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dreama
Mar 15th, 2005, 05:12 PM
I consider myself vegan and I'm totally against animal experiments but I do take a variety of drugs that I need for my well being. They may or may not be tested on animals as I've taken thyroine tablets since I was about 8 months old. I also have taken anti epeleptic drugs since I was 13 so they are also been on the market for a long time although they may once have been tested on animals before they were tested on people which is something that happens to all drugs of course. I also take pain killers when I need them. When my pets are sick they are also given drugs that may have been tested on animals too.

My justification for taking medicine is that I need them and I really can't help the fact that they may have been tested on animals. I'm sure it did nothing but waste money and not taking these drugs won't bring the animals back.

When arguing with someone in favor of animal research I was called a hypocrite for taking medicine. This has bothered me since as there is no way I can not take medicine without my health suffering as a result.

What do other vegans think of this? Can you get strong pain killers that are NOT tested on animals?

Artichoke47
Mar 15th, 2005, 06:04 PM
No, you are not a hypocrite. It is not your fault that people can't figure out for themselves that animal research is unnecessary, cruel, and unethical. Being a hypocrite would be knowing that there is an alternative available that wasn't tested on animals and buying the animal-tested one just because it was cheaper.

PinkFluffyCloud
Mar 15th, 2005, 06:32 PM
I don't beleive you are a hypocrite, and I think it's pretty nasty of people to say you are. :mad:
In any case, I'm afraid that almost everything, and/or it's ingredients, including water and most 'alternative remedies' have been animal-tested at some point in time, so are you any more hypocritical than the rest of us??? :confused:
Personally I avoid all drugs, but mainly because I hate their possible side-effects, and do not trust animal research, but obviously if you are ill you have to be sensible for the sake of your health. :rolleyes:

feline01
Mar 15th, 2005, 06:35 PM
I doubt there are any prescription medications that are not tested on animals. I don't think you're a hypocrite, I believe the concept of veganism is about doing the least harm which you are. My husband takes medicine that keeps him alive, not only was is most likely tested on animals, one is only available in a gelatin capsule. I don't consider him a hypocrite either, he made an effort to see if he could take alternative medications but could not.

You do more for animals remaining alive and able to function.

John
Mar 15th, 2005, 08:26 PM
Vegans avoid animal products as far as is practical. There is an alternative to cruelty-derived food and clothing, but not medicine. If you are sick then you must take medicine.

snaffler
Mar 16th, 2005, 10:05 AM
Its like the others have said you are doing all you practically can to keep away from animal related products but also we want to see you alive and well and healthy we need more vegans in the world.

Like PFC said its wicked of people to get on soap box and say you say "you are wrong" just do what you can and stay healthy.

Please dont beat yourself up web sites like this are here to support people not give them hell.

All the best

Snaff :)

spo
Mar 16th, 2005, 10:45 AM
I agree with everyone here. None of us are hypocrites for taking medicine for serious health conditions.
I am an Asthmatic and am Hypothyroid, and I take the drugs necessary to keep me from suffocating or having no Thyroid function. I should mention that I am a Nurse, married to a Physician, and we both were able to successfully avoid any animal experimentation during our educations by taking a strident stance against it. In addition, we both vocally, and otherwise, try to educate everyone on the absolute lack of necessity for the use of animal models in human drug/treatment regimens.
I've noticed that meat-eaters and those indifferent, or worse, to animal suffering often engage in totally specious arguments when trying to belittle the animal-rights issue. But, we must not let that stop our protests, or get us down and depressed.
I think if we, as Vegans, continue to live our ethics and speak up for animals when we can, then we are NOT hypocritical -- quite the contrary!

Love
Mar 16th, 2005, 12:24 PM
Please DON'T regard yourself as a hypocrite!
I have heard an inspiring speaker from the Dr Hadwen Trust(they fund raise to fund research into alternative methods for medical research other than animal testing)speak many times at many vegan festivals about how he has to take medication that is inevitably tested on animals and how,if he did'nt,he would be compromising his health and making himself less healthy and therefore less strong to fight the fight againat animal testing.Hope this reassures you!
With love from Love.XXX.

dreama
Mar 16th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Thanks very much for your replies. Made me feel a lot better.

The sick/disabled get used a lot when people raise money for experiment funding charities. As a group we would benifit most if animal experiments were to stop.

I would pay a lot if I could get medicine that had been tested by alternative means.

thecatspajamas1
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:45 PM
Do you not use medicines so that you don't support the drug companies because they test on animals?

