Children 'Harmed' by Vegan Diets

[jhodgski]

What's also strange is that she uses the word 'unethical' to describe the vegan diet - as if her intention is to counter every plus point of the veganism... so not content with stating that an omnivorous diet is somehow healthier than a vegan diet, they also have to make out that eating meat is the right thing to do for ethically-minded people as well.

As *M* said, Paul McCartney was on the radio discussing it, and also a guy from PETA was, but neither of them managed to raise/emphasise the point that the control group in the study was a group of malnourished Africans. I feel a bit disappointed that none of the points being stated in this thread were said on the radio programme.

[John]

Yes, it's odd that the experiment wasn't performed on actual vegans.

Wow, she proved that giving two ounces of meat a day to African children "raised on diets chiefly consisting of starchy, low-nutrition corn and bean staples" is better than giving them nothing. Alert the press!

Great work Lindsay Allen, of the US Agricultural Research Service!

[Kevster]

Fairly balanced piece from The Guardian.... better than what The Independent has to offer, which is basically a whole loads of scollops and no critical comment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,2763,1419386,00.html

Raising children as vegans 'unethical', says professor

Sarah Left
Monday February 21, 2005

A leading US nutritionist today claimed that vegetarian and vegan parents are damaging their children's health by denying them meat.
UK experts immediately contested the findings of Professor Lindsay Allen, of the University of California at Davis, and Sir Paul McCartney told the BBC that the claims were "rubbish".

Prof Allen conducted a study of impoverished children in Kenya, and found that adding as little as two spoonfuls of meat a day to their starch-based diets dramatically improved muscle development and mental skills.

Speaking at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, in Washington DC, she said: "Animal source foods have some nutrients which are not found anywhere else.

"If you're talking about feeding young children and pregnant women and lactating women, I would go as far as to say it is unethical to withhold these foods during that period of life. There's a lot of empirical research that will show the very adverse effects on child development of doing that."

Prof Allen was especially critical of parents who imposed a vegan lifestyle on their children, denying them milk, cheese, eggs and butter, as well as meat. "There's absolutely no question that it's unethical for parents to bring up their children as strict vegans," she said.

Sir Paul, a vegetarian for 20 years, telephoned the BBC to dismiss the claims as "rubbish", telling the BBC Radio 2 Jeremy Vine show: "I really do think this is rubbish. I think the medical profession itself, apart from this one person, come to the conclusion that a veggie diet is good for you and can help with colon cancer and stuff, so I suspect these things are engineered by livestock people who have seen sales fall off.


"From my own point of view, it has been a good thing for me and my children, who are no shorter than other children."

However, the British Dietetic Association said the study looked at impoverished, rural children with a poor background diet low in essential nutrients such as zinc, B12 and iron, and its findings were not applicable to vegan children in the developed world.

"There is no evidence that our vegan and vegetarian children in this country suffer impaired development," a spokeswoman for the association said.

She said Prof Allen's assertion that some nutrients could only be obtained from animal sources was incorrect. Even vitamin B12, which is only found in animal products, was used to fortify vegan alternatives such as Marmite.

Vegetarians could obtain sufficient calcium from sesame seeds, nuts and fortified soya milk, and iron from dried fruit and fortified breakfast cereals, the spokeswoman added.

The African study involved 544 children in Kenya, typically aged around seven, whose diet mainly consisted of starchy, low-nutrition corn and bean staples lacking these micronutrients. Over a period of two years, one group of the children was given a daily supplement of two ounces of meat - equivalent to roughly two spoonfuls of mince.

Two other groups received either a cup of milk a day or an oil supplement containing the same amount of energy. The diet of a fourth group was left unaltered.

The changes seen in the children given the meat, and to a lesser extent the milk or oil, were dramatic.

Prof Allen, the director of the US Agricultural Research Service's Western Human Nutrition Research Centre at Davis, said: "It was found that, compared with controls that had no intervention, the meat group had 80% more increase in muscle mass over the two years of the study, and the milk and energy group had 40% more increase in muscle mass.

