The moral philosophies of veganism

[Physiologist]

If you could answer my questions and give reason as to why you answered in that manner, I think that it would really help in understanding the reasoning of the vegan movement. Some of the questions are obviously far-fetched, however, by applying moral/ethical/philosophical beliefs or ideals to these scenarios, it would help to understand these beliefs.

My first scenario:

If you a were caught in remote area with no access to eatable plants (Yes I know the unlikelihood of this), would you kill and eat a small rodent if it would mean the difference between your life and death?

Second scenario:

If the animal had already died of natural causes in the same situation would it make any difference?

Third scenario:

What about if someone else was with you and killed the animal. Would you help eat it?

Fourth scenario:

Would you kill an animal to save another 1000 animals? What about for two animals?

Fifith scenario:

Would you eat an an animal that had already been slaughtered to save another 1000 animals?

Sixth scenario:

Would you kill an animal in self-defence or in the defence of another?


Cheers,

Francis

[Korn]

If you could answer my questions and give reason as to why you answered in that manner, I think that it would really help in understanding the reasoning of the vegan movement.
I have to disagree here, because what vegans think/feel/do in a normal life situation doesn't necessarily define what s/he would do in an emergency situation or abstract situation which in no way resembles the actual life s/he is living.

Many of us have heard the kind of questions you raise for years - not from people who really are interested in going vegan, or reduce suffering/save the environment as much as possible or even improve their health... these questions are usually asked by people who have decided that they won't go vegan anyway, but hope to find 'holes' in our logic, so to speak.



If you a were caught in remote area with no access to eatable plants (Yes I know the unlikelihood of this), would you kill and eat a small rodent if it would mean the difference between your life and death?

This is a typical example of a situation/scenario which - whatever answer people would give - have no value in terms of understanding real life veganism. Whether I would reply yes or no, that answer wouldn't affect my choices living a normal life with access to plants food/ingredients.


If the animal had already died of natural causes in the same situation would it make any difference?
Same as above, but if you actually feel any urge to eat a dead dog, cat, deer or other animal that may have been killed by a car, I think you should do it, because as you wrote (in the part I deleted), you eat meat regularly anyway. Many vegans would probably rather call a friend and tell them that there's some 'free meat' on the highway instead than eating it, since letting a meat eater know about this could reduce his other consumption of commercial meat for some days or weeks.


What about if someone else was with you and killed the animal. Would you help eat it?
I don't know what 'helping' someone to eat something means, but vegans don't eat meat. The disgustingness of having seen the animal being killed wouldn't change this. Would you 'help' someone eat human meat if you were visiting a cannibal tribe and someone you were with had killed a human?



Would you kill an animal to save another 1000 animals? What about for two animals?
Vegans don't kill tigers and lions, even if this would save the lives of many plant eating animals. But again: these hypothetical scenarios don't reveal anything about our or your reasons for eating or not eating meat.


Would you eat an an animal that had already been slaughtered to save another 1000 animals?
See above.




Would you kill an animal in self-defence or in the defence of another?

I would have done that if this was the only way to save my life or the life of my family members/friends/others.

But since we have you here, maybe you can help us understand why meat eaters eat meat in normal, daily life scenarios even if they live is countries where delicious vegan food is accessible almost everywhere? I've tried for many years now to find a good/valid argument pro eating meat, but haven't found one single answer to the question ever. OF course people 'like' meat (they are trained to like meat, and used to it), but that's a different story. Smokers may like tobacco as well, but that doesn't mean that smoking is a smart or good thing to do.

Here's a long list of common comments from meat eaters: Which of these comments from non-vegans have you heard most often? (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?3024-Top-50-Comments-from-non-vegans)

Please enlighten us with good/valid reasons pro eating meat that we never have heard before!

[Physiologist]

I have to disagree here, because what vegans think/feel/do in a normal life situation doesn't necessarily define what s/he would do in an emergency situation or abstract situation which in no way resembles the actual life s/he is living.

