PDA

View Full Version : Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Rachael-Louise
Jun 29th, 2011, 04:31 PM
I am vegan and my husband is not, not even slightly and is pissed off with me for making him have a meat free week due to eating veal on holiday! :D
Anyway we are expecting our first little one, due in just under 7 weeks and have compramised and agreed that we will raise him vegetarian until he is old enough to choose which path he wants to go down.
Anyway my husband said he understands the compramise and is on board BUT he really is not on board, we were talking the other day about HOW we will go about teaching him about animals and meat and he said that he will say things like 'The cow there, in the field is there to be eaten!' :eek::down:
Obviously I had a go at him and said that is not how we will do it because that is not right, that we should say things like 'The cow there, in the field is there to live life but some people do choose to eat them'
I bought a book 'Thats why we dont eat animals' and he said that he thinks the book is biast and that it focuses on 'the bad' points- obviously being vegan I disagree that there are any 'good points' but that is an argument for another day.
I want my child to grow up with compassion for all living beings, not look at a cow and think 'yum, meat!'
I asked my husband the other day, 'what is a cow to you?' and he said 'food' really bluntly. :cry:
I think I am going to have a real struggle on my hands. Have any of you found a good book that is 'child friendly' when it comes to vegetarianism?

khadagan
Jun 29th, 2011, 07:58 PM
It took many years before my partner turned vegan. He only turned completely vegan about a year ago. We have a 3 1/2 year old and one on the way. When I met him he was big on eating meat, fish, cheese, etc. At the time it wasn't anything he ever put much thought into and the idea of eating vegan was a bit weird to him even though he did always have respect for my way of living. Most of his family thought I was a bit off my head, but mostly polite in my face, they always gave my partner extra meat, cheese or whatever non-vegan when we visited them because they assumed he would be very deprived. I didn't judge him on not being vegan since I grew up an omnivore myself, but I would never prepare or buy him anything non-vegan. Only when he asked me about it would I show him a little film or explain certain things to him about nutrients, cruelty to animals etc, I don't believe in changing someone. When I was pregnant with my daughter my partner was still an omnivore although we ate mostly vegan foods at home at the time and he was a bit upset at first when I said that no way was this child going to grow up being an omnivore. They can always change later if they want and this child is going to be healthy, if not much healthier. To set his mind at ease at his request I showed him some examples on how healthy vegan foods are for children and showed him studies that vegan children are not sickly, unhealthy or behind in their development. After our daughter was born he wanted to show a good example and be vegan as well, but he slipped up many times. Only in the last year did he decide to fully become vegan and now he's kicking himself for not doing it earlier. He changed completely and finds it completely sick the way animals are treated and used and it's not even healthy. Most of his family, mainly the male side, thinks he's gone completely nuts and are quite disrespectful to him about him being vegan now as well. The women on his side are eating more vegan foods and have changed their attitude somewhat.

I don't have a book recommendation for you. I've been vegan for a long time now and only did a lot of book reading when I just turned vegan. There are lots of interesting websites on the internet everywhere, there are also lots of research links that I've read into after links have been posted on this forum, I often send them out to friends and family or post them on my Facebook page if anyone's interested in reading about it.
I just wanted to give you my experience. I never expected my partner to change, but I'm happy that he did since our entire little family is now vegan. It's not impossible for people to change, but I think you'll get the best results if someone comes to things on their own. Some people take a long time to change and others never will. I've been with my daughter 24/7 since the start and I would never allow anything non-vegan to pass her lips, so I knew I would be in control there, so it's been pretty easy so far. I can understand how frustrating it is being so close with someone, but not having them on your side for something so close to your heart. I can only wish you good luck and I hope you'll find a way of working around your husband with this one.

cobweb
Jun 29th, 2011, 08:12 PM
To be brutally honest, I think that finding a book is the least of your worries :amazed_ani:.