I am on antidepressants, and I tried to go off them for awhile, because I no longer wanted to be supporting the drug companies and I wanted to be truly vegan in that aspect. I tried to deal with things homeopathically, with yoga and eating healthier. But I was doing terrible, and I had to go back on the medicine because everyday I thought about suicide all day long and would cry a few times a day and it was terrible. So I'm back on the medicines now, but I feel like a failure for not being able to stay off them. But it kind of balances out, because when I'm mentally stable I have energy and I can be active in animal rights, but when I'm down I have no motivation for activism. So it seems like it's also important for the animals that I do stay on the meds.

Does this make me not really vegan? Do you use medicines, or have any of you been in a situation like this?

Elis
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:56 PM
Oh dear, that sounds incredibly tough to go through! I don't care what anybody else says, but letting yourself remain suicidal by not taking the medicine cannot be a good thing. You have a right to be healthy and if that is impossible without taking this one medicine then do it. Hopefully there will be a better solution soon, or maybe one day even a new drug company that doesn't test on animals, but until then do not beat yourself up for staying alive. Please. You deserve better.

Mr Flibble
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:21 PM
Does this make me not really vegan? Do you use medicines, or have any of you been in a situation like this?

Some people would call you unvegan, others would not. Everyone has a line to which they are willing to go to, some are more extreme than others, but i've yet to meet a vegan who has completely removed the use of all animal products from their life or completely stopped killing all animals/insects. I dread to think how many ants I've stepped on in the last week. I guess I could check before I take every step, but I guess that's my level of selfishness, the point at which I just have to get on with my life. Personally my level when it comes to drugs is that I abstain from recreational drugs and drugs for minor illnesses (such as headaches which will go away with time) that may involve animals in the production of (whether testing or ingrediants). For prescription drugs that I am told I have to take my medical professionals I always ask if a vegan alternative is available. I have sucessfully found ones in the past having been told that none are available (what they actually meant is none on the national health service). I've also been in hospital before needing stitches in my chin and gone with anasthetic of unknown origin - I needed the stitches and I'm just not hardcore enough to go without pain releif. Currently I'm happy to be on no medication and haven't been on any long term prescription medicines for years. This is something I'm mindful of and thankful for (I realised it's best to appreciate things whilst I still have them). If i found myself in a situation like yours however then it would be a choice I'd have to make. As far as being affraid of people judging you any less vegan or not, then I guess the question is why are you someone that is classified as a vegan? If you're just in it for the classification then there's something very wrong going on. What matters is your choice.

Northchild
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:35 PM
I'm bipolar, and on four different medications: Remeron (anti-depressant), lithium (anti-manic), Abilify (anti-psychotic), and Levoxyl (for hypothyroidism caused by lithium). It's been proven over the course of many years that I literally cannot live without these medicines, and therefore I don't feel guilty about taking them.

Kumem
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:49 PM
Do you not use medicines so that you don't support the drug companies because they test on animals?

I am on antidepressants, and I tried to go off them for awhile, because I no longer wanted to be supporting the drug companies and I wanted to be truly vegan in that aspect. I tried to deal with things homeopathically, with yoga and eating healthier. But I was doing terrible, and I had to go back on the medicine because everyday I thought about suicide all day long and would cry a few times a day and it was terrible. So I'm back on the medicines now, but I feel like a failure for not being able to stay off them. But it kind of balances out, because when I'm mentally stable I have energy and I can be active in animal rights, but when I'm down I have no motivation for activism. So it seems like it's also important for the animals that I do stay on the meds.

Does this make me not really vegan? Do you use medicines, or have any of you been in a situation like this?

The fact that you have tried to come off them suggests that you feel bad about taking them and you shouldn't feel bad. If people had not tested on animals for so long and put their efforts into finding drugs that do not require animal testing, then you would not face this dilemma, that's not your fault.

eve
Oct 31st, 2005, 07:18 AM
Cats PJs: veganism is a philosophy and lifestyle of compassion and reverence for life. It does not require vegans to be heroes or martyrs and sacrifice our mental or physical health for our beliefs. Do read Jo Stepaniak's Q&A where she answers your question: http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qaprescriptions.htm

Eliana
Oct 31st, 2005, 07:43 AM
No, you're not an hypocrite at all. Anyway those animals are dead and you cannot make them resurrect. There's nothing that you can do for the past. As in 'Declaration of War' say: it would be like refusing to walk on certain streets because some slaves built them.
Animals need you alive to fight for them.

One thing that we can do when we MUST take tested medications, is looking for generic brands, when they exist. This way we won't implement animal research.

Ciao,
Eliana :)

eve
Oct 31st, 2005, 07:47 AM
All medications are originally tested on animals, and if you don't need medications now, you may one day. Eliana is right, none of us is a hypocrite for taking medicine for serious health conditions.

Hemlock
Oct 31st, 2005, 09:17 AM
It's a personal choice, if you are a diabetic on insulin you would probably die without the drugs. Those of us who do take drugs of any kind can only work towards the day when our drugs are tested humanely but for some conditions you have no choice but to take the drugs. i know of very few people who would choose death over taking drugs that have at some point been tested on animals.