Many of us have heard the kind of questions you raise for years - not from people who really are interested in going vegan, or reduce suffering/save the environment as much as possible or even improve their health... these questions are usually asked by people who have decided that they won't go vegan anyway, but hope to find 'holes' in our logic, so to speak.


Firstly I would like to stress that I am not trying to pick an argument or even argue that a meat-based diet is better. From the my studies, I have seen that a perfectly acceptable diet is possible with a little bit of foresight. This is very obviously attested to by the fact of your very existance.

I was perhaps a bit short in my explaination of why I wanted to ask an these questions. I am not asking them to try and take a pervese enjoyment out of attempting picking holes in someones beliefs and what they feel strongly about and I apoligize whole heartedly if I came across like that. To the contrary, having never talked with a vegan about how they feel about the topic, I know very little about the vegan movement. I came onto this forum to try get an insight from you why you do what you do.

The reason that I felt my questions have some relevence is because by answering them it seemed to me that it would allow quite an insight to the rationalization of veganism by actaul vegans. For instance by equating the eating of eating meat with cannibalism made it very clear to me how you feel about the topic. Similarly, by pointing out that vegan do not go about killing tigers to prevent them from killing other animals also demonstrated that the vegan movement is against nature so to speak, but rather arguing that it is disordered in nature for humans to eat meat. Also, the answer to the last question confirmed that, despite what some meat eaters have told me, vegans do not consider humans as having less rights than animals, but rather in this case question, very sane and fair as to what our relationship with animal is.

Having considered that matter further, I can see that asking such questions could promote quite strong emotions just the same as indiscriminately asking people on the street situations involving cannibalism. And it probably unfair of me to ask for an academic answer from perfect strangers especially in the light of the constant attacks you would get from people who disagree with you.



But since we have you here, maybe you can help us understand why meat eaters eat meat in normal, daily life scenarios even if they live is countries where delicious vegan food is accessible almost everywhere? I've tried for many years now to find a good/valid argument pro eating meat, but haven't found one single answer to the question ever. OF course people 'like' meat (they are trained to like meat, and used to it), but that's a different story. Smokers may like tobacco as well, but that doesn't mean that smoking is a smart or good thing to do.

Here's a long list of common comments from meat eaters: Which of these comments from non-vegans have you heard most often? (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?3024-Top-50-Comments-from-non-vegans)

Please enlighten us with good/valid reasons pro eating meat that we never have heard before!


On a similar topic, as I said in the deleted part of my original topic, I am heavily involved in animal research paticulary with regards to respiratory function. I believe that the test I do on animals go to towards creating new medical techniques to help those suffering from respiratory disease. My personal opinion is that the wellbeing of the people to whom the treatments are directed to towards are more important than the animals in the lab. However, test are only done on animals when there is absolutely no way that research data could be obtained in any other way.

With regards to the eating of meat, I can understand your point about the liking of a habit does not mean that it is a correct and proper behaviour to engage in. the main reason that I have never tried smoking is I am well aware of the risks of emphysema, COPD, cardiovascular disease, and lung cancer to name a few. Combined also, with the dislike of taking substances that have a psychological effect. Athough there is some empirical evidence for increased cardiovascular disease, there are very little, at least in the personal sense, issues with eating meat. I presume this makes it a issue of whether it is a good or smart thing to do in the sense of the rights or personhood of animals. My opinion put plainly and unequivocally is that the killing and consuming of animals is not wrong. Therefore, as I like meat, I continue to do so.

With regard to the issue on a global scale rather than at a personal level, cellulose makes up more than half of all organic chemical energy. The only animals capable of efficiently utilizing this energy is the ruminants. If ruminants were not a major part of the human diet on a global level, the energy available for consumption to humans would effectively halve. Taking account of the shocking statistics for the number of people starving in the world, and taking a look at what the diverting of crops to biofuels has already done to exacerbate this issue, I would predict that world wide starvation could be the only result. In countries such as Haiti were the siuation is already terrible, I can't even begin to comprehend what it would be like. Especially as the more developed nations would be cushioned by this because of their wealth, leaving the brunt of it to these countries.

