meat in the intestine

[Bailey]

hi everyone
I'm so sorry if this has been answered elsewhere. Seriously I could spend hours reading all the posts on this site, they are so interesting, but my eyes are going screwy from staring at the computer for so long!

I don't eat meat but I've read that it takes ages to pass through the intestine and putrefies in there, and this shows that humans weren't designed to eat meat. Is this true? It sounds a bit unlikely - I mean, if that was the case surely meat wouldn't feature at all, ever, on the standard 'food pyramid' which doctors/dietitians have. What I mean is - is this idea really based on solid science?

I am really more and more convinced that a vegan diet is the way to go for so many reasons. Only thing holding me back is the fact that I desperatley need to gain weight and my friends and family will go nuts if they think I'm going vegan (I still eat organic eggs and dairy very occasionally)

Thanks for your help.

[snowflower]

Hi, :)

Have no idea about the intestine question but regarding weight gain....I tend to have the same problem as you and I actually gained a few pounds when I changed my diet because all of the sudden I had all this variety instead of my usual same old steaks and burgers when I was omni. I started to really put effort into recipes and cooking so it helped. There are lots of things that are good for weight gain on a vegan diet like nuts, nut butters, avocados, vegan chocolate :D, olive oil, vegan butter to put on things..... There is a lot of variety believe it or not on a vegan diet and as I am learning there are ways to veganize a lot of things that I used to eat as a meat eater/vegetarian. I've also read quite a few other posters on here say that they eat a lot more variety of foods now than before. I was actually glad that I gained a small bit of weight because it proves that vegans are not pale, skinny and unhealthy (not that I really thought that before, but it just made me smile to know that I'm well fed, lol)

try googling some vegan recipes and also check out the pictures of good vegan food thread on here and you may find a whole list of things you'd like to try making...

[Clueless Git]

'Lo Bailey :)

I read somewhere that the intestinal track of a true carnivore is about five times shorter (so less twists, turns, loop-the-loops and hairpin bends) and five times more acidic than the human gut is.

Idea being that meat needs to pass quickly through a relatively straight path or it putrefies and gets stuck in places due to its low fibre.

A few pieces of empirical evidence in support thereof:

1. The old cries of "Whoooo! did a rat crawl up there and die mate?" and "blood yell! I can taste the bones in that .." when a meat eater floats an 'air-biscuit' were not coined for no reason.

2. 'She who must be obeyed' is a case worker for MacMillans and commented, on reading this post, that the majority of her clients are omnis (no veg*n clients at all, so far) with bowel and colon cancer.

3. A 'logic' in support of raw foodism this; Only raw,'living', foods break down naturaly to release the goodness within. Not dissimiliar to the basic rules of composting - Meat, even cooked veg, is 'dead' food, it don't break down nicely. It goes putrid and nasty. Put meat or cooked food in a compostor and it 'poisons' the whole bin.

[sandra]

Hi Bailey, it's good to hear from you again. You say the only thing holding you back from being vegan is the fact that you need to gain weight. It is perfectly possible to gain weight on a vegan diet. As you still eat eggs and some dairy and still haven't put on weight it might just be you aren't meant to be any heavier. Dairy is notorious for being a very 'fattening' food aswell as being full of saturated fats and cholesterol.
With regard to whether we are 'designed' to eat meat or not..............there are others on the forum who would know more about this aspect, but I can only give my opinion. There is a vast amount of scientific evidence that meat eating contributes to colon cancer. Meat still features on the 'food pyramid' because many doctors still cling to the belief that humans need some meat to be healthy. They see meat as the easiest way to obtain iron and protein in the diet. This of course is not true as the vegan diet provides all the iron and protein requirements for good health.
Doctors tell us to eat '5 a day' so they acknowledge that fruit and vegetables are necessary for good health..............I don't hear them advocating we should eat '5 a day' of meat products.........that should tell you something.
Apart from the increased risk of bowel cancers that meat eating contributes to, meat is also full of saturated fat and cholesterol.............these two things are unhealthy in anyone's diet and do not need to be consumed.
It's great you are on your way to being vegan, it is a much healthier diet and I'm sure if you eat a lot of the right vegan foods it won't be long until you have put more weight on.

