"Man with Colon Cancer Refuses Chemotherapy & Cures Himself with Vegan Diet"

[Korn]

"Man with Stage 3 Colon Cancer Refuses Chemotherapy & Cures Himself with Vegan Diet" (http://tv.greenmedinfo.com/man-with-stage-3-colon-cancer-refuses-chemotherapy-cures-himself-with-vegan-diet/)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1OyHanvUY28

[Astrid660]

interesting!

[The Mighty Bosh]

Nice find, It's a shame it did not work for Steve Jobs, R.I.P. (a vegan for 38 years, give or take, and also a veggie before that)

[Korn]

Steve Jobs said, during an Apple Event which found place several years before he died that "I used to be a vegetarian, but now I all eat all kinds of crap".

There are various discussions about Steve Jobs diet and cancer on internet, and even a YouTube-clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=81xnvgOlHaY) discussing why and when he got cancer. But I don't think anyone insists that eating vegan can cure all cancers or that vegans can't get cancer.

[Risker]

"cures himself with vegan diet "


Did he? I don't think that's a good thing to state.

[harpy]

I don't particularly like the tone of this but I think the argument re chemo vs surgery may have some validity http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/04/12/yet-another-misleading-alt-med-cancer-te/

[The Mighty Bosh]

Steve Jobs said, during an Apple Event which found place several years before he died that "I used to be a vegetarian, but now I all eat all kinds of crap".

There are various discussions about Steve Jobs diet and cancer on internet, and even a YouTube-clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=81xnvgOlHaY) discussing why and when he got cancer. But I don't think anyone insists that eating vegan can cure all cancers or that vegans can't get cancer.

Argh why does the Internet deceive me, I saw a tube on another forum declaring that Jobs was a lifelong Vegan, ah well just goes to show you can't believe everything you see

[Korn]

Did he? I don't think that's a good thing to state.

There's too little research on the link between consumption of animal products and cancer, and I think that individual, non-scientific statements like the one I posted above, along with otherm similar stories, will increase the chance that more scientific studies will be performed in the future.

Regarding the thread title - here's the link to the site where I found this story:
http://tv.greenmedinfo.com/man-with-stage-3-colon-cancer-refuses-chemotherapy-cures-himself-with-vegan-diet/

I have now added "quotes" and changed the title to the original title to make it clear that "Man with Stage 3 Colon Cancer Refuses Chemotherapy & Cures Himself with Vegan Diet" is a quote/a reference to someone else's statement.

Can anyone with cancer cure themselves by switching to a vegan diet?
If not, will switching to a vegan diet help at all?
And - would it be a good idea for non-vegans to reduce the intake of animal products (drastically) in order to reduce the risk for getting some of the health problems which are associated with consumption of animal products?

