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veganmike
Sep 7th, 2004, 08:57 AM
http://www.animalconcerns.org/external.html?www=http%3A//www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/29978.htm&itemid=200409061051230.545294

Artichoke47
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:25 PM
How's that for making vegans look insane?

"Shunning" clothing? LOL Nice play on words.

This gentleman could have handled the situation better. :(

wuggy
Sep 7th, 2004, 06:42 PM
Oh dear!

John
Sep 7th, 2004, 07:23 PM
The scariest part was George Bush's smiling face all over the page. :eek:

Hasha
Sep 7th, 2004, 10:12 PM
Now, let's not jump into conclusions here! Although the article represents the vegan movement as dangerous fanaticism, it does not exactly tell us that the child was taken away from his parents because they were trying to raise him vegan. I'm under the impression that the real reason was the child's poor state of health, what looks like malnutrition to me. Perhaps the parents were indeed not feeding him properly... And if that is the case, then these parents are doing a great disservice, not only to their child, but to the vegan movement as well. Of course, all parents need to make sure that their children are getting all the nutrients that they need. But vegan parents really need to make sure that that is the case. I mean, children get sick as a result of their diet, adults die as a result of a poor diet every day. If they happen to be meat-eaters, that is usually interpreted as bad luck, bad genes, what not... With vegans, and people on non-conventional diets in general, whenever something goes wrong, people automatically assume it's their diet. So vegans are responsible for making sure that, whatever happens to their or their children's health, the diet is really not to blame. People will assume that it is the diet even when it's completely unrelated, so we really don't want to give them any real ground for their argument.

Having said all that, I must say that this article did scare me. I don't really plan to have children, but who knows... Maybe this child really was taken away from his parents simply because the judge was prejudiced against veganism...

Gorilla
Sep 7th, 2004, 10:20 PM
how about this for a more balanced view of vegan parents, from my local newspaper:

www.thisisbrightonandhove.co.uk/brighton__hove/health/CHILDCARE2.html

foxytina_69
Sep 8th, 2004, 12:09 AM
awe that was a nice article.

assilembob
Sep 12th, 2004, 07:42 PM
On a totally non-vegan board there is a thread for vegetarians/vegans and the people were saying that they would report child abuse for trying to force a child to be vegan...that is was cruel...
Sometimes I hate humanity. We can be so stuipid and blind.

Hasha
Sep 12th, 2004, 09:16 PM
Geez! Such things really scare me. Anyway. If I ever do have children, I'd better make sure it's in some pretty liberal place, otherwise you never know. Hell, you never know anyway! Know what else really scares me? If I get sick some day and land in hospital, will I be forced to choose between eating meat or starving? People say that it's up to you what you eat. Yeah. If you're a healthy, independent adult. But what if you're not?

John
Sep 12th, 2004, 10:27 PM
Is there anyone advocating the removal of obese children from their homes? Not that I in any way support that. Of course not. These people don't give a damn about the health of any children. They only want to be right.

Hasha
Sep 12th, 2004, 10:38 PM
Is there anyone advocating the removal of obese children from their homes? Not that I in any way support that. Of course not. These people don't give a damn about the health of any children. They only want to be right.

I completely agree. But that doesn't mean that such attitudes aren't highly disturbing and even dangerous.

eve
Jan 13th, 2005, 06:28 AM
I wonder if you have seen this article?
http://www.rawfriends.com/andressohns.html

tails4wagging
Jan 13th, 2005, 07:58 AM
Ye, gods!!!!!!. My friend has problems with the medical lot here in the Uk regarding her veganism, and her views on child rearing (she has two). makes you think if she would have the same trouble if she followed that families diet!

PinkFluffyCloud
Jan 13th, 2005, 07:58 AM
Oh my God! That is monstrous! :mad:

Hasha
Jan 13th, 2005, 08:29 AM
I am speechless.

feline01
Jan 13th, 2005, 04:27 PM
I had chills down my spine from reading this. I am definitely making a donation after I get paid next week. This is not an isolated incident, it is happening more and more often in the US because of ignorant beauracrats, overzealous prosecutors and biased media. My husband just got into a verbal argument with a woman at a health food store about us raising the babies as vegans. He did not handle it very well and I told him we need to work on what we are going to say when people who disagree with veganism confront us. All it takes is one phone call to child protective services and we immediately lose custody of our children!!! Terrifies me.

PinkFluffyCloud
Jan 13th, 2005, 09:00 PM
My mother actually wrote to my doctor once, saying that I 'wasn't coping' with my son (this was mainly due to the fact that I refused to answer the phone to her because she was constantly ringing to criticise my parenting!!). She also stated that she thought my husband was a poor father, and that we were not treating our son properly because we weren't feeding him a 'normal' diet!! :eek:
Luckily for me, I had a good patient/doctor relationship with my G.P, and, unbeknown to my lovely Mother, he was also a Vegetarian too, along with his wife and 3 kids! :)
He told me about the letter, because he felt I had a right to know. I still shudder to imagine what might have happened if I had had a different doctor (or I lived in the U.S.A!!). :rolleyes:

Tofu Monster
Jan 14th, 2005, 12:23 AM
shit that really is an incredibly sad story eve.

eve
Jan 14th, 2005, 09:08 AM
I told him we need to work on what we are going to say when people who disagree with veganism confront us. All it takes is one phone call to child protective services and we immediately lose custody of our children!!! Terrifies me.
Working out what you would both say, is a wise move. Hopefully it would never arise, but it is as well to be prepared in case some idiotic bureaucrat decides to ask you about a vegan lifestyle for the children.

