Organic – or not?

[FR]

I am totally a "have not". I still find a way to buy organic. I don’t buy as many clothing items as I would like as a result, but it is worth it to me. Although price wise, it is only slightly more, and sometimes evenly priced as the conventional stuff here (at certain stores).

[piggy]

If I bought organic I probably would have to reduce our current fruit and veg consumption by half to afford it. My husband is going for a better job so hopefully soon I'll be able to afford organic but for some people just being able to afford fruit and veg at all is a struggle. Untill organic is more readlily available it remain something for the 'haves' as opposed to the 'have nots'

i hear you...take me, for example. last summer i lived off basically no money, so i never had any fresh veggies or fruit. i ate the cheapest stuff i could find, ie, dry lentils, beans n chickpeas, and rice, all of which i had stocked up on during the winter.
eh, and that's why this is the first time i've been to the organic thread:)
Anyway, same thing happening right now..my MONEY's late in getting to me..as usual :mad:

[DianeVegan]

I am saddened to hear that anyone truly cannot afford organic produce. I hope this becomes less common in the near future. Here in the U.S. purchasing organic is the ONLY way to insure that we are not consuming the GMO's that were introduced into our food supply starting in 1996 (despite public desire to have them labeled).

When I was younger (but also less informed) I would have had a difficult time seeing the value or affordability of organic products. At this point in my life I would definitely give up some unnecessary items to eat organic - but that's easy to say considering that I am not faced with the choice.

For those of us who can afford it, I hope we will all continue to support local and organic farmers so that the price and availability of produce will benefit everyone.

[Roxy]

I have read that these days, farmers need three times as many chemicals than they did 40 years ago, to kill of the same insects that were "pests" then. This is because the insects are evolving to become increasingly immune to these pesticides. Each year, 3 million tons of farm chemicals are applied to the surface of our earth. That's a lot!!!

Also the chemicals that are used in conventional farming methods, just don't go onto the plants and the ground. They evaporate, and come back to earth in the rain and snowflakes. The wind carries them into our living spaces, green belts, parks, forrests and even organic farms :( They are absorbed into the ground and become part of our groundwater and of course, they run off, and end up in our lakes, rivers and oceans.

And here's a big one: farm chemicals kill off as many as 67 million American birds each year :(

Thank you to Jane Goodall for this information. I am currently reading her book "Harvest for Hope".

These reasons alone are enough to make me want to eat organic as much as I can.

[DianeVegan]

I just read a review on her book, Roxy. Let me know if it's worth reading. Another book (from the 1990's) entitled "Empty Harvest" also has some great information about what conventional farming has done to the health of the environment and the soil.

[Roxy]

So far it's a great book, Diane. She tells things in a very factual manner, not in a preaching way, if you know what I mean. What I also love, is that she also has many interesting stories to tell from her own experiences in her own life.

I'll give you a better review when I've finished it, though.

[VeganMoominGirl]

I'd say we probably count as "have nots" as my partner is currently off work due to illness (has been for nearly two years now :( ). My work is self-employed and pretty sporadic (I'm a doula) We're on a number of benefits which means we *really* have to be careful. We get a weekly organic delivery box of fresh, local fruit and veg and buy almost everything else we eat organic. However, we don't eat out often, or buy new clothes EVER (although this is as much because we want to avoid sweatshop/unethical practises in clothing manufacture/distribution as anything else). Organic is more expensive absolutely, but I find that as we don't have to buy expensive things like MEAT (grrrrrr), we're able to budget pretty well. We also don't buy any convenience food as I find this is incredibly expensive too, not to mention icky :D Making sacrifices in other areas of our lives (like only using the minimum number of cosmetics, making homemade cleaning products etc) is worth it to buy organic produce, its healthier, AND better for the environment. Everybody wins :D "Organic" does seem to have a bit of "luxury" "faddish" following, and I know my parents for one, do wonder how we afford to buy organic. This really pisses me off, but in the long run, organic the only sustainable option.
Hannah

[chickendude]