I must admit that there is a possibility that maybe the increased production of less cellulose based plants could reverse this somewhat, however I haven't looked into that possibility. Although my guess would that it wouldn't help as soil quality has to be higher for this type of harvesting.

Finally, I thank you for allowing me to discuss these issues with you, and once again apologize for any offence I might have caused you.

[leedsveg]

42?


lv

[Clueless Git]

If you could answer my questions and give reason as to why you answered in that manner, I think that it would really help in understanding the reasoning of the vegan movement. Some of the questions are obviously far-fetched, however, by applying moral/ethical/philosophical beliefs or ideals to these scenarios, it would help to understand these beliefs ...

Cheers,

Francis
I'll have a go for you Francis :)


My first scenario:

If you a were caught in remote area with no access to eatable plants (Yes I know the unlikelihood of this), would you kill and eat a small rodent if it would mean the difference between your life and death?

That scenario leaves no option for both myself and the rodent to live. I have to chose who dies, me or the rodent. I cannot choose life for us both.

I prioritise whichever is the cleverest out of me and the rat and hope that the rat is not a grandmaster of chess.


Second scenario:

If the animal had already died of natural causes in the same situation would it make any difference?

In that scenario I have to decide if I die as well as the already dead rat.

I attempt resuscitation of the rat and 'accidentaly' take a nibble whilst giving it the kiss of life.

Third scenario:

What about if someone else was with you and killed the animal. Would you help eat it?

Same "eat the rat or die yourself" scenario as before?

Again cleverest life form is priority and that appears to be me and the chap (or chappess) who already outsmarted the rat.

Fourth scenario:

Would you kill an animal to save another 1000 animals? What about for two animals?
A daily quandry everytime I pass a McMurders, Kentucky Fried Cruelty, etc, that one is ...

Anyone with the means to take the lives of the blood thirsty dogs who feast their faces in such filth pits would save scores of innocent lives for every guilty life they took.

Tempting it is but we have to resist ...

Fifth scenario:

Would you eat an an animal that had already been slaughtered to save another 1000 animals?

No.

The principle of veganism being seen to have a trade off level could cost far more lives than that.

Sixth scenario:

Would you kill an animal in self-defence or in the defence of another?
Yes I would kill an animal, human or other, in my own defence or in defence of another human animal.

No I would not kill a non human animal in defence of another non human animal.

As to whether I would kill a human animal in defence of a non human animal ...

Well, now we're back to that temptation that must be resisted everytime we see some ignorant pig of a human animal munching on the dead flesh of a non human animal again.

[Festered]

If you could answer my questions and give reason as to why you answered in that manner, I think that it would really help in understanding the reasoning of the vegan movement. Some of the questions are obviously far-fetched, however, by applying moral/ethical/philosophical beliefs or ideals to these scenarios, it would help to understand these beliefs.

My first scenario:

If you a were caught in remote area with no access to eatable plants (Yes I know the unlikelihood of this), would you kill and eat a small rodent if it would mean the difference between your life and death?

I can't answer.
Second scenario:

If the animal had already died of natural causes in the same situation would it make any difference?
Yes

Third scenario:

What about if someone else was with you and killed the animal. Would you help eat it?

Fourth scenario:

Would you kill an animal to save another 1000 animals? What about for two animals?
Yes, no.

Fifith scenario:

Would you eat an an animal that had already been slaughtered to save another 1000 animals?
Yes
Sixth scenario:

Would you kill an animal in self-defence or in the defence of another?
Yes, if I could, and if I had no moral attachment to the one I was against and did against the one I was defending.
I would also kill another human in defence of someone I loved.