"In terms of cognitive function, the group that received the meat supplement showed the biggest improvement in fluid intelligence over the two years, and those who had either milk or energy supplements were better than the controls. The group that received the meat supplements were more active in the playground, more talkative and playful, and showed more leadership skills," she said.

Test scores for mental skills improved by 35 points for the meat group and 14 for the milk, while remaining unchanged for the children who received no supplements, she said. Adding either meat or milk to the diets also almost completely eliminated the very high rates of vitamin B12 deficiency previously seen in the children.

"It's important to know that these important benefits to human function and human capital were seen in just two years," Prof Allen added. "Had these children received these foods earlier in life, or their mothers received them when they had been pregnant, or people could receive them throughout their lives, we think that the improvements in human capital development would be even more dramatic."

She said that, although the study had been conducted in a poor African community, its message was highly relevant to people in developed countries. Studies of vegetarians in both the US and Europe had shown that missing out on meat and dairy products could permanently impair a child's development.

Liz O'Neill, the head of communications at the Vegetarian Society, is seven months pregnant with her first child, and said nothing in Prof Allen's research had dissuaded her from the intention of raising her baby as a vegetarian.

"This study should not scare any parents in this country. It's just not relevant," Ms O'Neill said. "Certainly a balanced vegetarian diet will be much healthier than the average meat-eater's diet. As soon as you take something out of your diet, it makes you stop and think about how to replace what is missing."

However, Dr Alastair Sutcliffe, a senior lecturer in paediatrics at University College London, said human ancestry showed that natural diet includes meat and that a diet inclusive of meat was likely to produce a taller, stronger child.

"Whilst I respect a person's ethical decision to eat a vegan diet as an adult, it should be very carefully considered if that is the right decision for a child," Dr Sutcliffe said. He said he believed a vegetarian diet including dairy products would probably be fine for children.

The British Dietetic Association spokeswoman said the study raised the important point that pregnant and breastfeeding women and young children were vulnerable as vegans, and that parents should carefully review their children's diet to ensure they were eating a well-balanced diet.

However, she dismissed as "extreme" Prof Allen's assertion that feeding children a vegan diet was unethical, and recommended parents read the nutrition guides available from the Vegetarian Society to help them plan a balanced diet.

[Kevster]

Good publicity though, should generate some debate, and hopefully get vegan ideas over too. Sort of like how Fox Hunting has stimulated some broader consideration of animal welfare/rights/liberation.

[gertvegan]

The Jeremy Vine show as mentioned can be listened to again JUST HERE (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/) . Click on Monday (oddly). Its 1hr 45 mins into the programme, and very brief. I think you can usually listen again for 7 days.

[gertvegan]

And following the article that started this thread, the bbc posted what they say to be comments that reflected the balance of opinion they have received on the topic of Are vegan diets harmful for children? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4283585.stm)

[jhodgski]

And it's bloody annoying - there's still so much misconception and ignorance.

[Atlanta Newbie]

Very biased and annoying article written by an associate of the "US Agricultural Research Service", which is an arm of the United States Department of Agriculture. Can you say conflict of interests??

You can provice feedback to the BBC at http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_3990000/newsid_3993900/3993927.stm

I did!

[Kiva Dancer]

Amazing how you never hear of a McDonald's diet child having health-impacting deficiencies, but yet put that same child on a plant-based diet and suddenly, it's all about deprevation, denial and how it "harms health".

There are no emoticons fitting for the anger I feel just now.

I shall be giving feedback to BBC about this article, believe it.

I would love to see Concious Cusine, eve and feline *all* unleashed on this "vegan diet authority". What a sight that would be! *evil grin*

[Hasha]

I second that! :mad:

[kkev]

i dont think the research was even about vegan diets. from what i can tell on the links on the bbc website, prof. allen was talking at a symposium on nutrition in devloping countries. the research she was talking about was to determine what would be the best food to add to a malnourished kids diet. there was another speech at the meeting which talked about food diversity being the key to good nutrition, not animal based foods.

so it's got nothing to do with people on a vegan diet, no serious scientist would make those claims from that research...