Some links:
20-30 types of cancer and animal products (eggs, fish, milk, meat) (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?27770-20-30-types-of-cancer-and-animal-products-(eggs-fish-milk-meat))
Can a Plant-Based Diet Cure Cancer? (http://www.oprah.com/health/Can-a-Plant-Based-Diet-Cure-Cancer)
When Vegans Get Cancer (http://www.theveganrd.com/2012/05/when-vegans-get-cancer.html)
A Vegan Diet (Hugely) Helpful Against Cancer (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/vegan-diet-cancer_b_2250052.html)
Vegans and Cancer: China Study 2 (http://yourdoctorsorders.com/2012/08/vegans-and-cancer-china-study-2/)
Forks Over Knives: Can a Plant Based Diet Reverse Disease? (http://herbalwater.typepad.com/ayalas_herbal_water/2011/06/forks-over-knives-can-a-plant-based-diet-reverse-disease.html)
Why Going Raw Cures Cancer, and what else can be done... (http://rawveganforever.blogspot.no/2008/02/why-going-raw-cures-cancer-and-what.html)
Did this grandfather, 78, really beat 'incurable' cancer just by changing his diet? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2204080/Grandfather-incurable-cancer-given-clear-swapping-red-meat-dairy-products-10-fruit-veg-day.html#ixzz2FBzYT8YY)
Vegan diet and cancer cures… quack quack (http://veganheath.info/vegan-diet-and-cancer)
Soy Linked with Cancer Article (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?13389-Soy-Linked-with-Cancer-Article&highlight=cancer)
TED Talk: You Can Starve Cancer With A Healthy Vegan Diet (http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/05/ted-talk-you-can-starve-cancer-with-a-healthy-vegan-diet.html)
vegan diet for cancer (http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,65741,0.htm)
Natural Cancer Cure: Woman Cures Breast Cancer with Vegan Diet (http://voices.yahoo.com/natural-cancer-cure-woman-cures-breast-cancer-with-1386785.html)
Vegan proteins may reduce risk of cancer, obesity, and cardiovascular disease by promoting increased glucagon activity. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10687887)
Cancer and animal products (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?18-Cancer-and-animal-products&highlight=cancer)
Dietary intervention strategies to modulate prostate cancer risk and prognosis. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19300265?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed _ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=10)
A very-low-fat vegan diet increases intake of protective dietary factors and decreases intake of pathogenic dietary factors. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18237581)
High B12 levels and increased cancer risk (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?16897-High-B12-levels-and-increased-cancer-risk&highlight=cancer)
Cancer Cure Through Diet Alone Not Such a Far Fetched Idea (http://voices.yahoo.com/cancer-cure-through-diet-alone-not-such-far-fetched-1963720.html?cat=51)
Eggs, cancer and mortality (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?19907-Eggs-cancer-and-mortality&highlight=cancer)
Can veganism reverse cancer? (http://talkmag.in/cms/people/item/733-can-veganism-reverse-cancer)
A Cure For Cancer? Eating A Plant-Based Diet (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/a-cure-for-cancer-eating_b_298282.html)
Can a Plant-Based Diet Cure Cancer? (http://prime.peta.org/2009/12/can-a-plant-based-diet-cure-cancer)
4 Cancers That a Vegetarian Diet Prevents
Study: Vegeterianism protects against several cancers -- but not all. (http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/cancer-vegetarian-47070104)
Professor T. Colin Campbell PhD on animal protein and cancer (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/content.php?141-Professor-T.-Colin-Campbell-PhD-on-animal-protein-and-cancer)
Vegetarian Diets and Cancer Risk (http://www.aicr.org/cancer-research-update/february_20_2013/cru_vegetarian_cancer.html)

[sunshineman]

Eat vegetarian also suffering from colon cancer. This kind of the happening of the disease is not caused by diet. Many times we only after it has happened will improve diet. Colorectal cancer (http://mountelizabeth.com.sg/en/Facilities-Services/Specialties-and-Specialised-Services/Robotic-Surgery-on-Colorectal-Cancer) painful because people can't eat a lot. But the human appetite and body need to decide the person must to eat some food. It is contradictory. So it is difficult to cure.

[micthemini]

Korn, and evryone really
I think for everyone of those 'vegan beats cancer' stories, you will find a corresponding 'meat/fish/eggs/cheese eater beats cancer' one.
And that's the difficulty really, they are all anecdotal and not really scientifically proven.
I think a lot of the beating cancer can be down to genetics, luck and having had the main cancer area removed. They (health people) sometimes use chemo as a back up to stop or limit spread, sometimes there is no spread. But bowel cancer is a bit of a tricky one, it's the UKs second highest killing cancer, it's a sneaky one if unfound, but if caught early enough, it's easily treatable. Which may be what has happened to the above man.

[Korn]

I think for everyone of those 'vegan beats cancer' stories, you will find a corresponding 'meat/fish/eggs/cheese eater beats cancer' one.
Hi micthemini, that looks like an assumption to me...

And that's the difficulty really, they are all anecdotal and not really scientifically proven.
...and that looks like a conclusion based on an assumption.

Of course animal products contain nutrients which may prevent/reduce cancer too. But the question is - where do these nutrients come from? Meat eating humans usually only eat plant eating animals, and nutrients in their bodies can come from either their diet, be synthesized in their bodies eg. by bacteria, or are a result of of other sources like eg. vitamin D.

So if humans need eg. vitamin D. We can also increase our vitamin D levels through exposure to sunlight, or we can eat animals which are exposed to sunlight. Or, to use B12 as an example: we have in a highly sterilized lifestyle, and can compensate for the low exposure to natural, good bacteria (and the high exposure to anti-B12 factors) by eating animals - or choose other solutions, as discussed in our many B12 threads. The there's vitamin K1 and K2. K2 can reduce liver cancer, and other studies are looking into cancer preventing effects of K2 as well. Humans and other mammals mammals can synthesize K2 MK-4 from K1, but meat eaters will get K2 from animal products - which could be important for them, since they have a lower intake of K1 than us.

