boycotting countries = extreme hypocricy

[Magnus]

Hello! I am new here so i dont know where i should post this, but i think this might be the right part of the forum.I have noticed lately that many animal activits choose to boycott entire nations because of what these nations does towards certain animals, like for example people who boycott China and South Korea because of their dog/cat fur and meat industry, people who boycott Canada for the annual seal slaughter, people who boycott Japan and Iceland for their whaling industry etc, while they have all their rights to do this i just have to say that in my opinion they are extreme hypocrites that shouldn't call themselves for animal activists. ALL nations in the world does terrible things towards animals, and the United States itself is actually one of the most polluting and animal abusing nations in the entire world, just look at the annual slaughter of turkeys for Thanksgiving, how the farm animals like pigs, cows, sheeps and hens are treated at farms and slaughter houses, not to mention the chickens who gets their beaks burnt off at McDonalds chicken nuggets factories etc, yet the most of these so called "animal activists" who boycotts Japan because of whaling are very likely to buy American products, their arguments is often that "whales are intelligent", yes that's true, BUT SO ARE THE PIGS! Yet, pigs are treated like garbage on American farms and slaughterhouses, pigs are indeed very intelligent animals. I am totally against whaling just like i am against all animal abuse, i support the Sea Shepherd for their actions against the whaling industry, but unfortuently alot of the Sea Shepherd supporters are extreme hypocrites, for a while ago i joined a Sea Shepherd-support forum, and i was saddened to find out that the most folks at that forum had no kind of respect for other animals, they even had a "Happy Thanksgiving!" thread where everyone talked about how tasty the turkey was this year. These people should be ashamed of themselves and they should know that the Sea Shepherd are vegans who actually loves all animals, no meat or other animal products is allowed on the Sea Shepherd vessels, many of their members are also active Greenpeace supporters etc. So if you boycott Japan or China, take a look at how domestic animals are treated in your own country, not just if you live in the United States, but any country, cause animal abuse happens everywere. The country i live in, Sweden, is just as bad as the United States when it comes to how domestic animals are treated.

[harpy]

Hello, I agree that there is animal abuse everywhere, and that abusing pigs etc is just as bad as abusing whales or whatever.

Even so, perhaps there could be a case for a boycott to protest against a particular practice? It wouldn't stop people also campaigning against abuse in their own countries. The South African boycotts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Apartheid_Movement) arguably did some good, even though no doubt there was racism in the countries of the protesters as well. Not sure if any of the current boycotts have the same focus or chances of success though.

[sandra]

Sadly, there is animal abuse everywhere in the world. I don't view one country as being better or worse than any other with regard to their treatment of animals.
I believe education is the way forward. Humans need to be educated and learn that animals are living beings too and deserve respect. Until they realise this fact they will continue in their barbaric treatment of animals whether it be whaling, killing seals, dogs, cats, pigs, cows..............all these animals deserve respect no matter what part of the world they live in.

[Magnus]

Hello, I agree that there is animal abuse in all countries and that abusing pigs etc is just as bad as abusing whales or whatever.

Even so, perhaps there could be a case for a boycott to protest against a particular practice? It wouldn't stop people also campaigning against abuse in their own countries. The South African boycotts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Apartheid_Movement) arguably did some good, even though no doubt there was racism in the countries of the protesters as well. Not sure if any of the current boycotts have the same focus or chances of success though.To begin with i dont find these boycotts compareable. South Africa at the time was the only nation in the world that had an apartheid policy (while every single nation in the world is abusing animals, and not just one nation), and it was so much more than just a boycott, it was international embargos, in some countries, like Sweden for example, it was even illegal to import South African products. And there is just not one nation that hunts whales, it's pretty many if you include aboriginal peoples rights to hunt whales, it's not just Japan, but also Iceland, Norway and the Faroe Islands, and if you include countries were aboriginal people has whaling rights (despite the fact that there is natural food available), then we also have the United States, Canada, Greenland, Russia, Indonesia and South Korea on the list of whaling nations.
I am also shocked to see all the blatant racism in anti-whaling communities, they often have comments like "nuke Japan!", "damn filthy japs!" and "thank god for the tsunami!", by the same people who will most likely happely eat their McDonalds burgers the same day

[harpy]

Yes, I see what you mean about it being more than a boycott - that's partly what I meant about the current campaigns having less focus and being less likely to succeed.