[Gorilla]

The Vegan Society have dedicated the front page of their website to countering the claims made by Professor Lindsay Allen. EDIT: i have copied the article below, as it probably won't be there forever. the website itself is HERE (www.vegansociety.com/html/)

Dear Friends,

The Vegan Society (est. 1944) has seen an increase, year on year, of people moving over to plant based nutrition, in preference to ‘recommended’ diet by Professor Lindsay Allen. The vegan diet shatters the usual perceptions, can provide you with more energy, nutrition, and is bursting with goodness. This is most important for growing children.*The most common concerns are about the following:

Omega 3 - Animal sources cause all sorts of problems such as accumulation of mercury, which may counter any benefits from the omega-3.* No such problem with plant sources such as rapeseed (canola in US), linseed or flaxseed oil and leafy green vegetables.
Calcium - Available from most foods.* Calcium deficiency is not really an issue provided you get enough food.* This particular point is dependant on whose definition of an adequate intake you use - most Westerners are calcium deficient by US standards. Osteoporosis is not so much a disease of calcium deficiency but of calcium loss.* Be careful about exaggerating this one. The very high calcium intakes recommended in the USA are to counter high losses due to high protein and salt intakes and low physical activity.* The World Health Organisation says much lower intakes are adequate in other countries.

B-12 - No animal produces B-12, it comes from bacteria, which they consume. The Vegan Society recommends taking 3 microgrammes of B-12 per day.

Protein - Too much protein is the problem for most western countries.* Plant sources of protein are low in saturated fat, kinder to the environment, healthier and cheaper in real terms to produce.

Iron - Plenty in plant sources including grains, beans and leafy greens.*

Brain and nervous system development - Omega 3 is of course essential, but plant sources such as linseed and rapeseed oil are safer, cheaper and sustainable whereas fish, meat and dairy products are none of these, especially in the developing world.*

Saturated fat - Half the saturated fat in the British diet comes from dairy products. The government would like us to halve our saturated fat consumption.* Even if you drink skimmed milk, the fat skimmed off just goes into pies, cakes etc so someone ends up eating it. No such problem with soya milk.* Walter Willett said: Once the cow is milked, the fat is in the food supply and someone ends up eating or drinking it. Dairy and meat are rich in saturated fat, plant based diets are low in it. The government is advising people to eat more wholegrains, beans, vegetables* and fruit and less dairy and meat, in other words the more vegan food you eat the better.

Fish - There is not enough fish in the world for everyone to eat it.* The cod (off Newfoundland) has been fished out.* There is one third as much cod in the North Sea as in 1975.* In West Africa, fishermen are going further and further out to sea as factory ships clean out the oceans.* In addition, fish is full of PCB's, dioxins and mercury which can affect brain development so that doctors recommend not eating it every day. No such problem with plant sources of essential fatty acids, which are cheap, safe, and there is an inexhaustible supply.

Even Dr Benjamin Spock, America's top childcare expert, says do not give cow's milk to babies.* Human breast milk is the best food. Dairy is the most common childhood allergy.
Developing world farming issues - Forests are being cut down for meat farming and to grow animal feed, much of it for European and Chinese factory farms.* A plant based diet uses a fifth, as much land as a meat based one, there simply is not enough land for everyone in the world to eat like Americans, and why would anyone want to when you see the devastating effect that such a diet has on our health.

Impact of dairy and meat based diets - The introduction of factory farming to provide cheap meat, milk and eggs was followed by an epidemic of heart disease, cancer, diabetes and obesity. Switching back to a largely or completely plant based diet is a cheap and effective way to be healthier.