There's of course no obvious and simple way to cure all cancers. You talk about statements not being scientifically proven, and then present an unscientific assumption that there are equally many stories backing up the idea mat eaters beats cancer as there are stories about vegans beating cancer. Well, that would suggest that the effect of a vegan diet is much better than the effect of a standard diet, because there are a lot more meat eaters out there than vegans. But the only way to look at this scientifically right now is to filter away all fanatical assumptions in both sides of the discussion, and look at each of the studies which find a link between animal product consumption and cancer, and see if any of them makes sense. The most common mistake in all pseudo-scientific statements is probably failing to take so called spurious relationships into consideration.

And again, one also have to look at the fact that plant herbivorous animals also get their nutrients from 'something'. There was a study some years ago 'proving' that eating meat was healthy (http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?2551-Children-Harmed-by-Vegan-Diets&p=38583&viewfull=1#post38583), but it was soon revealed that the main person by the study was funded by the meat industry and performed on kids who were malnuourished. Of course they would get more nutrients in their bodies if they ate something containing nutrients, but that doesn't prove that meat is good for kids.

Of course the story in the clip in the first post of this thread doesn't prove anything either, and of course meat eaters with cancer sometimes get rid of their disease as well. But what's most 'scientific' - your claim about all these studies being non-scientific, or eg. this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929) new report, covering almost 70,000 people, suggesting that "vegan diets showed statistically significant protection for overall cancer incidence"?

[micthemini]

Hi Korn
I was maybe being assumptive but the main video does not give any scientific links and my 'bad science' brain flipped into gear.
I also should have put some links etc up to support my argument, my fault, bit rushed last night, sorry
The link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929) you gave was very interesting and I've read the full article, not just the abstract. Interesting that in sex specific cancers, diet makes not much significant different, but maybe male vegans do a little better though not statistically significantly.
The article said that the people with cancer were, on average, smokers with high BMI, 59yrs old. The high BMI and smoking would also have an affect on the cancer.
The other thing that I noticed which would skew the results slightly, was that the cohorts were Seventh Day Adventists, who are not regular meat eaters. I found this a bit of a weird thing to run a trial on as I would have thought that you should have included some heavy meat eaters just to make the results not so skewed. It would then show in favour of vegans.
And one other noticeable thing was semi-vegetarians seemed to come out of this very well with less persons at risk and less incidents (table 4) in all cancers studied bar Female cancers. But what is a semi-vegetarian? The study says it's this - 'semi-vegetarians ate red meat, poultry, fish 1 per month to 1 per week, and eggs or dairy at any level;'
So really, veganism isn't as good as semi-vegetarianism (which to my mind is a made up thing, that just an irregular meat/fish eater).
And the cohort was only American.
As for funding, isn't that why the only source of calcium that's good for us is diary so says the dairy industry, well they would - but it's not, as this (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR17/wtrank/sr17w301.pdf) pdf shows, treacle, kale, etc are much better.
And I could try to post some links about meat eating being good, but google scholar is being a right pain. There are some research papers about eating meat from grass fed animals, as opposed to what I would call crap food, or what would be described by the meat industry as processed, stuff like salami, sausages, burgers etc. All the foodstuff with not much meat in them and lots of additives and, well, rubbish!
I am always sceptical about all trials until I've found out the funding, cohort size, timescale (this is really important on a medical trial I think) and I do like to read the full article as well.
And you're right, there is no obvious or simple way to cure cancer. I would say that eating a diet without animal products in it is the best way to avoid cancer, but having had part of my lower bowel removed (pre-cancerous) I'm a bit sceptical as to whether diet helps or not. Was I just the unlucky one - yes, I think so, and in some ways I'm very lucky as mine got found before I got cancer, so the operation saved my life. Glass very half full.
It's good to debate, I like my science, and doing research. Wish I had more time and could do more studying.

[Mymblesdaughter]

Micthemini have you read the China Study? It's really interesting and has lots of scientific research and data if you are interested in that sort of thing.

[micthemini]

Micthemini have you read the China Study? It's really interesting and has lots of scientific research and data if you are interested in that sort of thing.
Hi Mymblesdaughter
Sorry for the late reply, I've been a little unwell this week, and I'm now in catch-up mode.
I haven't read the China Study, just read reviews and extracts from it. I had read, somewhere, sometime ago, that some of the data was flawed, but in all scientific studies somewhere along the lines, data is flawed, or at least, someone thinks so (does that make sense, I know what I mean but putting it into words...).
Anyway, I will make an effort to get it and read it.