Anyone complaining about not being able to purchase organic goods, just consider this: if you can afford just one apple, you are essentially purchasing an entire tree. All you need do is plant the seeds of the fruit and you've got plenty of fruit (in a few years, of course) to sustain you! However, if you don't have a yard large enough to plant an entire apple tree, you can make smaller "victory gardens" in your window sills with strawberries or beans or other smaller fruits and vegetables. :)

[ravenfire]

I would definitely be a have-not. I don't work due to illness and my husband waits tables for $2.13/hr+tips. We just make sacrifices in other places. We never go out to eat and only buy new clothes when they are absolutely needed (and even then it's from the thrift shop). I make all of my own cleaners so all I have to buy to cleaning my entire house is a bottle of vinegar, a bottle of peroxide and a box of baking soda (less than $5.00 will carry you for quite a while). For entertainment we go to the local second-run theater which is $1.00 per person and $.50 on Tuesdays. We keep our electric/gas bill as low as possible by wearing sweats and using warm blankets in the winter and using fans in the summer. It takes a bit of working but we always eat good, whole organic foods. We also very rarely buy pre-packaged vegan foods (like soy products) as they are very expensive.

[DianeVegan]

Ravenfire, you pretty much just described my upbringing. We were broke but my mother prioritized in a way that made us aware of how important food is yet unaware of how financially strapped we were. You are an inspiration to those on a limited budget.

[ravenfire]

Ravenfire, you pretty much just described my upbringing. We were broke but my mother prioritized in a way that made us aware of how important food is yet unaware of how financially strapped we were. You are an inspiration to those on a limited budget.

Aww, thank you. You made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :) .

[wave2wave]

have you guys seen safeways organic line? its mostly packaged stuff but it makes the part of my mind that thrives on conspiracy theorys act up. has the fda lowered there standards? are we being led to think were actually buying organic but they mean somthing else. i dont trust it. or should i?

also, i asked a friend why she ate organic and she said, very matter of factly, "because im worth it"
thats a pretty damn good excuse.
I've tried safeway's organic line which has been encouraged by dollar off coupons and promotional sales. I really like the juice they have; grape is my current favorite. I sometimes buy their frozen spinach and drizzle some oil on it. For the most part though, I buy organic at specialty stores.

[Korn]

Yet another example of organic plants being healthier than non-organic plants...:


Strawberries Curb Cancer Cell Growth; Organic Berries Called Best. (http://newsletter.vitalchoice.com/e_article000563607.cfm?x=b78PMK2,b1kJpvRw)

Antioxidant levels and inhibition of cancer cell proliferation in vitro by extracts from organically and conventionally cultivated strawberries. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16478244&dopt=Abstract)

[Korn]

...and here's another one, from http://www.nutritionadvocate.com/story/newsbrief3.html



French researchers observed in a recent study, that fresh, organic tomatoes had higher vitamin C, carotenoids, and polyphenol contents (except for chlorogenic acid) than conventional tomatoes.

Organic tomato purees were also found to have higher concentrations of vitamin C and polyphenols.

[DonQuinoa]

The Nutritionist says

If you are having problems paying the extra for organic the most important are the wee things.

EG rice and grains and seeds as she says there is a greater ratio of outside to inside on say a rice grain compared with say a mango.

There is a risk she just made that up though.

I did hear that root vegetables are prone to sucking stuff out of the ground so if there are lots of chemicals in there they'll sook them all up like an oil filter on a car.

I'm not even going to tell you about the brocolli.

[Haniska]

http://www.deliciousorganics.com/Controversies/toptobuyorg.htm

Top Produce to Buy Organic (http://www.deliciousorganics.com/Controversies/whyorganic.htm)

Latest list of foods highly contaminated with pesticides.
Therefore this is a list of the produce we should ALWAYS buy organic or skip altogether.