Abolition of four food groups - America has abolished the four food groups (meat, dairy, fruit and vegetables, grains) after lobbying by doctors and replaced them with a food pyramid based on whole grains and vegetables.* The Vegan Society believes it's time we got rid of the outdated four food groups in Britain too and moved to a diet based on whole grains, vegetables, pulses and other non-animal foods. The government's own Health Education Council is also recommending we eat more of these foods.

McLibel - As the judge in the McLibel trial agreed, meat and dairy products are cruel and unhealthy. They are bad for animals, bad for the environment and bad for you and the easy solution is to eat more plant-based foods.

We would be interested to learn who provided the financial backing for Professor Lindsay Allen’s research.

Kostana Azmi
CEO

[Gorilla]

Viva have also posted their side of the argument on their website. EDIT: i have copied the content of the article below in case the link is removed at a later date. the website itself can be seen HERE (www.viva.org.uk/mediareleases/pr2005/05-12kids.htm) :cool:

Media Release
21 February 2005; For immediate release

Vegan Children Some of the Healthiest in the World

The BBC is failing in its supposed role as a public service broadcaster, says the Vegetarian & Vegan Foundation (VVF), after giving widespread publicity to a seriously flawed, unscientific piece of propaganda claiming that vegan children risk damaging their health by excluding meat.* The claim, made by Lindsay Allen of the US Agricultural Research Service, was given prominent billing by BBC News on-line and featured on the Jeremy Vine show and Ken Bruce shows on BBC Radio 2. It concerned Paul McCartney so much that he made a rare phone-in to the Jeremy Vine show.

One meaningless study on 544 malnourished children raised chiefly on a starchy, low-nutrition corn and bean diet has no relevance to children in the West says Tony Wardle, Associate Director of the VVF. Yet it commands major media coverage with almost no counterview, despite having been made by the organization which supports and promotes the mass factory farming of animals.* This is not good journalism and it is extremely bad public service broadcasting.

The VVF reports regularly on the growing volume of science showing the link between animal products and the collapsing health of our children and is largely ignored. Sensationalism is clearly more news-worthy than science.* The truth is that meat, dairy are junk foods are destroying our children's health. The facts are:

Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the lifecycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and adolescence. Appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.* These certain diseases are the killer epidemics of today - heart disease, strokes, cancers, diabetes etc. **
This is the view of the world's most prestigious health advisory body, the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada, after a review of world literature. It is backed up by the British Medical Association:
Vegetarians have lower rates of obesity, coronary heart disease, high blood pressure, large bowel disorders, cancers and gall stones.
The World Health Organization thinks similarly: Diets associated with increases in chronic diseases are those rich in sugar, meat and other animal products, saturated fat and dietary cholesterol.

[Spiral]

It's good to see that the AR societies have reacted to this study quickly, but getting the counter argument across in the mainstream media is another thing. They don't seem quite so keen to report our side of things.

Peta's campaign saying giving meat to your child equals child abuse.

http://www.peta.org.uk/feat/childabuse/

[gertvegan]

'My children eat well and are very healthy'

Laura Smith, Tuesday February 22, 2005, www.guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1419829,00.html)

Lucy Barnett, 34, a classroom assistant, lives with her husband David, 41, a welder, and their children Daniel, 12, and Charlotte, 10, in Stuartfield, Aberdeenshire. The whole family became vegan eight years ago.

"I became vegan before the rest of the family, mainly because of cruelty to animals. I had suffered from endometriosis since puberty but within three weeks of giving up meat and dairy products, it was gone. I had so much more energy, I lost weight.

"The rest of the family went vegan six months later. My children were already vegetarian and at that age - four and two - they weren't aware of much difference. As they've got older I've made it clear to them that it's up to them, but to my knowledge they have stayed vegan. I don't tell them anything too shocking, but they probably do know more about animal cruelty and health than their friends.

"I wouldn't say it's particularly difficult. Obviously it requires some thinking about at the start and you have to work out which products are good and where to find them. But mostly I still cook the same things I used to cook - spaghetti bolognese, curry and rice, baked potato with salad and couscous, burgers, chips and beans - just using different ingredients.