[Firestorm]

Hi Bailey
I read a book a couple of years ago called "The silent ark" by Juliet Gelatly (the founder of VIVA), now dont quote me on this but I remember reading that a Dr admitted to her that the reason one of her friends had developed stomach cancer was through eating red meat (I read this book years ago but will look through it again to see if I can find this part), obviously this isn't scientific evidence but there have also been articles in newspapers, definitely in the UK saying that it has been proven that excessive amount of certain meats can contribute to cancer, I found this article on the Daily Mirror website from 20th Feb this year which stated that government advisors are going to issue a report urging people to cut their intake of red and processed meats because of the risk of cancer (although it does state the "benefits" of eating meat as well) .http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/health-news/2011/02/20/new-health-alert-over-red-meat-cancer-risk-115875-22935775/ .

With regards to Doctors, some of them are very old fashioned and believe everything that has been thrown at them about the benefits of animal products over the years. I happen to be one of the fortunate vegans who has a very forward thinking doctor, when I told him I was going vegan he was quite happy about it (although he is not vegan himself).
He did recommend that I take a Vitamin supplement, that I may not need it but that it wouldn't do any harm just to make sure. I also went to see a dietitian when I became Vegan, she took a list of everything I eat in a week and told me not to bother with a vitamin supplement because with my current diet I would be getting everything that I needed.
She did try and persuade me to eat free range dairy/eggs (which annoyed me), but I said no and the only thing that she recommended I do was avoid buying organic soya/rice/oat products (such as milk, yogurts) as these CANNOT by law have any added ingredients that are not necessary (this means they will not be fortified with vitamins and minerals), its best to stick with the non-organic versions.
FYI (if you dont know this already) in the UK Alpro/Provamel are part of the same company, Alpro is generally the non-organic arm so their products are fortified, Provamel is the Organic arm so their products are not, because of this I tend to go for Alpro products over Provamel (unless I fancy a change for once).

I also remember reading somewhere (again this may have been in the silent ark) that although you would assume doctors to be very knowledgeable, nutrition is not a large part of their medical training, if I remember rightly they used to have a 1 day optional lecture on it - although this could be wrong/different now my memory is a bit foggy, whereas dietitians have spent years studying nutrition.

With regards to gaining weight, I am in the same boat slightly, I did gain weight when I became vegan, but have lost most of it because I swim and exercise a lot, if I want to gain weight I try flapjacks from H&B, Soya Cheese is full of calories, Cakes made using Oil (sounds weird but it isnt - The vegan society website has some recipes to start with) and their are some alternative products that have a lot more calories than others (E.g Redwoods soya chiken has about twice the calories as Realeats, and the Southern fried kind has even more) so if you choose certain products over others that could help.
:D

[Mymblesdaughter]

Hi

I think the reason people say that meat stays too long in the intestine is because most carnivores intestines are much shorter than humans. I'm sure I've read a thread about it but can't find it. Here are a couple of articles that mention it.

http://www.waoy.org/26.html

http://www.viva.org.uk/guides/Wheat-Eaters-guide.pdf

[Bailey]

hi everyone,
wow, thank you so much for your replies!

I've also read about the length of the human intestine being closer to herbies than carnies... it's funny, I've seen charts comparing humans' intestines, teeth, shape of head, jaw blah blah - and some make us look similar to carnivores (as in the Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith) and some make us look similar to herbivores! It seems like either camp can pick and choose the evidence to suit their argument. Humans have been eating meat for a very, very long time though. (doesn't mean that we NEED to, or that it's morally acceptable)

I do think the cooked food = dead food thing is a very good point but I think that humans have evolved over zillions of generations to benefit from cooking food to get the nutrients out (raw potato/soya bean anyone?!)

I know about the link to colon cancer however a close relative of mine who was an extremely careful eater (vegetarian and always cooked her own stuff from scratch, made her own bread etc) recently died from colon cancer. Well I know there are no guarantees that any sort of lifestyle will prevent any sort of condition (non smokers get lung cancer too)....

It's true that sometimes the professionals change their advice in the light of new evidence....nothing more so than with food!! Maybe the food pyramid will look different in a few years time. I think that the internet is great for people being able to read and spread the latest knowledge and help for it to be checked, challenged, accepted...!

Thanks for the mention of 'the silent ark', I will check it out.

I'm gonna keep trying to find a milk alternative.... I've tried everything and soya I think is the best but I'm worried about the amount of processing there is in it and also my stomach sort of complains a bit... but that's a whole new thread!!

THANK YOU for your help!