How are you going to explain to your child why you decided to raise him or her vegetarian rather than vegan?
:confused:.
If you don't feel that you need to eat dairy and eggs then I'm wondering why you reached that particular compromise?.

Also, it really sounds like your husband doesn't have any compassion for animals atall :eek:. I would have been concerned about having a family with somebody so entrenched in those views, but, assuming that you're madly in love and he's otherwise a great partner, I would still bet that he will give your child meat at some stage.

So I really wouldn't worry about books, if I were you I'd be worrying about my marriage. Sorry if that sounds nasty, but you two seem to poles apart in your thinking! :(.

missbettie
Jun 29th, 2011, 08:30 PM
Just because they don't agree on something doesn't mean that their marriage is having issues, yes it can cause some issues in some relationships, but my boyfriend is very respectful to me. Now I do think that when the time comes we will have issues about raising kids, but really what parents don't? All parents have different views on certain things on raising their children, why should eating be any different. As long as everyone is respectful i'm sure you will be able to sway him to our side....

Some people just honestly don't understand, and some people have a hard time listening because they feel guilty or they don't want to feel guilt.

cobweb
Jun 29th, 2011, 08:36 PM
^ that is true, missb, but it's just what I've personally found.........there are so many issues that parents have to agree on, and I think if one partner is vegan and the other literally sees a cow and thinks 'food', then that's a pretty wide river to be bridged straight away, before all the other child related stress stuff begins. My husband isn't vegan but doesn't eat meat or dairy. He finds veganism a bit 'extreme' and that has caused problems here and there, so I am sympathetic, just can't imagine having such a wide gulf between views when it comes to such a huge issue. It may be 'just food', but it's ethics aswell, isn't it, and it's a DAILY issue. Also I don't understand how raising a baby as vegetarian is a good compromise?.

missbettie
Jun 29th, 2011, 08:44 PM
True....I mean it does cause issues in my relationship sometimes, and it is super frustrating....but it is what it is, i love my boyfriend and we have been together a long time so... we make it work...but he also doesn't refer to cows as food...though he does eat it from time to time... He never teases me about it, and he is very sensitive to me.

I kind of understand the compromise thing, its hard enough to raise a kid, I mean if you don't have a good support system to raise a child vegan that would be really hard too.... and there are a lot more convinience and kid foods that are vegetarian and not vegan...I understand what she is talking about but i can't really explain why or give a good enough response to that...

cobweb
Jun 29th, 2011, 08:50 PM
I do sort of get what you're saying........I raised my son as a veggie and even went veggie myself (from vegan) when I was pregnant, as a compromise. Now, when I look back, I feel angry that I was pressured into doing that. My son made the choice to go vegan when he was 7, but now he wonders why he wasn't raised as one, and what can I say?. If people keep doing what I did, what does that say about veganism?. That we aren't really confident about it as a good choice for our kids?.

I hope I haven't offended you with what I said, Rachel-Louise, I do understand that people can be great in many ways and still not get veganism, but I would be outraged if ANYONE told me, in seriousness, that they saw any animal as 'food'. Maybe you are a lot more tolerant than me x.

missbettie
Jun 29th, 2011, 08:55 PM
Good point cobby.

cobweb
Jun 29th, 2011, 09:00 PM
Good point cobby.

Hope I didn't offend you, either, Missb, I think I reacted partly because of my own guilt about the compromises I made when in the same situation :p

missbettie
Jun 29th, 2011, 09:10 PM
oh no of course not! i mean, i don't really have kids, i just get frustrated when people give up on relationships, i mean yes, there are certain ones that we should get out of, but IMO most people barely try anymore, relationships are a lot of work.

khadagan
Jun 29th, 2011, 09:21 PM
I do agree with that I don't see this as having to be a relationship breaker. I've been in this situation myself. I think it's ok to be in a relationship where someone has completely opposite views, some relationships just work fine like that eventhough it can be frustrating sometimes. If I couldn't accept others being non-vegan I would never have started a relationship with my partner or have non-vegan friends, I would have made a lot of different decisions in my life.