However I still think the comparison works to the extent that racism was also very prevalent in some of the countries involved in the anti-apartheid campaign (like the UK for example) yet on the whole it seems to be a good thing that those countries did what they good to help bring about the end of apartheid. Participating in the campaign against apartheid didn't stop people campaigning against racism in their own countries.

I completely agree that people shouldn't be racist when campaigning against whaling etc, and that they should be consistent in their approach to different countries and different animals.

[Ladygold]

I just read on facebook a persons racist comments about the eating dog industry in a animal rights group. I wont repeat the hate speech here but this is really getting old and clouding the point. I am also getting tired of this obsession people are having about the dogs / whales / seals issues.
I am a abolitionist vegan and do think all animal use and abuse is wrong but hearing someone complain about the dogs while eating a cow burger is ticking me off.
I do not think hypocrisy is limited to the vegan realms and just hope humans will get better with more knowledge.

(I did report the racist comments btw not letting that stuff go by on my watch lol)

LG

[Risker]

So if you boycott Japan or China, take a look at how domestic animals are treated in your own country, not just if you live in the United States, but any country, cause animal abuse happens everywere. The country i live in, Sweden, is just as bad as the United States when it comes to how domestic animals are treated.

I don't boycott products from any country but I don't agree with you. Animal abuse happening everywhere doesn't mean that some countries are worse than others. In China for example there are no animal cruelty laws. The USA may kill millions/billions of animals a year but at least there are some laws to prosecute people who are cruel.

Ever seen a crush video? If you're squeamish I suggest you don't look it up.

[Ladygold]

I just looked up what a crush video was because I thought I needed to know and it is horrible. I am very open with many things but that is messed up!!!!

I will happily stay 100% judgmental on this.

LG

[sandra]

Yes, I judge human beings as a whole, and sadly the majority of humans regard animals as either food or entertainment. I find human attitudes to animals sick and very strange generally. :(

[Mymblesdaughter]

Magnus , I understand what your saying and find it annoying myself when people have no compassion for one animal and then will got to great lengths to help another. I do boycott countries that I think are particularly cruel to animals. I won't go to Spain because I can't stand the fact they kill animals for fun or as some kind of celebration in their festivals. Some time you can feel very powerless and boycotting a country or product can make you feel like you are doing something. I think maybe though it's because it makes me feel better by not associating myself with certain companies and places.

[Blueberries]

I won't go to Spain because I can't stand the fact they kill animals for fun or as some kind of celebration in their festivals.

I have a few issues with this.
Firstly that is very insulting to Spanish people. You are assuming that every single Spanish person is sadistic and is involved in and agrees with bull-fighting and running, which is not the case. There are alot of anti-bullfighting and vegan groups in Spain, and its a hugely political issue. Secondly you aren't acknowleding the many festivals in Spain that don't use animals.
Thirdly, if you're concerned about boycotting bull-fights, there is also bull-fighting in the south of France.
Fourthly if I were to boycott every country that's cruel to animals I'd have to go live on the moon. There are much more constructive methods of activism than judging a country on one aspect, it'd be like if someone boycotted England just because of the Grand National.

[Ladygold]

I agree with Blueberries Wholeheartedly

Does that mean its ok to boycott Canada because of the Rodeo? I and many others here are against it and protest but we should dismiss the entire country because of some people???

Dividing humans among these lines is a short trip to utter racism in my book and I have no desire to ever lead a movement that is based on compassion to that end.