MzNatural
Jan 17th, 2005, 10:37 PM
I had chills down my spine from reading this. I am definitely making a donation after I get paid next week. This is not an isolated incident, it is happening more and more often in the US because of ignorant beauracrats, overzealous prosecutors and biased media. My husband just got into a verbal argument with a woman at a health food store about us raising the babies as vegans. He did not handle it very well and I told him we need to work on what we are going to say when people who disagree with veganism confront us. All it takes is one phone call to child protective services and we immediately lose custody of our children!!! Terrifies me.

Scary isn't it feline01? I prepared myself for misinformed people and the questions I might receive when I became Vegan. I read another family story similar to this a few months ago. :mad: It is sad but a lot of people are misinformed when it comes to eating differently from the Standard American Diet. How awful that this happened this family.

I believe a lot of vegetarians read more about nutrition, when it comes to their children, because they want to know they want to make sure their children are healthy. I have quite a few books, articles based on raising vegan children. Jade is a lot healthier than a lot of children her age. I make sure she has nutritious meals.

veganblue
Jan 18th, 2005, 05:11 AM
I have to admit to a degree of scepticism. It is sad if it is true but I would want a great deal more confirmation before sending off money to an organisation that has a slick presentation like this, requesting money. The raw food discussion included on the site insists on describing enzymes as life force in food which is comparable to magical properties.

These are some of the referrences I could find on the case.

Herald.com (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/6848323.htm?1c)

Familynightmare.org (http://www.familynightmare.org/) There seem to be several web sites devoted to this case and hosted by proponents of the raw food industry.

Critics roast raw food diet (http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/6313706.htm%3ftemplate=contentModules/printstory.jsp) This link is an interesting read and contains many of the elements of the raw food debate.

While I respect the choice of an adult to eat raw food for as long as they want; when an adult not only suggests that the medical profession cannot diagnose nutritional deficiency and puts the lives of children at risk, it is very hard for me to believe that there is a conspiracy at work.

eve
Jan 18th, 2005, 06:09 AM
wish you made a precis of your posts, as I get bored long before getting to the end. BTW, I notice there's a copyright logo there. Does that refer to what you posted? If so, did you get permission to reprint it?

Artichoke47
Jan 18th, 2005, 12:52 PM
I feel for the family but I hardly think it's appropriate to ask people you don't know for money over the internet. I could see if people OFFERED money, but they are basically asking for it.

Vora
Jan 21st, 2005, 10:44 AM
Sure, the story is terrifying, and I hope something like this will never happen in my country... It would be a real attack against our lifestyle choice liberties and our rights.
But, as veganblue, I'm a little dubitative on the truth of this particular story... all this merchandising stuff for the donations sounds too awkward to be really honest... But maybe I’m just paranoid…

gertvegan
Jan 21st, 2005, 02:11 PM
New Defense In Baby Death

Jan. 20, 2005, www.cbsnews.com (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/20/national/main668225.shtml)

A new lawyer stepped in with a defense that could turn around the case against two parents charged with manslaughter of their baby, who was allegedly malnourished.

Defense Attorney Ellis Rubin says a birth defect, and not the baby's diet of uncooked fruits and grains, is to blame for the death of a Florida couple's infant daughter Woyah.

Joseph and Lamoy Andressohn face manslaughter charges in the death of five-month-old Woyah, because the Miami-Dade Medical Examiner's Office concluded that the child died from malnutrition. Authorities say the baby was fed only wheat grass, coconut water and almond milk.

But Rubin says the autopsy found the child's thymus gland was almost nonexistent. He says that defect is responsible for the infant's low weight at the time of death. Rubin says the prosecution is "right out of the Twilight Zone."

Rubin is a well-known attorney in the Miami-Dade area, particularly for his recent work on behalf of same-sex marriage, which he supports. He said he has a pathologist lined up to testify that an infection likely caused Woyah's death.

Outside the courtroom, the Andressohns said there was no neglect, saying they loved their baby and their four other children.

A judge set a May 31st trial date, but next month will consider defense requests to allow the parents to resume contact with their other children.

Woyah weighed 6.99 pounds at death, about the same weight her mother told investigators the baby weighed when she was born at home. Doctors say a full-term baby should have weighed about 15 pounds at 5 months.

"That's because of the missing thymus gland," Rubin said.

Lamoy Andressohn also disputed the low weight claim, saying her daughter had five different, conflicting weights.

Prosecutors did not immediately return a call Thursday to respond to Rubin's assertions.

Two Florida Department of Children & Families caseworkers were fired in connection with the Andressohn case, when it was revealed the couple had been the subject of prior abuse complaints by neighbors. But Rubin says the DCF visits are indications his clients passed state muster. Their other four children were removed by the state after Woyah's death and placed with relatives.

"There was no neglect," Joseph Andressohn said. "We love our children, we know they're waiting for us."

The Andressohns denied officials' claims about Woyah's diet, saying she received "freshly made" foods whipped up in a food processor instead of food "by Gerber."

Along with holding to an uncooked food philosophy, investigators found the Andressohns had strong beliefs in home schooling, doctors only in a necessity, no immunizations and enemas for all.

The couple is currently free on $75,000 bond. If convicted, they face up to 30 years in prison.