"We have been lucky with the children's schools and it's never been an issue. They usually take packed lunches but where they are now there are lots of other vegans and the school actually provides vegan meals a few times a month.

"Far from missing out, I would say they have benefited. My son had been incredibly hyperactive, but since giving up meat and dairy products he has calmed down considerably.

"He also used to have a lot of upset stomachs and those have gone. I notice that both of them have fewer colds than their friends. I think the findings of this study are nonsense. It was funded by the meat and dairy industry in the US, so it was probably geared to find this result."

[l337_v3g4n_1]

I was reading throught the comments of an article someone here posted, it goes like this:
If you are worried about animal welfare, buy organic meat.
Steve, London, UK

WTF? how is it animal welfare if you are KILLING the animal???

[Cloudy]

Mate, if you quoted every stupid comment off the BBC's website you'd be here a long time ;)

[l337_v3g4n_1]

yeah... anyway, I sent this into the debate:


Cow's milk is not natural, nor is it healthy to humans. It is specially designed for calves, which have four stomachs. What other mammal steals milk from other mammals and drinks it when they are even over 80 years old? Tell me, please.
As you might have noticed, carnivores are excellent hunters with claws and sharp teeth. Can you keep up with a running bull, if you can, can you hunt it wit your bare hands and kill it by ripping it's throat out? Nope. hardly natural then is it?
And about the forcing your beliefs on you children, that is rubbish, feeding them ANYTHING is technically forcing your beliefs on them, so is restricting them anything at all, or giving them anything at all.
Veganism is a very healthy lifestyle, many people have been raised vegan from birth and do not suffer from any "defects" or "malnutrition". Even raw vegans live quite healthy lives.
If you have never seen a healthy vegan check outt a common search engine called "google", using the keywords "vegan" and "healthy" Or you can get to know a vegan who looks into his/her food and knows how to get proper nutrition.
This should have cleared up a few things, if you are VERY intersted in knowing more you can contact me at neptunus.e@gmail.com

enough, or should I send a bit more? ;)

[MzNatural]

I was reading throught the comments of an article someone here posted, it goes like this:
If you are worried about animal welfare, buy organic meat.
Steve, London, UK

WTF? how is it animal welfare if you are KILLING the animal???
I saw that one yesterday and wondered the same thing. ;)
I did have a man ask me, "So, would you go back to eating animals if you found a local organic farm that raised animals?” I asked him did he think those animals wanted to be killed. ;)

I like your avatar 1337, very cute! ;)

[l337_v3g4n_1]

:D
I like it too. Made by an italian (see the what do we look like thread)

[Atlanta Newbie]

Thank heaven for a voice of sanity.

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/mccartney%20attacks%20antiveggie%20research

[Gorilla]

Here's another article, from Vegsource (www.vegsource.com/articles2/ncbs_vegan_study.htm) disputing the relevance of Dr Allen's findings and linking the study to the meat industry, which i can't say i'm surprised about :rolleyes:

National Cattlemen's Beef Association pays
for Anti-Vegan "Study"

2/22/05 - They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Well, it's even more dangerous when it's wearing a lot of "respectable" titles.

In one of the most irresponsible and flat out ignorant statements of recent days, Dr. Lindsay Allen, currently of the US Agricultural Research Service, told the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) that a vegan diet was so lacking in necessary nutrients that it is tantamount to child abuse.

Was this based on carefully conducted research? No. Was it based on structured study with control groups and meticulous monitoring of what children ate? No. Was it perhaps based on a large number of children eating a normal vegan diet who were found to have a greater than usual risk for illness? No. Her basis for this bizarre and completely unfounded declaration was her experience in Africa. Children who had been eating nothing but corn and beans were given a little meat and their health improved. Not children on a normal, healthy vegan diet - children who had been eating nothing but corn and beans. Adding almost anything to their diet would have caused improvement.

Just eating beans and corn isn't an accurate representation of a vegan diet any more than it's an accurate representation of a kosher diet. So what do you find when you look at children who are eating a normal vegan diet?