LG

[Mymblesdaughter]

Where did I say that all Spanish people are sadistic and involved in animal cruelty? I wouldn't go to certain countries because of their human right records either. I don't have a problem with people boycotting this country, I wouldn't personally be insulted, there are many things about this country that I hate especially at the moment. I don't think it's insulting to Spanish people, if you boycott a country and then write to the government to let them know you won't be spending your money there because of their policies. Bullfighting and running are only one aspect of what goes on, there's setting bulls on fire, beating donkeys to death etc. I feel particularly strongly about animals used in sports and entertainment have spent a lot of my life campaigning against it. I've also worked at one of the main anti bullfighting organisations in this country who work along side Spanish and French organisations. So boycotting is only one small aspect of it.

Bullfighting also goes on in America.

[Blueberries]

Where did I say that all Spanish people are sadistic and involved in animal cruelty? I wouldn't go to certain countries because of their human right records either. I don't have a problem with people boycotting this country, I wouldn't personally be insulted, there are many things about this country that I hate especially at the moment. I don't think it's insulting to Spanish people, if you boycott a country and then write to the government to let them know you won't be spending your money there because of their policies. Bullfighting and running are only one aspect of what goes on, there's setting bulls on fire, beating donkeys to death etc. I feel particularly strongly about animals used in sports and entertainment have spent a lot of my life campaigning against it. I've also worked at one of the main anti bullfighting organisations in this country who work along side Spanish and French organisations. So boycotting is only one small aspect of it.

Bullfighting also goes on in the America.

I know you didn't say that directly, but by boycotting a country you're sending a message that you disagree with that country as a whole. Cultures are multi-faceted, not just the sum of select customs. I understand your anger at the fact that people think cruelty and exploition is amusing, every vegan deals with that, and I couldn't commend you higher for getting involved in anti-bull fighting organisations. I think protesting the practice is better than protesting the country, its sending a clearer and more specific message.

[harpy]

I can't quite understand what the disagreement is here. Surely everyone is free not to go to a country if they don't want to for whatever reason. And not going there doesn't in itself send any sort of message. Writing to tell the government that you're not going because of the animal cruelty would send a message, of course, but then you would presumably specify that your objection was to animal cruelty - so why would anyone think it was some kind of blanket objection to Spanish people?

(You can send the messages regardless of whether you go, of course - I'm sure I have written to complain to the Spanish government or tourist board about bullfighting but I have also been to Spain, albeit to Barcelona where it was in the process of being banned if I remember correctly.)

I must admit I am a bit hesitant to visit some parts of the world for hols because I know I will witness cruelty to animals (or people) there - I wouldn't describe it as a boycott, it's more because I'm squeamish, but surely it's my choice either way?

[Blueberries]

I can't quite understand what the disagreement is here. Surely everyone is free not to go to a country if they don't want to for whatever reason. And not going there doesn't in itself send any sort of message. Writing to tell the government that you're not going because of the animal cruelty would send a message, of course, but then you would presumably specify that your objection was to animal cruelty - so why would anyone think it was some kind of blanket objection to Spanish people?

(You can send the messages regardless of whether you go, of course - I'm sure I have written to complain to the Spanish government or tourist board about bullfighting but I have also been to Spain, albeit to Barcelona where it was in the process of being banned if I remember correctly.)

I must admit I am a bit hesitant to visit some parts of the world for hols because I know I will witness cruelty to animals (or people) there - I wouldn't describe it as a boycott, it's more because I'm squeamish, but surely it's my choice either way?

I agree that everyone has the choice to go wherever they like, I'd definately agree thay there are some places I'd rather go to than others, but what I'm saying, as others have said, is that you can't really isolate any specific countries as being crueler to animals than any others. All countries are responsible for animal cruelty and exploitation. Travelling for me is about experiencing other cultures and there is much more to a culture than specific cruel rituals.

Maybe MymblesD touched a nerve for me because I have lived in Spain and am very fond of the country.

[harpy]

Say we got some Spanish animal rights people to write to the UK government to say they wouldn't holiday in Britain because of the badger cull? Might be quite helpful actually!

[Mymblesdaughter]

Yes, I like the idea Harpy.