I don't feel vegetarian is a good compromise though. You're still supporting the same unhealthy and exploitative industry. And a child can always opt into being an omnivore later on in life, he or she won't be deprived until then.

Rachael-Louise
Jun 29th, 2011, 10:27 PM
Thankyou to all of you for your replies and advice.

Cobweb, in all honesty I did feel that your post was quite nasty, however you are completly entitled to your opinion and I am not looking for an argument so will leave it at that.
Our marriage has been 'trying' the past couple of months due to the fact that I came off my meds for MH illness due to being pregnant and I had a major relapse back in March and had to restart my medication, my husband stayed home from work for 2 months to be my sole carer, I was a mess, the worst I have ever been, I could not go to the toilet without him with me, he had to cook for me and put me to bed, he was my rock and stayed by me through what so far has been the hardest time of our marriage, so I do think our marriage is strong, or else we would not have made it through that.
The fact that if given the chance he would raise our boy as a meat eater and given the chance I would raise him vegan, the only 'fair' compramise is to raise him vegetarian.
He will eat mostly vegan anyway because I will be the one with him all the time and I will be talking to him about compassion towards animals before he can understand anyway and he will be taken to farms and animal sanctuaries all the time in the hope he will grow up with respect for every living being and not want to eat them, but that has to be his choice when he is old enough to understand the process for the meat to end up on the plate.
If he chooses to become vegan then obvioulsy I will be thrilled but if he does decide he wants to try or be a meat eater then that is his choice and I will respect that- yes I will probably have a few private tears but he is going to be brought up to make his own choice not be swayed by either of us.

missbettie
Jun 29th, 2011, 11:10 PM
very lovely RL. <3 Relationships are hard work! but hard with anyone you're with....it seems like you have a good mindset and your husband seems like a great guy. I think you guys will be able to work it out... :) unfortunately as I don't have children I'm not sure I will be able to give you good advice, but my thinking is, i'll be the one cooking anyways when I have kids, and everyone eats what I serve them so I don't think that meat will be a big issue unless my kids are with their grandparents. :)

cobweb
Jun 29th, 2011, 11:15 PM
I'm sorry if I upset you. The fact is, though, that any way you bring up your son, you are going to affect him and sway his choices, it's unavoidable. By giving your son cow milk you are making a statement that you think this is acceptable, aren't you?.
Again, sorry if I upset you, though you did post here looking for people's thoughts I guess?. I gave my views because I feel crappy about making 'compromises' that involved going against my strong beliefs, but you have to do what is right for your own family.
I'm guessing you won't be able to feed your son yourself if you're on meds?. That must tough for you.

Rachael-Louise
Jun 30th, 2011, 12:53 AM
Missbettie- Thankyou for your sweet post! :) He has his moments like all men lol, but most of the time he is a gem! :)
Cobweb- No hard feelings, dont worry! :) I can see where you are coming from and I do agree in a way, but I guess being veggie is not as 'cruel' as being a meat eater so that is where I have had to compramise, I am not happy about feeding him dairy and will avoid it where I can but I have had to come to the agreement due to the circumstances.
Nope, I cant breast feed due to meds, which is hard but I did not really have any alternative as if I did not restart my meds I probably would not be here now, so I guess that was a sacrifice I had to make for our little one in a way.

khadagan
Jun 30th, 2011, 03:44 AM
I do sort of get what you're saying........I raised my son as a veggie and even went veggie myself (from vegan) when I was pregnant, as a compromise. Now, when I look back, I feel angry that I was pressured into doing that. My son made the choice to go vegan when he was 7, but now he wonders why he wasn't raised as one, and what can I say?. If people keep doing what I did, what does that say about veganism?. That we aren't really confident about it as a good choice for our kids?.

I hope I haven't offended you with what I said, Rachel-Louise, I do understand that people can be great in many ways and still not get veganism, but I would be outraged if ANYONE told me, in seriousness, that they saw any animal as 'food'. Maybe you are a lot more tolerant than me x.

