Will raising a baby vegan prevent him from eating meat in the future?

[glosoli]

Hello, I'm new to the forums.

I'm a new vegan, I was a vegetarian for 6 years.
I plan to raise my son vegan. He's 6 months soon.

However, my brother informed me that if I don't ever feed him meat he wont develop the enzymes to consume meat and will get sick if he tries when he's older.

I want to teach my son about how food gets to his plate and lead him on the right path. But by no means want to force my diet on him, once he's fully aware of the facts but still wants to eat meat.

I want consuming meat to be an option for him if he so chooses.
At a certain point I can only hope for the best.

Is is true, that if he lives a vegan life he'll never be able to eat meat when he's an adult if he wants to?

[Mymblesdaughter]

No, I've never even heard that argument before and I haven't eaten meat for 36 years so thought I'd heard them all. Although I find it hard to believe anyone would want to eat meat after being brought up not to eat any, it does happen. I'm sure if you did try to eat meat after never consuming it it would mess up your digestive system for a while.

[Peabrain]

I have heard that argument. But I'd say this; all human babies are vegetarian at the least in the first few months/years of their lives and somehow their bodies adapt... Which shows both a) a vegan diet can be very healthy for infants (as long as you look into good nutrition there's no reason they can't flourish), and b) it is possible to start eating meat later on without any catastrophic allergic reaction... However, if we only grow to "tolerate" certain foods such as meat and milk, surely it's more healthy to avoid them?

I too think that the best way to deal with it is to feed my children vegan diets and teach them the reasons for a vegan life, with an acknowledgment that once they are a certain age they can choose whether or not to eat meat. I have heard of vegan children growing up and becoming non-vegan, but of course many stay vegan, and at the very least I know I'm protecting my children from the horrible paradox of letting them play with cuddly animal toys and then serving them a slice at dinner time.

[harpy]

If you Google you will find a few articles suggesting that if vegetarians or vegans do want to start eating meat they do better by introducing it gradually than suddenly eating a lot at once.

Personally I think it's highly unlikely that it would cause major problems though. From what I have read, humans' ability to adapt quickly to different diets depending on what was available was probably a reason that the species succeeded (in evolutionary terms).

Anyway I bet if anyone had had big problems we would have heard of it as people tend to use every possible argument against bringing your children up vegetarian and vegan :rolleyes:

With any luck as Mymblesdaughter says the question won't arise.

[Andy_T]

I have not heard that for meat, but as far as I know it is true for dairy products.

To be precise ... all animals (including human) are "designed" to consume milk in their infancy, and have the hormones etc. to digest it. Once they are weaned, however, the ability to digest milk is lost ... unless that animal continues to consume milk after infancy (which is what happens with "normal", i.e. omnivorous people in "Western societies"), which is not a natural thing.

But allow me one question - why, in the world, would you "not want to force your diet onto your child"?
Every child is forced into its parents diet, but normally it is a horrible nonvegan diet that the child is forced to adopt.

I understand that you might also not want to "force your views" on drug consumption, alcoholism and theft on your child, but I maybe would not try to do this by feeding him small doses of drugs and booze now and then and encouraging him to go shoplifting once in a while.

Best regards,
Andy

PS: Also, if what you have heard was true, what makes you think that, if your kid as an adult realizes that eating meet makes him sick (on top of being the opposite of compassionate and revolting to top it), he would still want to consume it and hate you for preventing him from doing so?

[Clueless Git]

If you Google you will find a few articles suggesting that if vegetarians or vegans do want to start eating meat they do better by introducing it gradually than suddenly eating a lot at once.
Which, as has already been pointed out, is how omnis force their views upon their innocent born vegetarian, and if left to their own devices vegetarian for life, babies in the first place.

Weaning, in omni-land, is nothing less than toxifying babies by stealth with filth that they otherwise wouldnt touch with a ten foot barge pole.

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I want consuming meat to be an option for him if he so chooses.