FRUIT VEGETABLES

Strawberries (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR20A14&) - the most pesticide laden food of all and so scrumptious and not easy to wash because they are small and sweet, like Raspberries, so choose organic to be safe and keep your family safe
Raspberries (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=20A13&)
Apples (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR20N01&)
Grapes (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR20A09&)(& therefore
Raisins and
Juice! - many kinds of juices have Grape Juice in them)
Peaches (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR21G13&)
Nectarines (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR21G07&)
Apricots (http://www.kidsorganics.com/10%20Most%20Important%20Foods%20to%20Eat%20Organic .htm#most)
Pears (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR20N03&)
Cherries (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR21G03&)
Lemons (http://www.deliciousorganics.com/recipes/eatingwellclip.htm)- especially if zesting, should definitely use organic
Limes (http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/press_releases/pesticides_still_in_apples.html)
Bananas (http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc.mhtml?i=54-55&s=organic) - heavy chemicals for the trip to America including Thiabendazole which Damages the Brain and Nervous System. Especially troubling since this is the first food we can feed our babies!
Kiwis (http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc.mhtml?i=54-55&s=organic)
Pineapple (http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/pn48/pn48p8.htm) depending from where
Cantaloupe (http://www.landofvos.com/articles/kitchen3.html) from Mexico
Tomatoes (http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/quicklist-detail.asp?Main_ID=241) - yes, they're a fruit





Potatoes (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR25J06&)
Corn - (http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc.mhtml?i=54-55&s=organic) kids love it and so do bugs plus most corn is now genetically modified (http://www.deliciousorganics.com/Controversies/GMFOODS.htm)! Many products contain corn syrup too so choose organic when you can for those items as well.
Celery (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR24T11&)
Cucumbers (http://www.kidsorganics.com/10%20Most%20Important%20Foods%20to%20Eat%20Organic .htm#most)
Spinach (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR24T25&)
Lettuce (http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/press_releases/pesticides_still_in_apples.html)
Green & Red Bell Peppers (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR24F07&)
Lettuce (http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/pn53/pn53p21.htm) - some more than others
Hot Peppers (http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=24F08&)
Green Beans (http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc.mhtml?i=54-55&s=organic) - Acephate, Benomyl, Chlorothalonil, Methamidophos - Damages Brain and Nervous System, Cause Birth Defects
Winter or Hard Squash (http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/quicklist-detail.asp?Main_ID=241)

Also important to buy organic:

Rice (http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc.mhtml?i=54-55&s=organic) - loaded with pesticides!
Oats (http://www.loe.org/favorites/foods.htm)- read those cereal boxes! (http://www.loe.org/favorites/foods.htm)
Baby Foods (http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc.mhtml?i=54-55&s=organic)! - babies are particularly sensitive to pesticides to make your own or go Organic!
Foods that are GE like Corn - there are more pesticides on genetically engineered foods so avoid GMO Foods (http://www.deliciousorganics.com/Controversies/GMFOODS.htm)

*edited to remove animal foods*

[Tigerlily]

I can't get over half of those things in organic around here.

[Limey]

:( I like to buy my apples in a bag and I get a whole bunch for only $3.99 or something. If I buy them organic, they are usually $3-something per pound! Boo.

[Haniska]

They say apples and carrots are the worst for pesticides. And cotton.

[Tigerlily]

Potatoes are pretty bad too. A ton of pesticides and chemical fertilizers are used.

[Limey]

One of my grandmother's friends grew up on a farm where pesticides were used and she's sick now. Has black gunk coming out of her eyes when they water and out of her nose when it gets runny and stuff. She's got plenty of other issues, as well, but those are the ones that stick out to me because it grosses me out.

[Haniska]

Wow Limey, is that the reason?

[Limey]

Yeah. Well, she was clearly exposed to pesticides a ridiculous amount more than the average person. :( Poor thing. She's had a hard life and is such a sweet, hardworking woman.

[mophoto]

how funny (not really)- i just read in my local paper the other day that bananas are somewhat safe to eat when not gown organic.. i hate the macomb daily!!

thanks for the info:)

[Soul Rebel]

One of my wife's friends is tying to convience her husband to buy organic products instead of the non-organic stuff they buy now. They aren't vegetarian. Does anyone have any good info on the benefits of organic produce for example over "regular" produce that I could give her. I know in either the The Food Revolution or Diet for a new america Robbins gave percentages of how much more nutrients were in organic foods, but I can't find the chart.