However, I have inflammatory arthritis and osteoarthritis which is thought to have been triggered by the four courses of hepatitis B injections I had (the first 3 didn't "take")as a pre-requisite for working for the NHS. The choice of treatment is steroid injections and drugs like methotrexate. So I had a choice, let the disease kill me or die (eventually) of side effects of drugs used to slow the course of the disease!!!
I decided not to take any of the drugs, switched our diet to organic vegan, lost 2.5 stone, taken up exercise and have 1-2 more stone to lose. Since going vegan and losing weight I have not had any further episodes of joint swelling or pain and don't need to take pain killer at all. I just ignore the minor aches.
My GP thinks I am an uniformed hippy but I'm a trained nurse and doing a science degree. I think their treatments and dietary advice are out of the ark. Time will tell who is right, in the meantime I am fit and well, drug free and have had no more problems!

SarahM
Dec 30th, 2005, 07:36 PM
No, you are not a hypocrite. It is not your fault that people can't figure out for themselves that animal research is unnecessary, cruel, and unethical. Being a hypocrite would be knowing that there is an alternative available that wasn't tested on animals and buying the animal-tested one just because it was cheaper.

that's exactly what i said to a girl on my other forum! we should not have to suffer or do w/o things we need because the scientific community is so largely stupid in such respects.

it seriously bugs me when people point out where i am not completely vegan (as in thinks like medicine) - those who point such things out are usually omni's who don't think of it at all except to harass me. we do as much as we can, and that is certainly more than most!

qwaychou
Dec 31st, 2005, 04:39 AM
Thanks for this thread, i felt bad about the medicines I was taking. Seeing these replies does help. It also may help to remember, that (from my very new standpoint) vegans believe in causing no harm to any animal. Well, we are animals too. I think we are doing man and animal kind a great service by choosing a healthier lifestyle and advocating a cruelty free world. And it betters us as well. I think we would be doing ourselves and our cause a disservice if we were to suffer and neglect ourselves as well.
Thanks for listening.

scorpy
Dec 31st, 2005, 08:29 AM
Do what you have to to stay alive! Just make sure not to rant like hell about vegetarianism or veganism when it's not necessary. It's easier that way. Ranting and raving doesn't really help. I'm not saying you do that! I have seen people do that and then the same people post some "interesting" replies on this one.

mophoto
Dec 31st, 2005, 08:45 AM
a few months after i went vegan i finally got off prozac- for good. i love it. i am going on a cruise in 2 days and i haven't had a bathing suit in 5 years (got rather large) today my mom dragged me to the mall. i literally started balling my eyes out in Nordstrom's, it was wonderful. finding a bathing suit for a fat girl in the middle of winter is hard! being off prozac is one of the most liberating feelings, next to veganism!

sorry to get off track- since going vegan i have had way less physical and mental problems. i am still hooked on klonipin:( but if you haven't stopped your meds since going vegan i would give it a try. i am not saying a healthy diet is a cure all but it helped me (i went off Prozac a few years ago and freaked out). i don't have as many sinus problems and for some bizarre reason my heel spur is gone. i had massive heel pain for about 6 months and now it just disappeared.

i wouldn't condone going off meds for really serious mental or physical problems but maybe give alternatives a try. my 85 year old grandma has leukemia and the only thing that keeps her white blood cell count down is acupuncture. her doctors were quite surprised. she is just a "normal" grandma and it is so wonderful that she tried acupuncture. she recommended it to my aunt for her migraines and my other grandma for her mystery cough and they are both doing much better. while i don't think going off meds is good for everyone- i think sometimes there are alternatives. and also i would never judge anyone who is on medication. that seems to be the agreement here too. that's good!

it's late and i had a few beers so i apologize for this long post:D

Seaside
Dec 31st, 2005, 09:45 AM
This was posted in another thread, and I think it is worth spreading around:

...compassion does not become hypocritical just because it canít be practiced absolutely. :)

mophoto
Dec 31st, 2005, 09:59 AM
great quote- it will come i handy when others try to start idiotic arguments with me, just for arguments sake

i have to compromise on some things because it is in my best interest- i don't mean food- but using things such as animal hair paint brushes that i already own (won't by new ones) and taking my addictive drug!

herbwormwood
Dec 31st, 2005, 01:59 PM
Vegans avoid animal products as far as is practical. There is an alternative to cruelty-derived food and clothing, but not medicine. If you are sick then you must take medicine.

I agree with this. No, you are not a hypocrite for taking medications that keep you alive. If there was a choice between taking a vegan version or a non vegan one, you would choose the vegan one. As it is, your choice is between taking the medications or possibly dying.