Any other forms of animal cruelty or environmental vandalism you want to keep as open options for him at any time he later so chooses?

No offence intended. Simply making a point.

[Peabrain]

I understand that you might also not want to "force your views" on drug consumption, alcoholism and theft on your child, but I maybe would not try to do this by feeding him small doses of drugs and booze now and then and encouraging him to go shoplifting once in a while.


Any other forms of animal cruelty or environmental vandalism you want to keep as open options for him at any time he later so chooses?

Cupid & Andy, no need to make such provocative remarks, try to remember that the original poster is a NEW vegan, with a young baby, and some other loved ones who are not vegan... She's probably still navigating the various issues (BTW glosoli, I'm also quite new - not trying to sound like a know it all)... We all started somewhere and the various issues/beliefs don't all slot in perfectly at once. I think she just means that should her child decide to make that choice (when our children grow they sometimes do make choices that are completely against our core beliefs), she just wanted to be sure there wasn't some physical health issue that might occur. As Andy said, it can be the case with milk/lactose intolerance, and there is a mountain of incorrect information we all have to relearn when we come to this road.


PS: Also, if what you have heard was true, what makes you think that, if your kid as an adult realizes that eating meet makes him sick (on top of being the opposite of compassionate and revolting to top it), he would still want to consume it and hate you for preventing him from doing so?

Yes I agree there, I reckon it's safe to say he'd at the very least appreciate you were doing the kind thing.

[harpy]

It makes complete sense for parents to choose vegan diets for their young children and educate them about that choice. At the same time, once the children grow up it seems quite laudable for the parents to want them to go on being vegan because they believe it's right, rather than because they have no choice.

Would people really want to make moral decisions for their adult children, instead of providing them with guidance and information and then allowing them to make their own decisions? If you could implant a device into your child that made them sick every time they ate meat, would that be OK too?

Anyway, I'd say the evidence is that those brought up vegetarian or vegan do have a choice. I've actually come across one or two people who were vegetarian as children and then decided to eat meat when they were older, though they often seem to go back to being vegetarian later.

[tickled onion]

When your son is grown, if the most he could complain about from his childhood is that you prevented him eating meat then i'd say you had done a pretty good job, kids will always dislike something about their childhood no matter how hard you try, you can only do what you think is right at the time.

[glosoli]

When I said I don't want to force my lifestyle on him I meant when he's an adult. My concerns are regarding whether or not he will have an adverse reaction to it because he's never had it in his youth. I realize that feeding your kids meat is also forcing your lifestyle on them, however I wasn't talking about my sons upbringing.

I just want to make sure that, even after I explain why we're a vegan family, why it's wrong to consume meat and animal by products..that if one day when he's 20 and out with his buddies (or at school and peer pressured into eating peperroni pizza) it won't result in a visit to the hospital.

[Hedi]

On another vegan forum a very sad mother explained that after raising her son to be a vegan for 16 years, he now decided to eat at McDonald's (gotta love puberty!). She said nothing about him getting sick, so I don't think it's true. Apparently it does work that way for dairy. Most people will loose a lot of the enzymes to digest dairy when they are a few years old, but if they keep consuming dairy they will mostly remain to be able to digest some of it. If you stop consuming dairy altogether you probably can't eat it anymore in the future (but who cares, it's probably the most unhealthy food out there, and lots of people are lactose-intolerant anyway).

[harpy]

I noticed that I seemed to have become lactose intolerant when I was an adult lacto-vegetarian so there doesn't seem to be a straightforward causal link. Quite interesting speculation here http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask135

[Hedi]

Interesting article. But whatever it is that makes it harder to digest milk, I believe your body is giving you a clear sign: hey, it's time to quit consuming this stuff (you big baby!). "Around 75% of the world's adults can't drink a lot of milk." and therefore probably for a really good reason!

It saddens me that whenever an infant is lactose intolerant, a GP will recommend the parents to give a dairy-based lactose free formula. I mean, hello! The baby getting sick wasn't a clear enough sign for you? Your baby's body obviously doesn't want any cow's milk! It's not supposed to eat grass, only has one stomach and probably doesn't have any hooves or a tail either?

