and be like, "eat something decent...please I beg you!"

Ignorance, brainwashing and stubborness!

[absentmindedfan]

Most are fat and the ones who are not look so under nourished I just wanna give them some tofu and be like, "eat something decent...please I beg you!"


Funny you should mention this. Most people eating a diet like the one you set out above become overweight. However some people remain undernourished, skinny and ill looking, their body has so few nutrients it cannot hold on to weight - they are at a lot of risk from disease and serious health problems especially later in life. But because our culture thinks skinny=healthy/not skinny=unhealthy these undernourished people who eat crap don't think they're at risk. To the point where I've been compared to skinny, rubbish eating omnis and told that they are healthier than me.

Yeah right. I run half marathons and eat 10 servings of fruit and veg a day, I'd kick their arse in a health check :D

[Holly78]

AMF - I know exactly what you mean. I hate the idea that skinny automatically=healthy. I would probably look 'better' in society's eyes for losing some weight (BTW I am 5'6" and size 10-12 so not exactly overweight) but I would much rather be fit and healthy than thin. Emzy - your work colleagues are heading for early heart disease/heart attacks in their fifties. :(

[Sluggie]

I was surprised by that guy's assertion that people wouldn't eat as much as 1 sausage a day and that everyone knows processed meat is bad for them. I think he is seriously overestimating the awareness of the general population.

[emzy1985]

AMF - I know exactly what you mean. I hate the idea that skinny automatically=healthy. I would probably look 'better' in society's eyes for losing some weight (BTW I am 5'6" and size 10-12 so not exactly overweight) but I would much rather be fit and healthy than thin. Emzy - your work colleagues are heading for early heart disease/heart attacks in their fifties. :(

I am the youngest in my department by almost 25 years. These guys are already in their fifties etc....There is one guy and he is into body building and since I showed him some raw body building videos online he is eating shitloads of raw veg...unfortunately with cooked chicken and fish...but hey that is better than the shit the others are eating.

AMF - I've smoked for 23 years (from the womb), only just given up, only just started at the gym and I'd kick their arses in a health check so goodness knows what you would be capable of.

Sluggie - Another middle class journalist who is out of touch with what the majority i.e the working class understand about diet and nutrition.

[Korn]

Samples of grilled chicken from each restaurant were tested and found to contain PhIPm, a compound from a group of carcinogenic compounds called heterocyclic amines (HCAs), which are often found in grilled meat, according to the press release. It adds that the federal government officially recognized HCA as a carcinogen in 2005, and PhIPm specifically has been named on the California governor's list of chemicals known to cause cancer for more than ten years.

More here (http://www.naturalnews.com/020603.html).


Edit - here's another link about the same (and some related) topic(s):
Grilled chicken contains cancer-causing compounds (http://www.pcrm.org/magazine/gm06summer/fire.html)

[Gorilla]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090324/tpl-uk-meat-death-41a8b2f.html

People who eat the most red meat and the most processed meat have the highest overall risk of death from all causes, including heart disease and cancer, U.S. researchers reported on Monday.

The National Cancer Institute study is one of the largest to look at the highly controversial and emotive issue of whether eating meat is indeed bad for health.

Rashmi Sinha and colleagues looked at the records of more than 500,000 people aged 50 to 71 who filled out questionnaires on their diet and other health habits.

Even when other factors were accounted for -- eating fresh fruits and vegetables, smoking, exercise, obesity -- the heaviest meat-eaters were more likely to die over the next 10 years than the people who ate the least amount of meat.

"Red and processed meat intakes were associated with modest increases in total mortality, cancer mortality, and cardiovascular disease mortality," Sinha and colleagues wrote in the Archives of Internal Medicine.

They divided the volunteers into five groups, called quintiles. Between 1995 and 2005, 47,976 men and 23,276 women died.

The quintile who ate the most red meat had a higher risk for overall death, death from heart disease and cancer than the men and women who ate the least red meat.

The researchers said thousands of deaths could be prevented if people simply ate less meat.

"For overall mortality, 11 percent of deaths in men and 16 percent of deaths in women could be prevented if people decreased their red meat consumption to the level of intake in the first quintile," Sinha's team wrote.

HELPING THE ENVIRONMENT

Many studies have shown that people who eat less meat are healthier in many ways, and Sinha's team noted that meat contains several cancer-causing chemicals, as well as the unhealthiest forms of fat.

The U.S. government now recommends a "plant-based diet" that stresses fruits, vegetables and whole grains.

Barry Popkin, an expert in nutrition and economics at the University of North Carolina, said the study was unusually thorough and careful.

Eating less meat has other benefits, he said, and governments should start promoting this. For instance, farming animals for meat causes greenhouse gas emissions that warm the atmosphere and uses fresh water in excess, he said.

"I was pretty surprised when I checked back and went through the data on emissions from animal food and livestock," Popkin said in a telephone interview.

"I didn't expect it to be more than cars."

Cancer experts said the study fit in with what is known from other research.

"This large study provides further evidence to support the recommendations by groups such as the World Cancer Research Fund in demonstrating an association between a high consumption of red and processed meats and a increase risk of death from cancer," said Ian Olver, Chief Executive Officer of Cancer Council Australia.

The meat industry denounced the study as flawed.

But American Meat Institute executive president, James Hodges, said: "Meat products are part of a healthy, balanced diet and studies show they actually provide a sense of satisfaction and fullness that can help with weight control. Proper body weight contributes to good health overall."

[Damon]

I am killing myself with laughter here. :)

"....satisfaction and fullness... can help with weight control.... contributes to good health overall...."

Seriously? Is that the best he can do? Apparently so! :D Bad for animals, bad for people, bad for the world.... welcome to the future... it's vegan green. :)

[rianaelf]

Well what do they expect from eating a dead animal :eek:

I read in the metro today that red meat was bad and people should eat chicken instead !!

*is speechless*

All they care about is their health, they don't care about the animals :sad:

[jimmeh]

People who eat the most red meat and the most processed meat have the highest overall risk of death from all causes

Er....I would have thought that a human being's "risk of death" is 100% anyway?

[Stu]

I read in the metro today that red meat was bad and people should eat chicken instead !!

That's actually from the same study.

The overall conclusion being drawn, appeared to be that one should eat a small amount of meat.

[Risker]

All causes? Even getting struck by lightening?

[harpy]

Er....I would have thought that a human being's "risk of death" is 100% anyway?

I'm glad you said that! I was trying not to be forum pedant again :o

[jimmeh]

I'm glad you said that! I was trying not to be forum pedant again :o

Interesting study, bad journalism :D