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eclectic_one
Oct 3rd, 2006, 06:47 PM
Just this weekend I drove by this horrible farm where dairy cows are kept...I used to drive by it often and the poor cows are kept in horrible conditions: they are "outside," but under a open metal-roofed structure that sits over most of a small muddy field. This time as I went by, I felt the normal disgust, then I saw a new structure: a small plastic-roofed open structure (with some sort of fence-like material surrounding it) with calves in it...I'm still depressed by the sight:(

jamey
Mar 24th, 2007, 12:18 AM
I saw in the newspaper not so long ago that camel milk will be the next 'big thing' sweeping the food industry. What!?

I too think that cow's milk is exactly as is implied, milk for cows. And not even fully-grown cows, just those in the first weeks of life: calves. It helps them gain hundreds of kilos in weight and muscle and is naturally optimized for their physique and biological features. Put that liquid into a human and it is like trying to morph a human into a cow. It can't be done. But what happens is a lot of disease and discomfort for the human as their body tries to eject this foreign substance.

It's sort of futile trying to convince other people, especially those close to you, that everything that the dairy, medical and what-not industries have been subliminally feeding them is total and utter BS. Even if it truly is BS, they are happy riding on their slogans and gimmicks called 'health advice'.

Got milk? Yes? Well, you got disease too! :(

angelamc
Mar 28th, 2007, 12:07 AM
I think I'm going to put out an ad proclaiming the wonders of cat's milk and see what happens. People can be so dumb sometimes you never know what they'll believe.;)

tomo359
May 8th, 2008, 09:48 PM
Just a quick question for vegans.
I understand not eating things or having anything to do with products where the animal has had to be killed such as meat, eggs, leather etc, but why do you not eat and drink things like milk and cheese? That doesn't harm any animals.
And do you wear woolen clothes?

mogthecat
May 10th, 2008, 05:16 PM
Hi Tomo

Milk and cheese production in fact causes huge suffering and death for cows, goats etc. I'd suggest you have a read through the information on these pages of the Vegan society (http://www.vegansociety.com/html/animals/exploitation/) - follow the links on the right.

Vegans also do not wear wollen clothes.

Welcome!

ellaminnowpea
May 10th, 2008, 05:39 PM
Other than the suffering of animals in milk and cheese production that mogthecat mentioned, it is proven that milk is NOT meant for human consumption. Milk is actually dangerous to consume (for humans) and is only meant for baby calves. Where do you think the milk would go if humans didn't take it? The baby calves!

Check out some of the threads on here for more detailed information (our moderator has very detailed threads with all sorts of good links and information!).

Also, vegans do not use anything from animals because it is wrong to forcefully take something from an animal. It is not ours to use! Wool is taken from sheep who often suffer after or during the time wool is taken from their bodies (summer heat/ sunburns, winter cold, skin infections, leg or muscle injuries, etc).

bryzee86
May 11th, 2008, 12:53 AM
Female mammals produce milk for their young. To take that milk, you deprive the young. So what happens to the young? Death, for the purposes of economy

That is why vegans do not drink milk, amongst other reasons.

RubyDuby
May 11th, 2008, 01:00 AM
Female mammals produce milk for their young. To take that milk, you deprive the young. So what happens to the young?
veal.

(i know u know breezy :p)

bryzee86
May 11th, 2008, 01:14 AM
don't make me start on you, rub-a-dub-dub.

But yes, I know. That's what I meant by death. Not only are their mothers crippled, distended and diseased, but the lucky male calves get taken off, tied to a crate and live in their own filth for a few short months 'til they're exported and killed. The females will probably be forced to live like their mothers as well - forcibly impregnated against their will and then refused the bond with the product of these pregnancies. Only to become distended and diseased too.

All of this until their bodies are pushed beyond their means (having had to produce more calves for their milk than they would have chosen to naturally) and are slaughtered for cheap pet and burger meat.

RubyDuby
May 11th, 2008, 01:36 AM
"but it tastes so good":mad:

bryzee86
May 11th, 2008, 01:42 AM
Tastes like pus to me.

journey
May 11th, 2008, 07:14 PM
Tomo, I think many folks don't realize the death and suffering that are caused by eating dairy and egg products, and wearing wool, silk, down, leather, etc. People aren't really aware of it because those industries work very hard to suppress that info and keep us all thinking those animals are happy and healthy and happy to give their lives for us.

The boy calves and chicks die horrendous deaths (not needed for milk and egg industries, so they're discarded in really bad ways) and the adult females left live very short lives of suffering. Once their production drops, at less than 1/3 natural life span, they're slaughtered.

Silkworms are boiled alive in their coccoons (cheaper that way), and sheep and geese are slaughtered at an extremely young age too (which is what a large percentage of your wool and down comes from).

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be so preachy, but I honestly didn't realize all this either at one point, and said the same as you - I thought no animals were getting hurt for these products. Once I found out, the only logical thing I could do was stop contributing to this. Hope this helps.

bryzee86
May 12th, 2008, 12:31 AM
and sheep are slaughtered at an extremely young age too

Not to mention mulesing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulesing)

gogs67
May 12th, 2008, 04:56 PM
Hi Tomo

Milk and cheese production in fact causes huge suffering and death for cows, goats etc. I'd suggest you have a read through the information on these pages of the Vegan society (http://www.vegansociety.com/html/animals/exploitation/) - follow the links on the right.

Vegans also do not wear wollen clothes.

Welcome!
I had a mate that got a jersey spun out of all the hair he collected everytime he brushed his dogs, there's a woman in Germany that you send the hair to and yer measurements and she spins it, knits it and sends back the finished article! Odd but, as i could see no animal suffering involved, nothing really questionable about it ethically in my mind!:D

bryzee86
May 12th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Could you send your own hair?

ellaminnowpea
May 12th, 2008, 07:04 PM
"oh your jacket's so nice!"
"...yeah its my own hair!!"

cant see that happening, its kinda creepy. but i suppose its possible!

bryzee86
May 12th, 2008, 07:16 PM
"oh your jacket's so nice!"
"...yeah its my own hair!!"

cant see that happening, its kinda creepy. but i suppose its possible!

It saves waste!

gogs67
May 12th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Could you send your own hair?
Think you'd need more than one persons hair to get enough for a jersey, lol!

bryzee86
May 12th, 2008, 08:48 PM
Oh I know that, but I was thinking that I could save up all my hair tilI have a sack's worth and make a jumper :D

pavotrouge
May 12th, 2008, 09:20 PM
you could always get some fancy underwear done :)

bryzee86
May 12th, 2008, 09:24 PM
That would be so itchy :eek:

RubyDuby
May 12th, 2008, 11:31 PM
i love that idea!

bryzee86
May 12th, 2008, 11:37 PM
Hairy knickers?

ETA: I never thought I'd ever use the phrase "Hairy knickers" on a public* forum...

*nearly left out the "L" then...

ellaminnowpea
May 12th, 2008, 11:47 PM
just make sure to use a lot of hair conditioner for the next few years and youll have nice, soft underwear for those special occassions.

treehugga
May 13th, 2008, 04:03 AM
I thought we already had natural versions of them! ;)