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View Full Version : Non-vegans are more pro-vegan than we (and they!) may think they are



Korn
May 12th, 2011, 10:41 AM
According to a study quoted in Why a former sheep farmer went vegan (http://www.thescavenger.net/animals/why-a-former-sheep-farmer-went-vegan-84576.html):


Survey results show Australians are against animal cruelty

Run by Newspoll, and funded by animal protection institute Voiceless, the Pound of Flesh survey interviewed 1,202 people across Australia about their attitudes to vegetarianism, veganism and the treatment of animals.

Most of the results are not surprising. According to the poll, 99% of Australians are against animal cruelty and find certain farming, testing and breeding practices unacceptable; 86% of Australians believe keeping egg laying hens in cages for their entire lives is unacceptable, 74% think castrating animals without anaesthetic is unacceptable, and 72% also say killing male chicks in egg production is unacceptable.

Animal breeding and testing are also subjects of considerable concern: 46% of Australians find breeding animals for pet shops unacceptable, 80% of Australians think itís unacceptable to test cosmetics on animals, while 43% make an effort to buy non-animal tested products.

But other results from the survey provoke a degree of scepticism. While obviously well intentioned, the claim that overall, 56% of Australians would consider becoming vegan is specious.

When you delve deeper into the report you realise that this conclusion was reached through a line of questioning that asked what evidence or circumstances would encourage a person to become vegan, including evidence that farming practices cause stress and pain for millions of animals every year (36% agreed they would be influenced by this evidence), evidence they can be healthy on a vegan diet (35%), evidence that being vegan is better for the environment (31%), and if there were more vegan menu items in cafes or restaurants (25%).

The question is - since most people aren't pro animal cruelty.... what would it take to make all those who 'would consider going vegan' to actually do it?

Clueless Git
May 12th, 2011, 11:28 AM
The question is - since most people aren't pro animal cruelty.... what would it take to make all those who 'would consider going vegan' to actually do it?
'Lo Korn :)

One of our members (apologies, can't remember who) carries the signature line "every snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty".

I am pretty much convinced that the answer to your question is that we would have to make all the little 'snow flakes' in the meat industry avalanche understand that they are guilty.

In my experience the vast majority of the little snowflakes are totaly immune to gentle methods of helping them that see that they are the avalanche and do not take harsher methods kindly.

Flower
May 12th, 2011, 12:08 PM
Several people I work with are very open to it, but just won't do it. I think what's holding them back so much is that they think by supporting animal products labeled "cruelty free" that doing so makes everything okay. I try to get through to them, but there's a wall up when it comes to that. Very frustrating.

Korn
May 12th, 2011, 12:23 PM
Several people I work with are very open to it, but just won't do it.
I think a main reason is that they assume that it means a lot of work or some sort of lifestyle sacrifice compared with their current lifestyle and diet.

Firestorm
May 12th, 2011, 12:55 PM
I find a lot of people are aware of most of the issues, but tend not to think about them (either intentionally or not) and just plod along using animals.
I was asked by a new colleague at work on Tuesday why I was Vegan, I explained some of the reasons and when I came on to the subject of cows milk not being for human consumption but for baby cows (I think my exact words were "You wouldn't breast feed a donkey, why feed a human cows milk?"), she completely agreed with me and already knew about pus being in milk from a documentary she watched.
But she still drinks milk and eats meat.
I think a lot people block out what they don't want to hear or think about because as Korn has said they think it will be a lot of hard work to change.
I also think that people assume that it will be expensive, I have tried explaining to people that it can be either expensive or inexpensive depending upon what you actually buy (as can a non-vegan lifestyle), but a lot of people just dont want to hear it.:(

CoolCat
May 12th, 2011, 02:47 PM
I think it would be very hard to find a truely ignorant person in regards to the issues. Most have been exposed to enough material that should make them vegan, or enough that they should start questioning things at least. They simply don't care and lack empathy. Maybe if we get some more scandals in meat/byproduct production, swine flu, foot and mouth disease, and maybe some cloning mishaps, or other things gone wrong, that people will start to change out of self-preservation. Humans are a selfish breed, if being vegan isn't about them it's a hard sell. And long term things like cholestorol and stuff doesn't seem to cut it.