I would have to agree with you here about going veggie. To me that seems a really weird compromise and I just can't see it working. Would this mean that with you Rachel-louise your husband would be going veggie as well? Or would you compromise going veggie or only your child going veggie? I think vegetarianism is really unhealthy and the products used for veggies come from the same source as the meat does, so I don't see going veggie as a good thing. I'm sure there must be loads written about this topic in this forum in other threads. I can certainly understand what Cobweb is saying about looking back and being unhappy with having made this choice in the past.

And Rachel-Louise, it must be really tough getting of meds because of pregnancy. I'm pregnant again right now and I know how trying it can be in certain ways just purely on its own. It sounds like you've been through a really tough time. And your husband sounds sweet looking after you. I think that would be a trying time in everyone's marriage. My first pregnancy was really difficult because of entirely different reasons, I had some complications during pregnancy. I think if you get through this it can make your relationship better and stronger. It certainly brought me and my partner closer to eachother. Anyway, good luck with the rest of your pregnancy, I hope the rest will be easier than what you've experienced before.

The Lurker
Jun 30th, 2011, 07:49 AM
I'm a vegan with an omni wife albeit I was veggie when our kids were born. The kids started out omni then we agreed to change them to veggie around the time I went vegan - it's a compromise . . . I feed them vegan whenever I can but it's been a struggle to even convince people that them going veggie is the right thing to do. At the outset family members would sneakily feed them meat when I wasnt around and we even got threatened by a family member that she would report us to the police and social services unless my wife left me and took the kids because we are 'witholding meat' from them.

Relationships and raising a family isnt easy at the best of times and this issue seems to open up a world of shit for some reason. The one thing I regret is dithering around too much when the kids were first born - I should have raised the possibility of them being veggie from day 1 but didn't for various reasons . . . with this in mind I would really recommend getting the issue agreed as soon as possible so there are no arguments later and also so there is a consistent message communicated to family and friends who may have warped opinions or who may be involved in helping raise the children.

sandra
Jun 30th, 2011, 09:40 AM
If people keep doing what I did, what does that say about veganism?. That we aren't really confident about it as a good choice for our kids?

That is a very good point Cobweb.

Hi Rachel-Louise, I really hope you can work things out for the best...........not only for you but your baby too. Have you told your husband how hurtful some of his comments are to you? Does he fully understand how you feel? I think if he really knew how much those kind of comments hurt you he would not want to say them again either to you or your child, would he?
I think as you will be the one with your child the most it would be quite easy to raise him as a vegan and healthier too. For the first 6 months almost all a baby eats is milk anyway so you would only have to give him soya formula instead of cow's milk. After that it is very easy to make vegan meals for him, my children loved it when I gave them carrot and parsnip mashed up with some potato, followed by pureed fruit for dessert. I mean those shop bought baby meals are just the same sort of thing only they cost a small fortune! :(
I really don't understand the attitudes of some meat eaters, Lurker said someone was going to report him to the police for 'witholding meat' from his children. When do you ever hear of vegans threatening to report parents for witholding vegetables from their children?
I know it's hard for you and your husband to come to an amicable compromise over this but I really hope for your child's sake you are able to. All the very best. :)

FaerieSuzy
Jun 30th, 2011, 10:39 AM
I don't know about a book for a child, but what about Peter Cox's 'Why you don't need meat' for your husband?I know it's a little dated and I'm sure you've explained health benefits etc with him before but if the root of the problem is worrying about nutrition for your child (might or might not be!) this gives lots of plain facts and numbers about avoiding disease, the health risks meat can pose etc and might make him feel a little better about why you would like to raise a child vegan. This book particularly seems to be more scientific than emotionally driven and might allow him to mull over some health facts when not in the heat of an argument. My family friend's son wanted to give up meat when he was about 7 years old but his mum wouldn't allow it because she was scared it would stunt his growth and he would be malnourished, maybe if she hadn't been so misinformed she may have made a different decision. :) Hope this helps and I'll let you know if I hear of any child friendly books, though Watership Down can still do it for me! And Chicken Run the film might loosely put across a message that the chickens don't want to be eaten. Ok now I'm waffling.....