[Festered]

It sounds like a load of b0llocks to me does that, and even if there's any truth in it, is probably not going to be a hospital trip job, more like if your child grows up and eats a meal containing meat, he may feel a bit sick or get a bit of gut-ache-nothing worse. Similar to somebody who never eats spicy food suddenly developing a liking for it, if your body isn't used to something it can and often will, react unfavourably but humans can consume more or less anything, unless there's something by medical definition, wrong with them.
You're doing the right thing for you and your vegan family-bring your son up healthy and informed and whatever the future brings , I seriously doubt anything'll fall apart/off if he does so choose to be daft and eat something with meat :)
I understand WHY people have been hostile, but I think it's unnecessary We're all vegans here-we've all made that amazing choice for our worlds and we're here TOGETHER. You're having a pop at the wrong person/people. Be realistic, she was asking a genuine, serious and valid question.

[Clueless Git]

Cupid & Andy, no need to make such provocative remarks ..

I am 100% sure that I speak for Andy also when I say that thought is all we would ever wish to provoke PB.

Something I have posted about a few times but you may not have read: As a child my father used to take me to our local slaughterhouse where I would sit at the killing gate and watch the entire process from beginning to end. Looked directly into the eye of dumbly terrified animal after animal after animal from only a few feet away and watched the life they blindly clung to snuffed out as the bolt gun blew holes through their skulls and mashed up their brains.

You kinda become oblivious to the harshness of the harshest words once you have witnessed the harshness of the reality of that.

[Peabrain]

I'm sure thought is all you ever wish to provoke. I don't doubt either of your good intentions, and I never said they were not good points. Yet I find they way you deliver it to be potentially provocative of not just thought, but a sense of judgement or alienation when someone is merely asking for advice. I don't think glosoli actually ever said she wanted her child to eat meat, did she?

As for your childhood experiences at the abattoir, I have read what you have shared before, and felt a deep sense of empathy (to the point I have imagined going back in time and taking you right away from that), as a mother, I feel especially that what some people were exposed to as children is extremely abusive (although I doubt anyone intended that abuse, they were doing what they thought best, in a misguided way, to help teach the perceived "realities" of the world)... I cannot possibly imagine the abject horror of witnessing it first hand; and as a child too.

However, you did go on to be a meat eater, you did subsequently have an "enlightenment" about veganism, and I'm sure you had to relearn a lot of stuff. I'm just saying let's not jump upon new vegans. The risk of alienating someone is real, and yes, it's nothing, NOTHING, compared to what these beautiful creatures go through (I'm sure no-one here doubts that), but when someone is "coming to" about these various issues they are voluntarily exposing themselves to the kind of feelings/experiences/pain you would have had the first time to saw what you did. You remember that, don't you? It's hard as a child, but it's also hard as an adult.

I'm just saying that there is IMHO, a responsibility to be welcoming and encouraging, rather than making comments, which as well meaning as they are, may cause pain that stops someone from opening up to us.

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BTW, glosoli, I realise I have presumed you are a woman, if not, I apologise! ;)

[Clueless Git]

I don't think glosoli actually ever said she wanted her child to eat meat, did she?

Since clarified but actualy, in the original context, yes ..



I want consuming meat to be an option for him if he so chooses.

As I say; Since clarified.

[Peabrain]

Yes. Since clarified. But no, I still didn't read that, even before the clarification, as wanting the child to eat meat, but for the option to be physically able to (the qualifier being "the option to"). Within this context:


my brother informed me that if I don't ever feed him meat he wont develop the enzymes to consume meat and will get sick if he tries when he's older.

I want to teach my son about how food gets to his plate and lead him on the right path. But by no means want to force my diet on him, once he's fully aware of the facts but still wants to eat meat.