I had comments like "oh you won't change the system" before, or "yes I know that those things happen but what are you going to do"... how about not participating in it you horrible selfish person heh.

sandra
May 12th, 2011, 03:12 PM
Yes, I agree most people just don't want to face exactly what they are consuming. As long as it's all neatly packaged at the supermarket they don't look beyond that to the animal it came from. As a Christian teacher of mine once said 'After all they're only pigs' when talking about loving bacon sandwiches. They don't see them as living, feeling beings and picture them going to death in the slaughterhouse calmly and meekly.
I read on the forum the other day that the definition of animal is 'having breath'................how can anyone treat animals the way they do when they are an animals themselves?
Everyone can pass a field full of strawberries and think, 'Oh, I'd love to eat some of those' but most people don't pass a field full of cows and think the same..........do they?
People should be made to watch what exactly goes on in slaughterhouses/dairy farms etc and then a lot more of them would have to face up to what they are condoning.

Firestorm
May 12th, 2011, 04:58 PM
how can anyone treat animals the way they do when they are an animals themselves?
It has always bugged me that a lot of people don't see themselves as animals, they seem to be under the misguided impression that we are some superior race of being that can treat other animals as we wish.


They don't see them as living, feeling beings and picture them going to death in the slaughterhouse calmly and meekly.
I think one of the reasons that people dont associate animals with the food that they are eating is that they have been renamed (E.G instead of cow, its beef, instead of pig, its pork).
If people called food by what it actually is they may be more reticent to eat it.

sandra
May 12th, 2011, 05:29 PM
This is true Firestorm but even that wouldn't stop them..............they eat chicken by the billions and they are called 'chickens' :(

CoolCat
May 12th, 2011, 05:49 PM
It has always bugged me that a lot of people don't see themselves as animals, they seem to be under the misguided impression that we are some superior race of being that can treat other animals as we wish.

I had an 40-ish woman who has two kids herself react suprised when I said that a cow needs to have a calf before she can be milked. How disconnected can you be. We're just mammals too. She did not know this much about cows. A lot of people seem to think that cows just produce milk and that they *have* to be milked. Of course the suddenly stopping of milking of domesticated cows would bring great discomfort not to say pain or mention other issues. But that we don't have to breed cows doesn't cross their minds at all. It seems that most people are stuck inside a box and that they can't think their way out of it by themselfs.

Firestorm
May 12th, 2011, 09:12 PM
Humans are a selfish breed
Yes they are, humans are the worst creatures walking the earth. But some of them are good (the people on this forum remind me of this).


I had comments like "oh you won't change the system" before, or "yes I know that those things happen but what are you going to do"
These comments always get me annoyed, just because 1 person cannot change the system (alone) does not mean you have to conform. The people who say these things need to be reminded that one person shouting is enough to cause an avalanche.


A lot of people seem to think that cows just produce milk and that they *have* to be milked
I had a nasty 85 year old neighbour who told me "I've been drinking milk for 85 years, you dont know what your talking about, if we didnt milk cows where would all the milk go?"
I would not allow myself to get annoyed with her, its whats she believed for the last 85 years, I think she was passed the point of change

cobweb
May 12th, 2011, 11:43 PM
I had an 40-ish woman who has two kids herself react suprised when I said that a cow needs to have a calf before she can be milked. How disconnected can you be.

ha, I used to work for a 40-something woman, who not only ran an animal sanctuary, but also married a dairy farmer and lived on a dairy farm (before it changed to a sanctuary), and she point blank REFUSED to believe me when I told her that!! :rolleyes:. She went and got her husband to teach me the error of my ways and he was gobsmacked at her ignorance too! :evil:.

harpy
May 13th, 2011, 09:54 AM
ha, I used to work for a 40-something woman, who not only ran an animal sanctuary, but also married a dairy farmer and lived on a dairy farm (before it changed to a sanctuary), and she point blank REFUSED to believe me when I told her that!! . She went and got her husband to teach me the error of my ways and he was gobsmacked at her ignorance too!

That is pretty amazing, considering she must have known that cows produce calves that are unwanted by the farms. Perhaps she just thought the cattle were having unprotected sex or something :rolleyes:

Aylanna
May 14th, 2011, 12:52 AM
My dad who is a very intelligent, compassionate man asked me..but what would happen to all the cows? Would you be ok with it if they went extinct? To me this just shows how blind I was as a meat eater and how blind people can be in general when it is something they don't want to bring themselves to face on a very deep level..because my dad isn't the type to spew balony like this at all. And yet he said it. I told him I would be ok with that were it a choice in between that and their suffering. But I don't think cows would go extinct if people quit eating them. With all the species going extinct due to deforestation in order to produce food to fatten cows is that really a rational concern at all? I think no.

CoolCat
May 14th, 2011, 02:42 AM
My dad who is a very intelligent, compassionate man asked me..but what would happen to all the cows? Would you be ok with it if they went extinct?

Well at least he didn't say: "But what with all the cows. We can't set them free, that wouldn't be safe in traffic."