Cheers,

Francis

[sandra]

Hi Francis, just insert the words 'human beings' instead of 'animals' in your questions and you'll get some idea of how strange these questions are. :)

For example, here is your first scenario..........

'If you a were caught in remote area with no access to eatable plants (Yes I know the unlikelihood of this), would you kill and eat a small rodent if it would mean the difference between your life and death?'

Now insert the words 'human being' instead of 'animal'............

'If you a were caught in remote area with no access to eatable plants (Yes I know the unlikelihood of this), would you kill and eat a small human being if it would mean the difference between your life and death?'

Now Francis, answer that. :)

[harpy]

I'm with Sandra on the whole, although I did enjoy the one about giving the rat the kiss of life and accidentally taking a bite.

[sandra]

:)

[leedsveg]

I ask myself why Francis has no apparent interest in the everyday life of vegans but only asks about our reactions to extreme situations. Such questions leave me seriously unimpressed and I can easily identify with the comments Korn has made.

leedsveg

[maggielassie]

Hi Francis, just insert the words 'human beings' instead of 'animals' in your questions and you'll get some idea of how strange these questions are.I agree with you, Sandra.

[Clueless Git]

Now insert the words 'human being' instead of 'animal'............
That does actualy put the abhorence that a vegan would feel at having to eat an animal into a context that all but the very most muddiest minded of meat eaters might understand.

Big nods to you Sandra for that :)

Unfortunately it leaves the answer to each question as being equaly interesting, or not, dependant on what you find interesting, or not.

Quite clearly I am still a bit of a 'speceist' as, whilst I might eat a rat to survive, if it were a human for lunch I think I would rather die.

[leedsveg]

Quite clearly I am still a bit of a 'speceist' as, whilst I might eat a rat to survive, if it were a human for lunch I think I would rather die.

Bit of apple sauce and some roast potatoes and you'd soon change your mind and be tucking in with the rest of the survivors....


lv

[Clueless Git]

Bit of apple sauce and some roast potatoes and you'd soon change your mind and be tucking in with the rest of the survivors....


lv

Apple sauce AND roast potatoes you say? Hmmmm ...

Next time the cupboards are a bit bare (a 'survivalist' situation, clearly?) I might try roasting one of my kids ...

:satisfied:

[leedsveg]

Apple sauce AND roast potatoes you say? Hmmmm ...

Next time the cupboards are a bit bare (a 'survivalist' situation, clearly?) I might try roasting one of my kids ...

:satisfied:

I'm shocked CS. I would have thought that you would have volunteered yourself before your offspring. Of course you being a mature person and perhaps a bit "gamey" when eaten, we would need to ensure that you were "well-hung" before we cooked you. Ooh er!:evil:

lv

[sandra]

lol
What are you two like? :D

[fiamma]

And my answer to all the questions is... *yawn*... oh my, I don't know what happened there! Just can't seem to keep my eyes open... :zzz::zzz::zzz:

[Tish]

If you a were caught in remote area with no access to eatable plants (Yes I know the unlikelihood of this), would you kill and eat a small rodent if it would mean the difference between your life and death?
If there were no plants then there would be nothing for the rodent to eat either so I would probably just try to befriend it and we could be company for each other whilst waiting to die. You mention it is a small rodent so it wouldn't provide much sustenance and would only provide me with a couple of extra days to live- therefore, on balance, it is definitely better for me that my last act on earth is one of kindness rather than killing. The rodent wouldn't need much to eat though so if my friend wanted to eat I'm sure I could spare a bit of my little toe or something then he could "go on without me" as they say in the movies!:lol:


If the animal had already died of natural causes in the same situation would it make any difference?
Yes, it would- I absolutely, definitely wouldn't eat it. If you have ever smelled rotting rodent you'll find they are somewhat malodourous. Also, I think maggot eggs get laid in there pretty quickly so even if you think you're just getting rodent you may get a surprising 'maggot explosion' centre filling.:p


What about if someone else was with you and killed the animal. Would you help eat it?
I'm sure they wouldn't need any help to eat it. Also I don't have any problem telling them I'm vegan so I'm sure they wouldn't be offended if I was unable to break bread (rodent) with them on this ocassion :).