That to me, meant that if, once the child was fully understanding of the situation and should happen to choose to try it, or even convert to a non-vegan diet, glosoli didn't want to be unintentionally adding to the perceived potential (stated by her brother) for illness.

The power of media is strong, we don't all know right off the bat if meat is needed or not, and as some people strongly believe it is, glosoli was doing the responsible thing imo, of checking that with people who may have actual experience of whether or not meat is actually just a tolerated habit resultant of the fact that we've taught our bodies to handle it, much as milk is.

[Andy_T]

It always opens my heart when I read here or on another forum about people who have never in their live ate meat because their parents raised them vegan or vegetarian. My impression is, that this must be one of the best gifts you could make to a child.

And I do think that yes, there is a good chance that such a kid would then willingly decide to go on living as a vegan or vegetarian (but s/he might also decide, at some point, be if because of rebellion or because of truly believing they are missing something terribly important to start consuming dead animals).

My guess, however is, if that, would then result in nausea or sickness (if living vegan truly led to the inability to consume meat), they would rather think that it is not a really good idea instead of cursing their parents for forcing something upon them that they really do not want.

On the other hand, what is the message of a vegan family feeding their kid meat? Please think it through!

It could very well give the impression that the parents (or at least one of the parents) live a lifestyle that they are not truly convinced of or that they think might be unhealthy for the kid. If you yourself are firmly convinced that consuming animal products is wrong, but would feed your kid, who can not make his own decision, then you are FORCING a lifestyle on him that you for yourself consider wrong. What would your kid think about that with 6 years of age, when he can understand himself? Yes, mummy and daddy are not eating animals because it is wrong to kill them, but YOU should continue doing it?

I apologize if my very strong feelings on this subject come across wrongly, so I tried to wrap them in irony (sarcasm more likely).
(On the other hand, I also do NOT see the need to change a single character of what I wrote earlier in the thread)

I ate meat for the first 20 years of my life because my parents forced it on me. Granted, they did not "force-feed" me meat, and they were not inherently bad people, they just did what everybody else was also doing. But it never occured to me to do anything else until I started questioning the subject (at around 13) and then it took me some more years to get around the idea "Yes, it would be RIGHT to live as a vegetarian, but *sigh* I could never do without that delicious meat".

If you want to - potentially (potentially considering there is a good chance of your son to decide to live vegan, but also a chance he might not) - save your kid that, it's all in your hand. My personal impression is that people who eat meat normally do not deeply ponder the issue (because doing that would make stop eating it), whereas vegetarians and vegans do tend to give it more consideration. I do not really fear that your son, should he decide with 15 to start eating meat, will consider those years before lost years because he was bereaved the joy of munching true dead cow hamburgers and hot dogs and hold a grudge against you for it.

Pardon me, I certainly do not participate on the forum here in order to insult other people or make them think badly about things that they are doing, but this just sounds terribly wrong to me, as strongly opposed as possible to the other alternative, which would be giving your kid a good start by not spoiling him with dead animals.

Best regards,
Andy

[Peabrain]

Andy, glosoli started with this:


I plan to raise my son vegan. He's 6 months soon.

...and later said this:


When I said I don't want to force my lifestyle on him I meant when he's an adult.

I think maybe you've just misunderstood. I only think glosoli is referring to the choices that may come later in life, as a teenager, or an adult, who decides to explore the way the non-vegan world eats. I agree that it'd actually be quite good to have a (non-dangerous) adverse reaction, much like I did when I first tried smoking as a teenager (I was so sick I NEVER touched another cigarette), because it would reaffirm the detrimental effects of it, but I think she just wanted to make sure there was no chance of a serious health condition, because as yet, meat is not as taboo as drugs, and it is more likely that someone might try a burger than a line of coke.

I've told my teenaged son, that I love him, whatever he chooses to do, but will not GIVE him the meat/dairy/eggs he might sometimes want (he is a new vegan* and sometimes lets a small amount of milk into his diet). I think glosoli is much of the same thinking...


I want to teach my son about how food gets to his plate and lead him on the right path...

