Industrial organic fertilizer

[jackson]

Hi there, I have been wondering about farm produced organic veg. How vegan is it, and what sort of organic fertilizer is used?

Does anyone know if slaughter products are used to make it?

There are no places to buy veg, where a nice old lady grows them in her vegan garden. It's the large supermarket chains for me. I have no land to plant and grow.

Many thanks in advance.

[Johnstuff]

As far as I know standard organic does indeed use animal products and I don't like the idea.

I would prefer to buy 'stock free organic' or 'veganic' or 'vegan organic' as they are sometimes known. Unfortunately the market for stock free is small and so it seems like in most places you can't buy stock free.

[harpy]

Hello. They do use non-vegan products, including stuff like bonemeal, I'm afraid - being vegan isn't part of the organic standards. So do non-organic farmers, of course.

I think if you search for the word "veganic" you will find some threads about this issue, and you might also want to look at this website:

http://www.veganorganic.net/index.php

Maybe you could try and get an allotment if you would like to try growing your own? I've managed to grow a few veg veganically in pots but I wouldn't say I'd ever been self-sufficient :o

[jackson]

Hello. They do use non-vegan products, including stuff like bonemeal, I'm afraid - being vegan isn't part of the organic standards. So do non-organic farmers, of course.

I think if you search for the word "veganic" you will find some threads about this issue, and you might also want to look at this website:

http://www.veganorganic.net/index.php

Maybe you could try and get an allotment if you would like to try growing your own? I've managed to grow a few veg veganically in pots but I wouldn't say I'd ever been self-sufficient :o

Ah. If non-organic farmers and organic farmers are using slaughter products, what is the best course to take. It's a case of damned if I do and damned if I don't.

An allotment is not an option for me, the waiting list is long, and I doubt I'd have the time for it.

I seems like what ever I try I will end up as part of the suffering chain of life. So are most other vegans I take it. Not that plants anit harmed.

Veganic would be wonderful, but until the supermarkets stock veganic, I'm outta luck.

I wonder if non-organic farmers would be likely to use less non vegan products?
Thank you for your replies.

[harpy]

There is a bit about organic vs conventional in those old threads on the forum - part of the trouble is that there isn't a clear dividing line between organic and non-organic farming as farmers can use some organic methods without being certified organic. Animal products definitely are used in conventional farming as well although I suppose they possibly have more alternatives in the form of artificially produced fertilisers.

Personally I tend to go for (small-scale if poss) organic when available, because at least these people show signs of attempting to minimise their impact on the environment (and hence on animals). Also organic husbandry is a bit more humane although IIRC organic growers sometimes use a proportion of non-organic farming outputs :-/ I think organic farmers are also more likely to use green manures etc too. There's a bit about the differences here http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1082260275&lang=en&r.l1=1081597476&r.l2=1082184851&r.l3=1083732127&r.l4=1082226325&r.s=sc&type=RESOURCES (from a government perspective so it's not pro-organic propaganda).

It's all a bit unclear though. I might try and find out if the vegan society knows of any research comparing the two methods from a vegan perspective.

[harpy]

I asked on the Vegan Society's facebook page and someone pointed me to this recent discussion on the Guardian website. The Vegan Society has contributed a comment. I wouldn't say anyone has exactly answered the main question yet though

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jan/12/vegetarians-food-animal-origin-fertiliser-vegetarian?INTCMP=SRCH

[jackson]

Thanks harpy, I think for the time being I will fall back to non organic veg and bread. It would seem less likely to use slaughter products as fertilizers. I don't like the sound of this blood and bone meal. As for pesticides non organic would use more I'd have thought. There is death everywhere in farming. I'm kidding myself to think otherwise.

As soon as I see stock free, they have my money! For now it's not a good situation.

Thanks for your reply.

[harpy]

It's a personal choice, but FWIW my impression is that on balance (typical) conventional farming does more harm to animals than (typical) organic farming because of the use of pesticides, the husbandry methods used and the lack of respect for wildlife habitats and other environmental issues. I admit that my preference for organic produce derives from environmental concerns more than vegan ones though.

I'm trying to find out more about the use of animal-derived fertilisers in conventional farming and will post here if anything relevant emerges.

[jackson]

Thanks, It'll be nice to know which does the least overall harm.

Thanks for your reply.

[harpy]

Some of the followups on that Guardian item are quite interesting - there is one from the Soil association that says (I don't suppose they'll mind my reproducing it):

Farms listed by the Vegan Organic Network: http://www.veganorganic.net/ won’t have used any animal products so that’s one way to be sure. Iain Tolhurst of Tolhurst Organic Farm: http://www.tolhurstorganic.co.uk.../ is a Soil Association licensee. Another option is asking the producer what inputs they have used. Fish, blood and bone is fairly expensive and is not most commonly used for growing organic vegetables - the main ways of building fertility are by using animal manure or compost, and green manures including clover which are also used in crop rotations. Fish, blood and bone is a by-product derived from slaughter-house waste (mainly non-organic), which is properly treated before being sold for use. It is allowed in fertilisers approved by the Soil Association so buying organic products is not a guarantee for avoiding. It might occur as a fertiliser in potting compost, used for transplants of young seedlings or in glasshouse production where nutrient requirements are slightly higher. It also might occasionally be used for top fruit production (e.g. apples and pears).

[jackson]

Thanks harpy, for your help. I'll read thru www.veganorganic.net.
I couldn't quite take the anthropogenic climate change/AGW dogma.. :)