harpy
Jun 30th, 2011, 10:42 AM
I think as you will be the one with your child the most it would be quite easy to raise him as a vegan

I was thinking this as well. On the assumption that you will be doing most of the feeding couldn't you just go ahead and feed the sprog vegan food, rather than having a big confrontation about it in advance?

I also wonder whether your other half is saying some of these things about seeing cows as food etc because he is feeling under pressure and is sort of on the defensive? If you can stop discussing it for a while it may turn out that he is more on your wavelength than you think. A lot of people are like that: in fact if I feel people are telling me what to do it makes me want to go and do the exact opposite :devil:

Hope it works out well for you.

Rachael-Louise
Jun 30th, 2011, 12:55 PM
Thankyou again for your advice everyone.
I did want to go ahead and feed him a soy formula but we have been advised against it by health profesionals so obviously my husband has taken that fully on board and so we hae had to agree to disagree and will be feeding Aptimil. But when he is beeing weening I will be blending up mixes for him so I will be in 'control' over what he eats anyway and it will be mostly vegan.

sandra
Jun 30th, 2011, 01:43 PM
Thankyou again for your advice everyone.
I did want to go ahead and feed him a soy formula but we have been advised against it by health profesionals

Hope things go well for you. :)

I love the way 'health professionals' advocate feeding cow's milk to babies as being 'healthy'...............when it's full of hormones and cholesterol, and then they wonder why even children these days are showing signs of cholesterol build up in their arteries. :(

khadagan
Jun 30th, 2011, 02:24 PM
Thankyou again for your advice everyone.
I did want to go ahead and feed him a soy formula but we have been advised against it by health profesionals so obviously my husband has taken that fully on board and so we hae had to agree to disagree and will be feeding Aptimil. But when he is beeing weening I will be blending up mixes for him so I will be in 'control' over what he eats anyway and it will be mostly vegan.

When my daughter was born we had some talk about baby formula as well since they wanted to supplement her with formula because of a few different reasons. I didn't have to supplement at all in the end, so I stopped looking into it. But we were given the same advice about soy formula, someone told me soy formula is mostly glucose and it doesn't stand up to other formulas, not so much talking about it being cows milk. I also don't think soy formula is 100% vegan.

The Lurker
Jun 30th, 2011, 02:26 PM
If Soy formula wasn't appropriate surely it wouldn't be available on the market? Sounds like a 'health professional' who wants to 'stick to what you know' . .

khadagan
Jun 30th, 2011, 02:35 PM
I'm a vegan with an omni wife albeit I was veggie when our kids were born. The kids started out omni then we agreed to change them to veggie around the time I went vegan - it's a compromise . . . I feed them vegan whenever I can but it's been a struggle to even convince people that them going veggie is the right thing to do. At the outset family members would sneakily feed them meat when I wasnt around and we even got threatened by a family member that she would report us to the police and social services unless my wife left me and took the kids because we are 'witholding meat' from them.

Relationships and raising a family isnt easy at the best of times and this issue seems to open up a world of shit for some reason. The one thing I regret is dithering around too much when the kids were first born - I should have raised the possibility of them being veggie from day 1 but didn't for various reasons . . . with this in mind I would really recommend getting the issue agreed as soon as possible so there are no arguments later and also so there is a consistent message communicated to family and friends who may have warped opinions or who may be involved in helping raise the children.

I completely agree with that it would be best to get this issue agreed on, you really don't want to have returning discussions about what your kid eats or drinks. And also on sending this message towards friends and family members so they know what to do.

And that certain family member of you sounds vile! Such a shame that some people are so misinformed.