Gluten-free, Soy-free, Raw, Low-fat...? "No Way!"

[Kimberlily1983]

Here's another interesting post by the Vegan RD that I thought was interesting.

http://www.theveganrd.com/2009/11/no-need-for-vegans-to-give-up-fat-gluten-soy-or-cooked-foods.html

She writes about how vegans who insist on restrictions that have nothing to do with the essence of veganism often hurt our cause. People have the right to eat as they want so long as they're not hurting others, but people who want to eat in these more restricted ways should perhaps make it clear that this is a choice they are making in addition to their veganism. I've encountered people who've asked me, "But what's wrong with eating wheat?" Veganism, in some cases, seems to be being redefined to include restrictions that have nothing whatsoever to do with animal products and exploitation, and this harms the cause, by making people more likely to think that this is a change they won't be able to undertake.

[harpy]

Yes, those are very good points. Must say most of the vegans I've met in person seem willing to eat anything so long as it's vegan (and I mean anything! :p ) but there seem to be some very picky ones around don't there?

[Kimberlily1983]

Must say most of the vegans I've met in person seem willing to eat anything so long as it's vegan (and I mean anything! :p )

Haha, I think I qualify as one of those, maybe... I was telling my partner, now that I'm vegan, and only think of plant products as food (meat is not food! :mad:), I think I can honestly say there is no type of food that I dislike. As a lacto-ovo veggie I did not like plain milk (yuck!), Brie... hmm, there's probably a couple of other things I can't think of. But as a vegan I think I love all foods. I've even fallen in love with avocados, which I used to not be crazy about.

One thing I've noticed, though, is that junk food (fries, etc.) is becoming less appealing. My tastes seem to be changing, with my cravings going towards healthier foods (rich lentil and bean dishes, sushi, etc.). I think that might be a product of doing research on diet more than being vegan, though. :)

[twinkle]

I honestly think that people just can't be bothered to find out about "food restrictions" and lump them all together quite often. For instance, I'm going for a meal with friends before Christmas and sent an email to the hotel asking what the vegan options were (they advertised that they did them, but not which items they were). Someone very politely and promptly wrote back that yes, vegans of our party could be catered for, and that she was attaching their gluten free menu!

Another example was when I was on training and was given a seperately prepared plate with a totally bizarre selection of foods on it, not including things from the main buffet which looked vegan but gluteny, but which did include tapanade which they proudly declared was home made, and on enquiry turned out to have anchovies in.

Trouble is, you don't want to say "please can I have something vegan - that's no animal products like meat, butter or honey, but I don't mind having fried food, nor do I mind bread, or nuts, or (and this was the most bizarre thing someone thought I couldn't eat) carrots"

[harpy]

I think you're right, twinkle, that caterer-type people often lump different requirements together in their minds. It doesn't really explain actual vegans who also feel they have to avoid wheat, soy etc but I guess in some other parts of the world a higher proportion of people are following a vegan diet for health reasons whereas the UK ones you meet are usually doing it for animal reasons. (Not that I think wheat, soy etc are intrinsincally unhealthy unless one has a sensitivity or something.)

Sigh - carrots? Where or on earth did that one come from? In pub type places that are clueless I sometimes ask for a large mixed salad with just vegetables and no dressing, and then buy a bag of nuts and tip them over the salad :rolleyes: Seems a bit pathetic if they can't sort something more out with advance notice though.

[Festered]

I know what you mean-it's weird!
I have had a lot of folk think I can't eat bread. And my family have often served me bizarre meals-my mum seems to think that vegans just eat less-I mean she gets the no meat thing, so she'll give me vegetables on a side plate and wonder why I am still hungry-I said 'do I not get some potatoes? As the rest of the family had chips or roasties, and she didn't know I could eat them. Hm.
Flour, I have been asked can I eat that-I have also been asked what the hell can I eat that's bad if I am vegan, when I said I was dieting....

[Clueless Git]

She writes about how vegans who insist on restrictions that have nothing to do with the essence of veganism often hurt our cause.

Which is about as bat-eared as moaning that people who want to run hurt the cause of those who want to walk.

