Are meat eaters' arguments really getting this bad?

[rrqu]

I was in class the other day, and we had to write a paper on the environmental effects of eating beef. I chose to show the bad environmental effects, being vegan and all. The rest of the class showed why it was good (with invalid arguments) to eat beef. They said, cows release a greenhouse gas into the air, and killing them prevents the greenhouse gas. However, if there weren't so many cows bred to die so lazy people can eat them, those greenhouse gases wouldn't be a problem. I got a C, despite a very well-typed essay, and the majority of the people who put why it was good to eat meat got an A. I swear to you my essay was just as good, if not better than their essays!

I suppose I could've posted this in the "Things Meat Eaters Say" thread, but I was dying to create a thread plus I want everyone to know I'm here :D

Ok, today I'm going to talk to the teacher and see why she gave a C. I looked at some of my friends' essays and they obviously were graded on the content. This is ridiculous, I'll keep you guys posted. It's a science class BTW

Woohoo!!! Thank you for the suggestions guys!! I went talk to the teacher about it and she said she thought I had an invalid argument. After that class, I went to the principal and asked him. He said it was wrong that I got a C and eventually my grade got changed to an A!

[adl]

That's awful. Could you bring it up with your teacher? Maybe you could bring in your references (print them out, bring in the books, etc.) and show your teacher how they're more reputable than the meat eater's sources.

[Tofukitty]

Really sorry to hear about your mark. I would be interested to know, if it was me, if the mark was given because of the writing or because of content. Maybe by going back to teacher and asking what about the writing was lacking, and if the answers given by the teacher don't add up, you might just have a case. Maybe even get a second opinion from another teacher, preferably one that doesn't know your teacher.

I wouldn't get your hopes up though, it sounds as though even if your low mark was a result of content, you'll be fighting an uphill battle with people who have no intention of changing their meat eating ways.

[harpy]

Hello there rrqu.

I think teachers should always give you feedback on your work, not just a score. So perhaps you could politely ask your teacher to explain where you lost marks and what you can do to improve your paper next time. Maybe there were valid reasons for marking it down and maybe there weren't. Either way, the answer could be interesting.

[kokopelli]

Even Jeremy Clarkson reckons a cow produces as much greenhouse gas a year as a Range Rover doing 25,000 miles. Don't your fellow students and teacher realise that cattle that are killed for meat are constantly replaced, so eating them doesn't solve the problem, it just creates more demand? Haven't they seen those aerial photos of feedlots and slurry lagoons? It sounds as if they need some education!

[Manderin]

I agree with Harpy, you should ask your teacher why you got the mark that you did. If it was a result of simple writing mistakes, then just try to do better next time and no harm done. If, however, it was a result of content, then you should definitely bring it up with the school. I'm not sure if your teacher would tell you if you got the grade for content, though...

[Barry]

If the grade was due to content and not the result of some other errors on your part, then it's absolute and utter crap. Climate change was part of my geography course in college, and our lecturer (who was an omnivore) spelled out in no uncertain terms just how damaging beef (and all meat) was for the environment. Of course as vegans we all know this already, but it sounds like your teacher is pretty poor, this stuff is universally accepted and taught in colleges all over the world. So if (and only if!) the grade was based on your content, I'd challenge this grade. Either way, any teacher that's giving out A's for papers that assert that eating beef has a positive effect on the environment, needs to be removed from their job.

[harpy]

I suppose it depends a bit what the course is - forgot to ask that!

If it was English or something I can imagine giving a good mark for a well-argued and well-written paper in support of a perverse point of view (although it doesn't sound as if these were very well-argued). If it was environmental studies or biology then... it just sounds weird. As Barry points out even die-hard omnivores are usually aware of the environmental implication of current meat production (though some of them will argue for grazing animals on mountain land that couldn't be cultivated etc)

Please let us know if you get any more feedback, rrqu.

[kokopelli]

If it was environmental studies or biology then... it just sounds weird. As Barry points out even die-hard omnivores are usually aware of the environmental implication of current meat production (though some of them will argue for grazing animals on mountain land that couldn't be cultivated etc)

Actually here in Wales, the Welsh Assembly is attempting to minimise acknowledgment of the climate change impact of meat production, to justify continued public funding of animal farming and encouraging meat exports to the rest of the world. Wales is set to export lamb to China, a potentially inexhaustible market, which will stimulate intensified mountain grazing. The denuding of upland tree cover by over grazing sheep leads to increased flood risk throughout the watershed. So the actions of Welsh sheep farmers will affect everyone downstream, for example, throughout the Severn and Wye Valleys.

[harpy]

I didn't know about that kokopelli - though I'm not altogether surprised :( Is there much opposition to it, e.g. from environmental groups?

[Korn]

Are meat eaters' arguments really getting this bad?
Were their pro meat arguments ever any better than they are now? :)

[Barry]

Actually here in Wales, the Welsh Assembly is attempting to minimise acknowledgment of the climate change impact of meat production, to justify continued public funding of animal farming and encouraging meat exports to the rest of the world. Wales is set to export lamb to China, a potentially inexhaustible market, which will stimulate intensified mountain grazing. The denuding of upland tree cover by over grazing sheep leads to increased flood risk throughout the watershed. So the actions of Welsh sheep farmers will affect everyone downstream, for example, throughout the Severn and Wye Valleys.

That's outrageous! Not very surprising though I suppose. The government in Ireland would probably take to murdering children if they thought it would help Irish meat exports.

[harpy]

That's outrageous! Not very surprising though I suppose. The government in Ireland would probably take to murdering children if they thought it would help Irish meat exports.

You are Jonathan Swift and I claim my five euros.

[Dzrtrat]

I'm glad your grade went up, some people try to outsmart common sense. I think I would try to talk to the teacher again and ask why they felt you didn't bring up an argument...

[harpy]

Have only just noticed the update to your posting after reading Dzrtrat's comment, rrqu - sounds like a result, glad justice was done.

Did your teacher mention why she thought the argument was invalid? Either way, I'm not sure I'd necessarily labour the point with her at the moment as she might be feeling miffed about getting overruled by the principal - I daresay there will be other opportunities though.

[Barry]

Woo Hoo! Well done rrqu, a victory for common sense. And as for you Harpy


You are Jonathan Swift and I claim my five euros.

Shhh, it's meant to be a secret...

[kokopelli]

I didn't know about that kokopelli - though I'm not altogether surprised :( Is there much opposition to it, e.g. from environmental groups?

Sorry it's taken me a while to reply, harpy. The news about the exports to China is quite recent. It's been trumpeted as a great achievement by the Assembly in the farming press, but I haven't noticed much coverage elsewhere yet. One problem I foresee is that Welsh sheep farming is so depressed, struggling to compete against imports from New Zealand, and domestic lamb consumption is in decline (I believe), so politically it probably seems like a godsend. Large areas of mid Wales depend on sheep farming and the income is chronically low. A more logical solution would be to invest in alternative futures for hill farmers.

[Stillwater]

rrqu, that's absolutely appalling. I don't know what other arguments were used, but the one about killing cows reducing greenhouse production is absolutely idiotic. I can believe that one of your fellow students mightn't see the logical flaws in that, but I can't believe that your science teacher didn't. I just want to say that I think it's really great and impressive that you questioned your mark all the way up to the principal. Going against the grain of the whole class must have taken guts, and I don't know if I would have done it when I was in school. I'm glad you got the A in the end. Good job.