Would you kill an animal to save another 1000 animals? What about for two animals?
I don't really know in what instance this could happen? If it was some kind of evil megalomaniac setting me a test then I could work with the animal I was meant to kill to get it to fake death, get all the animals freed then me and my co-conspirator/new animal chum could just leg it out of there. Of course these types of villians do not always hold true to their word so he/she may decide to kill the animals anyway in which case we would just need to usurp said dictator and hand him/her over to the authorities. I think this would be easy enough as there are 1,002 of us and one of him/her.:bigsmile:


Would you eat an an animal that had already been slaughtered to save another 1000 animals?
No, I wouldn't eat it. I believe there are always many ways round a problem- we've just saved 1,000 animals already without any deaths/eating of flesh (see above)- let's make this another success! Hee!!


Would you kill an animal in self-defence or in the defence of another?
I think like Sandra says in this thread you can easily replace the word animal with human. So it really depends on the situation and you wouldn't really know how you would react until placed in this situation. Again, I think there's always other solutions to situations. If I was attacked by an animal it may be because I am near its young and I am a threat. It would probably have given me prior warning before it resorted to an attack as it is a big risk for it to put its life in danger and potentially leave its children orphaned. So I could probably take the warning in the first instance and remove myself from the situation.

I daresay animals are attacked far more often by humans than the reverse. For example, you can read newspaper reports of bulls killing matadors who are trying to kill them. I guess this is the survival instinct that we all have. Overall, veganism is about not killing and not harming so no-one here really wants to do anything like that and hopefully would not be in any situation where they would have to even consider it.

[Korn]

For instance by equating the eating of eating meat with cannibalism made it very clear to me how you feel about the topic.
Hi again, I'm not really equating the eating of eating meat with cannibalism, but vegans often stress that the life and suffering of an animal is as important for that animal that a human life/human suffering is for a human.




Similarly, by pointing out that vegan do not go about killing tigers to prevent them from killing other animals also demonstrated that the vegan movement is against nature so to speak
We are against nature because we do not kill tigers? Is a 'not' missing here?





but rather arguing that it is disordered in nature for humans to eat meat.
There's no 'official' vegan viewpoint that eating meat is disordered for humans. Some vegans feel/think that eating meat is contrary to human nature, others think that 'natural' doesn't matter, while others again suggest that humans may or may not eat but, but focus on the fact that we just don't need to, let alone want to do it.


And it probably unfair of me to ask for an academic answer from perfect strangers especially in the light of the constant attacks you would get from people who disagree with you.Frankly, with two or three single exceptions, I rarely see any attacks from non-vegans. Most of them are curious, and some have questions. But constant attacks? Not at all. :-) However, the reason we sometimes delete/shorten questions from non-vegans in this section, is that we don't really need to hear all the details about how much meat they eat, that they love beef or how many animals they have killed.

I haven't responded to what you write about animal testing. Maybe others will.


Athough there is some empirical evidence for increased cardiovascular disease, there are very little, at least in the personal sense, issues with eating meat.
You should read more about the side effects of eating animal products - and could, for instance, start with the hundreds of posts in our Are Animal Products Healthy? (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?139-Are-animal-products-healthy) subforum.

Veganism didn't start out as a way to improve our personal health. On the contrary, an essential part of being vegan is that we think empathy with humans and animals is essential if we want to make the world a better place to live.



the killing and consuming of animals is not wrong. Therefore, as I like meat, I continue to do so.