A lot of people seem to think if we all went vegan we
a) would all go vegan at the same time
b) keep breeding cows for the fun of it.

kikifromscotland
May 14th, 2011, 10:28 AM
Yup! Sometimes it's almost fun to show people how silly their comments are, but mostly it's quite sad that for a supposedly intelligent species there are so many who think they've reinvented the wheel with comments like 'well what about all the cows- they'll take over the world!' 'cows need to get milked or they'll explode' 'i may as well eat meat because plants can feel pain too' etc etc!!


Well at least he didn't say: "But what with all the cows. We can't set them free, that wouldn't be safe in traffic."

A lot of people seem to think if we all went vegan we
a) would all go vegan at the same time
b) keep breeding cows for the fun of it.

leedsveg
May 14th, 2011, 12:38 PM
Going back to the thread title, the saying "actions [or more appropriately in this instance "non-actions"] speak louder than words" comes to mind.

lv

cobweb
May 15th, 2011, 10:03 AM
My dad who is a very intelligent, compassionate man asked me..but what would happen to all the cows? Would you be ok with it if they went extinct? To me this just shows how blind I was as a meat eater and how blind people can be in general when it is something they don't want to bring themselves to face on a very deep level..because my dad isn't the type to spew balony like this at all. And yet he said it. I told him I would be ok with that were it a choice in between that and their suffering. But I don't think cows would go extinct if people quit eating them. With all the species going extinct due to deforestation in order to produce food to fatten cows is that really a rational concern at all? I think no.


My dad is also a deep-thinking type, and he asked me this question a few years back when we were walking by a field of cows. I gave him the same answer that you gave yours, and waited for the argument..........there wasn't one, he looked genuinely suprised and continued on in silence, obviously thinking it over. Of course he didn't go vegan, but still, I was happy that he went away at least understanding veganism a whole lot more. He's been much more respectful about veganism since then :).

cobweb
May 15th, 2011, 10:05 AM
That is pretty amazing, considering she must have known that cows produce calves that are unwanted by the farms. Perhaps she just thought the cattle were having unprotected sex or something :rolleyes:

Nope, she just really never put the whole thing together in her mind, amazing...............I must add that she still runs the sanctuary, has done for decades, and is still a meat-eater :rollseyes_ani:

sevenseas
May 15th, 2011, 06:40 PM
I think a main reason is that they assume that it means a lot of work or some sort of lifestyle sacrifice compared with their current lifestyle and diet.

^this^

There was a vegetarian who asked me (I was eating a salad at the time) "So, what do you eat? Vegetables?"
People always seem to have this image of us as skinny, eating leaves and dirt.
My friend is Russian Orthodox and was eating vegan for Lent, and after that my other friend was "THANK GOD now you can eat real food again". I've had the friend who said that tell me several times how good my lunch smells (sun dried tomato pasta salad, curries, soups and stuff) and that I make relaly good cookies. Somehow, I dunno, all that stuff she loves doesn't count?

And then there's just human psychology: people will block out unpleasant issues - sweatshops, wars, animal cruelty, anything - in order to be comfortable. And people find change uncomfortable.

And people don't even WANTto understand: I once had a friend say "I don't get vegans, dairy and eggs don't hurt the animal", and I explained as quickly as I could that they kill male chicks and male dairy calves, and once production declines egg/dairy animals are sent to slaughter, and a) she kept cutting me off b) after I explained it she said "But its not as bad as meat" ???? HOW??

snowflower
May 15th, 2011, 11:45 PM
I live with omni's and just went into the fridge to find "organic" milk with a lovely picture of a man hugging a happy looking cow and a paragraph about how much he "loves working with the animals at the dairy farm"... this is the kind of thing that keeps putting positive images of a bad thing into people's minds.. it's like with any other advertisement, when you see a happy image and then you see the product, you associate that product with the feeling of being happy.. but in reality this is very false advertising, and it really makes me so mad. It was probably some made up person with a made up paragraph about how lovely it is to work at a dairy farm.. because we all know from watching videos of what actually goes on at a dairy farm! the picture made it look like the cow was going to be thrilled that you were buying this carton of milk.

i think this is a major reason why people sometimes understand that meat is bad, but they dont understand why the dairy products are bad, because they keep seeing these advertisements that are completely false! Where I live, every time you turn on the tv practically, there is a advertisement for some cheesy meal with a happy family sitting around with huge smiles, or a salad dressing ad with beautiful cows wandering around a pasture... i think people just keep seeing this stuff over and over and then its just so hard to accept that horrible things go on in order to obtain these products.