View Full Version : My post in a milk thread :) ooops I've done it again!

Jan 27th, 2012, 01:38 PM
On a biking forum I use there is a thread about milk. I thought I'd contribute.


I'm Rebelistic on there BTW. My post is on page 2. It's a forum populated by young men (trials is mainly done by young men & boys sadly).
I have the usual intellectual responces but a couple of them claim to have lived/worked on farms so they guess they know far more than me about dairy. Maybe some of what I said was inaccurate?

Anyone know more about dairy production (UK) care to give me any factual info to respond with?

I assume that for the most part milk comes from factory farms and the odd little freerange type farm that these guys suggest is the usual practice is actually the exception?

I probably shouldn't have said anything but I think if one person buys one less bottle of milk because of what I've said then it's worth it.

The responces dissapoint me though, it's like no one really gives a damn and enjoy making fun of the suffering of others.

Jan 27th, 2012, 04:47 PM
Anyone? Please, just a link or something?

I really need factual info about what is standard practice in the UK. No worst cases just the production method of the average milk.

As you can see I'm getting flamed rather rudely. I could do with the real facts.

Jan 27th, 2012, 04:55 PM
Hi, I didn't read all the responses to your post, but in my (limited) understanding is that in the UK antibiotics are not routeinely used on healthy animals, I have no idea about the numbers of lactose intollerant people you suggested (perhaps cite sources in future?), hadn't heard about the pus levels, and I think I read somewhere (though I have NO idea where, or how reliable the source was) that some more recent scientific studies disproved (or at least failed to prove - which isn't the same thing) the milk/mucus production connection, though it is still commonly believed...

I don't know the extent of intensively farmed (zero grazing) dairy cattle in the uk, I know there are free range, and partial grazing systems used. Obviously the issues about impregnation (usually through artificial insemination), repeated calving and milking, calf/mother separation distress, unwanted calves being shot, sold for meat/veal (becoming more common as is considered more humane and less wastefull than slaughtering/shooting at birth), and the slaughtering of exhausted dairy cows after a fraction of their natural life expectancy (and the horrifying shortcomings in livestock transportation and slaughter practice) are all significant issues - even in the supposedly more humane free-range organic systems.

The Vegan Society and The Vegetarian society both have well written factsheets on their websites about farming methods in the uk, including statistics and citing sources, I think they might be a good place to look for information, and I hope they're relatively accurate - but I have not checked the sources for myself).

I think it's great that you're compelled to speak out, and I urge you to arm yourself with as much reliable information as possible so you can answer other people's questions/arguments effectively. If we can calmly, patiently drip-feed accurate information to people, I think a large proportion of people will begin to make more ethical choices, eventually resulting in better animal welfare and veganism becoming mainstream... The world won't change overnight, for so many reasons, not least of all social/economic considerations. I think it will come eventually if people are well informed and given the resources to make up their own minds. HTH, Good luck!

Jan 27th, 2012, 05:03 PM
Any points in particular? It's hard to dispute some of it other than to say that it's only done for the benefit of the farmer and not out of some noble charity to the animal.

Jan 27th, 2012, 06:59 PM
Thanks. It's things like weather or not UK dairy cows are routinely given antibiotics not just when they are ill. I was sure I heard that was the case but maybe I'm wrong?

I'm a fool. I should have been more careful and only stated what I know to be true. If a person makes a a single false claim it tends to weaken the rest of what they say even if it is true. If a person states the worst case scenario as if it is standard practice it also weakens the rest of what they say. I hope I haven't done bad here. I'll do one more post there soon to try and 'clear things up'.

Jan 27th, 2012, 07:09 PM
This thread might be helpful


Jan 27th, 2012, 07:22 PM
You can always affirm statements that have not been disputed. "So we agree that xxx" etc.

Jan 27th, 2012, 07:53 PM
Cheers. I think I've kind of finished posting in the thread ok. I don't wont to come a cross as too provocative there but still wanted to offer the view that maybe milk isn't a good thing for humans (or cows).