[leedsveg]

Which is about as bat-eared as moaning that people who want to run hurt the cause of those who want to walk.

If people run (ie cheat) in a walking race, it definitely hurts the cause of race walking. Hopefully they get disqualified from the race, which makes sense to me.

I admit, nothing at all to do with veganism, CS, but then neither is your analogy!:p

lv

[Kimberlily1983]

Which is about as bat-eared as moaning that people who want to run hurt the cause of those who want to walk.

Yeah, in a way I don't think it's fair to get on the case of vegans who want to go gluten-free, raw, etc. It's their choice. I guess I would fault vegans who expect other people to think that's part of the essence of veganism (like getting upset if they order a vegan meal at a restaurant and get fatty dressing with their salad, or a non-raw meal). I don't know of any vegan who would do that, though.

So perhaps it would be better to get annoyed at the people (generally omnis) who make this association, who say things like "If my choice is fried chicken something or other, vs. a raw sprouted meal of some sort with no fat, I ain't going vegan." We can say raw, anti-soy, anti-fat, etc. vegans help perpetuate this association, but unless they're deliberately doing so, they're not the ones we should be blaming.

If I had a dime for every article I've seen where the writer gushes over the deliciousness of fried meats, bacon, cheese, etc., and then comments on how boring veganism must be because he/she thinks they must replace these foods with raw carrots and sprouts... Ugh!!! Let's just say I'd have enough money to make all these people delicious tofu "chicken" strips and vegan cheesecakes! (Okay, I know the math doesn't add up there, haha. Never mind that... lol)

[Clueless Git]

Yeah, in a way I don't think it's fair to get on the case of vegans who want to go gluten-free, raw, etc. It's their choice.
I was thinking of it from a slightly different angle Kimberlily ..

I'm thinking that to some vegans vegetarianism is irrelevant but all vegans are vegetarians by default.

Possibly raw foodists, and others, see veganism as irrelevant but, nonetheless, are still vegans by default.

If so then, to them, vegans moaning that they "go too far" must feel exactly the same as vegetarians moaning that vegans "go too far" would feel to us?

[Clueless Git]

I admit, nothing at all to do with veganism, CS, but then neither is your analogy!:p

lv
I apologise for that ..

It used to cheese me off immensely when my dad used the 'Robert Bruces Spider' analogy to stress the importance of perseverance over my maths homework.

It was perfectly clear to me that my dad was talking total and utter bollox as spiders can't do algebra.

[Kimberlily1983]

If so then, to them, vegans moaning that they "go too far" must feel exactly the same as vegetarians moaning that vegans "go too far" would feel to us?

Except for vegans, vegetarians don't go far enough because they're missing the point (if they're doing it for animal rights): their diet, if full of dairy products and eggs, is no better than the diet of someone who eats moderate amounts of meat. It'd be like someone saying they eat chicken but not beef because they care about animal rights. They'd be totally missing the point, which is that if you care about animal rights, you shouldn't support their exploitation in any way. Dairy, etc. is just as cruel as meat...

For raw foodies, etc. who think ordinary vegans don't go far enough, it's simply a matter of personal choice. There's nothing morally objectionable about consuming cooked food or soy. Even if they think ordinary vegans would be better off living like them, it's not something to get upset about, because no one's getting hurt - or if someone is, it's the person who's making the choice. If cooked food really were bad for us, I'm only hurting myself when I consume it. Not so with dairy, etc.

[harpy]

I don't think anyone objects to vegans who want to eat low-fat, soya-free or whatever - the only issue is if it clouds the definition of veganism and makes it sound "too difficult" or otherwise less desirable than it is, or about something other than what it's about, i.e. not exploiting animals.

I don't actually agree with the gripe about low-fat dressing on an airline, though, because if airlines can serve low-fat vegan meals and satisfy multiple requirements for "special meals" at once that seems quite sensible.

[leedsveg]

For raw foodies, etc. who think ordinary vegans don't go far enough, it's simply a matter of personal choice. There's nothing morally objectionable about consuming cooked food or soy.

Exactly right Kimberlily.

leedsveg