Children raised on fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes grow up to be slimmer and healthier and even live longer than their meat-eating friends

Vegetarian and vegan diets can be a healthy way of eating for all age groups

Vegan diets can easily meet the nutritional needs of the growing child.

So why, then would a USDA representative make such a ridiculous claim? Could the many and strong ties between the USDA and the meat industry be one reason?

To find another, one need only look to who paid for this "study" -- none other than the National Cattleman's Beef Association.
Surprise surprise.

One of the more appalling aspects of this is that they are experimenting on starving children. These are kids who are clearly starving, they are not eating a "vegan" diet but a starvation diet. And yet like the Nazis who experimented on human prisoners, these meat industry "researchers" don't feed the starving, they don't give them enough food, they do some weird pro-animal food experiment to try to twist it into a political point to help the bottom line of the meat industry. Why is the meat industry experimenting on starving children in Africa? If Lindsay Allen, the meat industry's front person, tried to set up a sadistic experiment like this in the US, experimenting on impoverished children, she would probably be tried and convicted of crimes against humanity. These are truly sick, ethically-challenged "researchers."

Vesanto Melina RD comments:
I was called by the BBC to respond to the story "Children 'Harmed' By Vegan Diets". I am co-author of "Becoming Vegan", by dietitians Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina, distributed in the UK by Airlift books; www.airlift.co.uk.

Lindsay Allen, of the US Agricultural Research Service had done a study in which providing animal products such as butter, cheese, milk, and meat improved the health and growth of impoverished and undernourished Kenyan children. Professor Allen failed to recognize that an assortment of plant foods that were nutrient rich and higher in protein and calories would have helped too. The findings from this study are not applicable to vegan children in the developed world.

In our book "Becoming Vegan" we explain how to create a balanced and nutritionally adequate vegan diet. Everyone doesn&rsquot automatically know to do this properly, and certainly the authors of this study didn't. Whatever diet people use to raise their children, they typically need to learn a few nutrition pointers and tips about feeding children properly. For vegan diets this is particularly true as most vegans were not raised on this diet. But research has shown that it can be done and result in children of same height and weight statistically as the norms (though there tend to be fewer obese children among the vegan population.) Whatever their dietary choice, pregnant women and children are more vulnerable than people at other stages of the life cycle because of their fast rate of growth. It makes sense to take extra care in planning a nutritionally adequate diet for these stages.

It is not true that animal products contain essential nutrients that are not found anywhere else. Animal products are unique sources of certain substances such as cholesterol. However dietary cholesterol is not essential; we make what we require in our bodies and too much may be a risk factor for disease. Vitamin B12 comes from bacteria and is present in animal products as a result of bacterial contamination. Properly designed vegan diets contain vitamin B12 from fortified foods or supplements. Vegans obtain sufficient calcium from fortified soy milk, calcium-set tofu; sesame seeds, almonds, blackstrap molasses, white or black beans; and greens such as kale; bok choy, Napa cabbage, and broccoli.

Professor Allen's assertion that feeding children a vegan diet was unethical is unfounded, and reflects the fact that Professor Allen does not know how to create a nutritionally adequate vegan diet. Considering the risk factors related to in a diet high in animal products, it can be viewed as unethical to feed your child a diet high in animal products, and to set your child up for a future that increases his or her risk of various cancers, cardiovascular disease or diabetes.

Vesanto Melina, MS, Registered Dietitian Langley, B. C. Canada
http://www.nutrispeak.com.

[l337_v3g4n_1]

Right on!

[Michelle]

I just remembered my coworker/friend telling me about a barbecue she attended where parents where feeding a 4-month old barbecue ribs, corn and soda. Of course, this friend also told me that her 1 year old daughter doesn't like meat, prefers fruit and veg, but they're forcing her to eat some since it's the social norm.

WTF??? To a 4-month old??? Good grief--and we're the bad ones :confused:

[l337_v3g4n_1]

yes

we are truly evil