So you are essentially saying that if you happen to like the taste of another living being's body, you don't really care if it suffers or dies for your taste buds? There must be hundreds, no - thousands of meals eaten in various countries that you have never tasted; they may be delicious, but I don't think there's a general feeling that we just have to eat everything we 'like'. Our likes and dislikes also change as we try new things. And, to use the cannibal example again - children of cannibals probably liked the taste of human meat as well. Does that really have anything to do with their 'right' to kill humans? I agree that taste is important, and that for most people, much more important than eg. ethics. The dilemma for every non-vegan who haven't tried all the tasty vegan meals he could have tried, is that he (you) can't really compare the taste of good vegan food what they (you) currently are used to eat. Even if you feel a need to eat everything that may be delicious, the 'taste argument' isn't really impressing, unless you have tried a lot of Thai, Mexican, Italian Indian etc. vegan food and disliked it all. A 5 year old kid may refuse to change his eating habits because he thinks that he doesn't like other food than his dad and mum makes, but for an adult "I like meat" is in my opinion zero percent valid as an argument for not going vegan.

Of course you like meat. Life just becomes more interesting if we're capable of growing up, expanding our horizons and try things we may like a lot more than what we've grown up with.




The only animals capable of efficiently utilizing this energy is the ruminants. If ruminants were not a major part of the human diet on a global level, the energy available for consumption to humans would effectively halve.
Are you aware of the fact that when we eat meat, a lot more land, water and environmental resources are needed to first raise an animal, then kill it, and then eat the animal - compared with just growing plants that humans can eat in the same soil?




Taking account of the shocking statistics for the number of people starving in the world, and taking a look at what the diverting of crops to biofuels has already done to exacerbate this issue, I would predict that world wide starvation could be the only result.
Is the fact that all this soil, both in rich and poor countries, are used to feed animals, so they can be killed an eaten by humans afterwards, instead of being used to grow rice, legumes, fruit and vegetables that could be eaten by poor/starving humans part of your 'logic' here?



Finally, I thank you for allowing me to discuss these issues with you, and once again apologize for any offence I might have caused you. Thanks, but don't worry about me. To me, it just seems as you follow the same, extremely human-centric world view that most humans in the Western hemisphere do. The animals do, IMHO, deserve an apology - but I understand that you disagree with me here.

[Clueless Git]

I'm shocked CS. I would have thought that you would have volunteered yourself before your offspring. Of course you being a mature person and perhaps a bit "gamey" when eaten, we would need to ensure that you were "well-hung" before we cooked you. Ooh er!:evil:

lv
I have no answer to that! :amazed_ani:

:D

[Tish]

the killing and consuming of animals is not wrong. Therefore, as I like meat, I continue to do so.

Hi Physiologist, what you say above is what I was brought up to believe too and this is reinforced by the meat industry in terms of its marketing. With me, I started to question this as I started to feel bad about eating the animals. A lot of people never question this so I think it's interesting that you are looking at the 'other' side of why there are people, like all the vegans here, who choose not to consume animal products.

I know you mentioned that you wanted to understand "the reasoning of the vegan movement". I think to do that you would probably have to walk in our shoes (sorry for the cliche) for a bit. For example I watched some films about the conditions in which farmed animals are kept (try PETA website or a film called earthlings for example) which raised my awareness of what was really going on. Of course, I think I was ready to see these at the time as I hadn't eat meat for years anyway and so it helped me see why dairy and egg production also caused suffering and I then gave those up.

I do think however that if someone had shown me stuff on the conditions and slaughter of farmed animals many years ago I would not have been ready for it as I still thought/had been conditioned to think that eating meat was the only way. I think it can be difficult to challenge what is widely considered 'the norm' in society but I would just urge you to keep an open mind to all the possibilities.

[leedsveg]

On a similar topic, as I said in the deleted part of my original topic, I am heavily involved in animal research paticulary with regards to respiratory function. I believe that the test I do on animals go to towards creating new medical techniques to help those suffering from respiratory disease. My personal opinion is that the wellbeing of the people to whom the treatments are directed to towards are more important than the animals in the lab. However, test are only done on animals when there is absolutely no way that research data could be obtained in any other way.