I am quite surprised that what I thought was a pretty uncontroversial post seemed to have caused such outrage from Blueberries. I love Italy have lived there and continue to visit and take an interest in it's politics and culture but I find many things about the country that I don't like. I feel the same about the UK.

I found this site listing active boycotts which people might find interesting and yes ladygold Canada is on the list. http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts/currentboycottslist.aspx

[Magnus]

Always remember that each region in Spain has their own laws, for example in the Canary Islands and Catalonia, bull fighting is banned.

[Ladygold]

I am very confused I thought you said above you would not go to Spain because you do not like the way they treat animals?

"I won't go to Spain because I can't stand the fact they kill animals for fun or as some kind of celebration in their festivals."

Thanks for the links but I think we have a different view on boycotting but either way If there is one person in a country that does not believe animals are ok to be used to there own ends then I will not right it off.

LG


Yes, I like the idea Harpy.

I am quite surprised that what I thought was a pretty uncontroversial post seemed to have caused such outrage from Blueberries. I love Italy have lived there and continue to visit and take an interest in it's politics and culture but I find many things about the country that I don't like. I feel the same about the UK.

I found this site listing active boycotts which people might find interesting and yes ladygold Canada is on the list. http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts/currentboycottslist.aspx

[Mymblesdaughter]

I don't know why you are confused Ladygold. I think we look at boycotts in different ways, I don't consider it writing off a country. As Harpy said if Spanish people refused to come to the UK because of the badger cull I would think it was a great thing.

Out of interest would you never consider boycotting a country for example somewhere like Zimbabwe because there are lots of good people there. I thing there's a important distinction between criticising a state and a race.

[Ladygold]

I said I was confused because I thought you had said you did not travel to Spain then in the next post said you did.

I understand not buying products from organizations you do not respect and more power to you. I personally start feeling weary when people go against a entire country because even though you might not be thinking along race lines that is going to be a part of it.

It is starting to sound more and more about single issue campaigns lately which I do not think will change the status of animals. For example that is happening in Korea right now with dogs. More and more race hate language is coming out every day.

Maybe its because I am sensitive to this issue I am not understanding this in the way you mean? Like many others above every country does not treat animals well so I will not be boycotting any countries for that reason.

I am actually asking this honestly, How do people boycott a country without it becoming a race issue? And have you seen the anti Korean backlash that has been going on lately?

LG

[Mordechai]

I guess we are boycotting meat industry yes?
Does this mean we boycott meat eaters as they support eating meat?

My father eats meat, does that mean all this that he supports I should boycott?
Father does some great things for the world, for compassion, similarly does a state?
A government may have some pain inspiring policies however could also have some peace inspiring ones?
Plot thickens?

[harpy]

I said I was confused because I thought you had said you did not travel to Spain then in the next post said you did.



I said I'd been to Spain - not sure Mymblesdaughter did though?

I'm not convinced "boycott" is the right term for one individual choosing not to visit a country, or buy stuff from it, because of a particular practice. To me "boycott" evokes an organised group action?

I can see why it's a senstive topic but I don't really think boycotts are racist per se - they are generally a protest against a particular activity of a country rather than the country as a whole, surely? The boycott of South African products etc was encouraged by black South African activists as far as I remember, as they thought it would help them end apartheid. Similarly I gather Spanish animal rights people campaigning against bullfighting and so on invite overseas support, though obviously support doesn't necessarily mean not visiting the country.

[Ladygold]

Your right I was wrong I thought It was Spain not Italy, I apologize Mymblesdaughter. When I say I am confused I am not trying for sarcasm I actual mean confused. This topic seems to have become tense and that was not my intent. I am here to learn and talk about things.

@harpy Thats what boycott means to me, a organized group action.

Comparing apartheid laws in south Africa and how boycotting helped change them is not the same thing to me as animal rights because in the end I do not think any country is better.

I never said all boycotts are racists I do believe boycotting an entire country for these reasons easily can be turned that way.

I agree with the original post.

And now I will wish everyone a great day :)

LG