As you say, it's perfectly true that a vegan diet is the least potentially damaging one to give a child (not just in terms of dietary needs but psychological issues/ideals).

My mum (much as I love her, God rest her soul), was a vegetarian and raised me as a meat eater. I really wish she hadn't done that, so I relate to the strength of your feeling. I just think you've jumped to the wrong conclusion here.

* I do consider my son a vegan, as he has cut out 99% of the non-vegan food he eats, as well as actively researching vegan toiletry products etc. and is still in transition.

[Peabrain]

Incidentally, for clarification on my family situation, and maybe therefore my strong assertions on this thread;

My family were ALL non-vegan until a short time ago. Mostly because of blind ignorance (thinking meat was actually vital for health and "normal")... I'm a 3-month vegan (so obviously still very new)...

All of my children are being fed vegan diets, with the agreement of my non-vegan husband. The only one with any choice in the matter is my teenaged son who is nearly 16 and chooses what to buy from shops with his own money, or eat at his (die hard meat eater) dad's house, and sometimes buys chocolates with milk in (although I'm trying hard to find various veganchocolates/biscuits/deserts etc, with no milk to show him the alternatives and most of the time he does eat the vegan versions). He can technically choose to eat meat quite easily, and did at first, but has chosen, by himself, not to. In fact it was he, who started to consider becoming a vegetarian first, that started me thinking about it all in the first place.

My point being, that I do feel I benefit from having fresh memories of being non-vegan, and insight into, non-vegan/vegans living together and family members not eating the way we all wish in our hearts they would, and I reckon glosoli is thinking about whatever eventualities might occur down the line.

[Clueless Git]

It always opens my heart when I read here or on another forum about people who have never in their live ate meat because their parents raised them vegan or vegetarian. My impression is, that this must be one of the best gifts you could make to a child.

My kids think so. Yes.

Basicaly the gift is allowing your kids to decide if they ever want to do wrong. Not leaving them to sort out bad habits (you lumbered them with) if they ever want to do right, kinda thing.

I'd go as far as saying that is nothing less than protecting your kiddies innocence.

If that's not parental duty numero-uno then I have absolutely no idea what parental duty numero-uno is.

[Peabrain]

I agree, and as I say, I think that is just what glosoli always intended/meant.

[Andy_T]

Hmm, I may be simple (I most likely am), but I understood Glosoli's initial post to be a question whether she maybe needs to feed her vegan son some meat in order for him to be able to decide later whether he wants go live vegan or eat meat, because her brother told her that if he does not eat meat now, he will later not be able to eat it.

In that case, I would advise Glosoli NOT to feed her sone nonvegan food, even if it might force him to live as a vegan later (which it might in case of milk, because what humans do now - continuing to consume milk long after infancy - is quite unnatural, but allows a grown animal to continue to consume milk).

Best regards,
Andy

[Peabrain]

I was writing the below comment, before I saw your latest one Andy... So the first bit isn't directed at you - just the general readers and/or commenters of this particular thread. :)

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I think there's a lot of hair-splitting about a subject that's actually slightly different than the original post started with, festered's reply is perfect TBH...


It sounds like a load of b0llocks to me does that, and even if there's any truth in it, is probably not going to be a hospital trip job...
...Be realistic, she was asking a genuine, serious and valid question.



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Having said that, after reading your last comment, I would like to make one point;


...In that case, I would advise Glosoli NOT to feed her sone nonvegan food, even if it might force him to live as a vegan later (which it might in case of milk, because what humans do now - continuing to consume milk long after infancy - is quite unnatural, but allows a grown animal to continue to consume milk)...

Don't you think Andy, that even if glosoli was wondering whether to feed her son meat (which I still don't personally believe she was), that the above comments are preferable to these below?


...I understand that you might also not want to "force your views" on drug consumption, alcoholism and theft on your child, but I maybe would not try to do this by feeding him small doses of drugs and booze now and then and encouraging him to go shoplifting once in a while...