Hi Francis

Perhaps a better time for you to consider the rationale and ethics of veganism would have been before you went into your particular line of work? Not sure how our answers to the particular questions you posed could help you reach any kind of enlightenment on veganism.

leedsveg

[Clueless Git]

On a similar topic, as I said in the deleted part of my original topic, I am heavily involved in animal research paticulary with regards to respiratory function. I believe that the test I do on animals go to towards creating new medical techniques to help those suffering from respiratory disease. My personal opinion is that the wellbeing of the people to whom the treatments are directed to towards are more important than the animals in the lab. However, test are only done on animals when there is absolutely no way that research data could be obtained in any other way.
'Lo Physio,

Just about every evil thing ever done on the planet has been based on that exact same morality matey; That being that doing wrong to one sub-set (always a subset that the harmer is personaly safe from being included within) can be justistified by the benefit(s) it brings to the sub-set the harmer belongs to him/her self or has sympathy with.

It is the morality that benefit to self and same justifies harm to any other group that can be sufficiently differentiated.

No one and nothing on the face of the planet is, safe or ever will be safe, for as long as that morality, in one guise or another, is being kept alive.

[SlackAlice]

I have no answer to that! :amazed_ani:

:D

I have .. :satisfied:

but then I might be biased cos he's my fella!! :p

[Manzana]

My first scenario:
If you a were caught in remote area with no access to eatable plants (Yes I know the unlikelihood of this), would you kill and eat a small rodent if it would mean the difference between your life and death?


It is edible not eatable.

No. It is not possible that a small rodent is the difference between life and death. If there are no edible plants I am dead anyway...
My question... what is the rodent eating? (nuts?... maybe I should find out and try to eat that too)



Second scenario:
If the animal had already died of natural causes in the same situation would it make any difference?

Clearly I could not find out what he/she is eating so it would make matters worse :p

If the question is "do you think it is unethical to eat dead animals (that have dies of natural causes)?" the answer is no, I think it is ok from an ethical viewpoint but very strange that people would want to eat a corpse when they have a choice. As Sandra said, insert human instead of animal.

People in desperate situations have eaten dead humans. the same would apply to me and dead animals I expect but certainly it would have to be desperate...



Third scenario:
What about if someone else was with you and killed the animal. Would you help eat it?


Certainly not.
I would abstain until I died/got rescued/found some plants to eat/ate the wrong plants and got poisoned leading to dead...

I would probably try to remove myself from the company of a human being that thinks it is ok to take life to eat (I am a small female and I might be next... or that person might think that it is acceptable to rape to satisfy his** sexual desires... it has happened many time before).

**I say his cos the it is normally a "he" but the same could be applied to females... :p



Fourth scenario:
Would you kill an animal to save another 1000 animals? What about for two animals?


Personally I would not. I try to not put myself in this kind of scenarios...

but then again, ethically sometimes utilitarianism comes into play in some conservation issues (for example with invasive species)... In these cases I would arguee that sometimes it may be necessary to kill for the greater good of an ecosystem... though I am sure that much more elegant solutions are possible (like contraceptives/relocation etc) and would be possible if we did not waste our time with pointless research.

In short, I do not support these measures but at times they might be the lesser evil.



Fifith scenario:
Would you eat an an animal that had already been slaughtered to save another 1000 animals?

ermm... I really dont follow this logic. I do not deprive myself of flesh. I no longer see meat as "meat". I see it as the dead body of a person (even if that person is not a human). I do not see how consuming a dead body would save 100 animals... this scenario is a bit grotesque.



Sixth scenario:
Would you kill an animal in self-defence or in the defence of another?


Sure. (and probably a human being too if the situation is extreme enough). I am a vegan but not a pacifist, if someone tries to harm me/family, I will definitely protect myself or others.


Now, I have another one... would you kill a mosquito or a wasp that is biting/stinging you? :p